Game Thread (7/15/2022): Brewers (Woodruff) at Giants (Wood) - 9:15 PM CDT

[Pugger]

I stayed up for this??

[KeithStone53151]

Dear God CC you absolute moron. Literally threw that game in the toilet. Keep playing checkers my dawg....

[nate82]

That is all on Hader. Probably should have pitched someone else.

[Pugger]

Hader gives up 3 HRs in the ninth.  Hader is toast IMO.

[rondoman]

July 3:  1.05 ERA

July 15:  4.50 ERA

[folly412]

Hader now has a 4.50 ERA on the season.  ?

[Brewcrew82]

Terrible loss. No other way around it. Devin is the closer now. 

[bucks2281]

Really one of the worst innings from a relief pitcher I have ever seen in all my years watching baseball. Absolutely atrocious. 

[Pugger]

Just now, Brewcrew82 said:

Terrible loss. No other way around it. Devin is the closer now. 

But will CC see it?

[KeithStone53151]

Just now, Pugger said:

Hader gives up 3 HRs in the ninth.  Hader is toast IMO.

You'd think by the second hr, it was obvious he didn't have it. Hader takes the L but shame on CC for letting him keep throwing like he did. Why even get suter up if you aren't gonna use him there? I swear this guy is getting worse by the day...

[tonyei31]

Hader is tipping so bad.  He is elongating his stretch on offspeed pitches.  Shortening on fastballs.  Any hitter can pick up on it.  This was not present for most of the season.  If I can see this on the TV no doubt pro hitters have seen it on film.  

[pitchleague]

That was pretty putrid.  And pretty amazing, at the same time.

Hader needs a rest.  Hader also needs a serious mental break.  He's had "nothing" on any of his pitches for over a week now.

Ugh. 

Luckily, I'm on Pacific time, so this was just a "late night" for me right before bed.  But still . . .

 

[Pugger]

1 minute ago, tonyei31 said:

Hader is tipping so bad.  He is elongating his stretch on offspeed pitches.  Shortening on fastballs.  Any hitter can pick up on it.  This was not present for most of the season.  If I can see this on the TV no doubt pro hitters have seen it on film.  

One would think the pitching coach would see this.

[treego14]

Hader doesn't deserve to be an all-star ... fitting he will not be there ... sad ... hope he can turn it around ... BUT let him do it in middle relief in low leverage situations for awhile to earn the coaching staff's trust.

[Brewcrew82]

Something is way off with Hader. Is it the new baby? I hate to say, it but his struggles do coincide pretty closely with that. Given that he's chosen to skip the all-star game, his mind may be elsewhere right now. 

Thankfully, we have another dominant reliever in Devin to pick up the slack. And Hoby, Gott, and Gustave have been good, too. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

This post isn't about Hader, the failure there was obvious. I'd just like to point out something that will probably be overlooked, and understandably so.

Since we took the 5-2 lead, our ABs were absolutely atrocious. It was almost as if we figured we had enough runs & went to the plate with our Helmets, bats & batting gloves but left our brains in the dugout. We shouldn't have needed any more runs but boy was it obvious.

[tonyei31]

4 minutes ago, Pugger said:

One would think the pitching coach would see this.

Seeing and application are different.  No doubt Hook sees this.  I think that was part of the mound visits.  The good news for Hader is it appears to just be timing on the tip.  

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 minute ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Something is way off with Hader. Is it the new baby? I hate to say, it but his struggles do coincide pretty closely with that. Given that he's chosen to skip the all-star game, his mind may be elsewhere right now. 

Thankfully, we have another dominant reliever in Devin to pick up the slack. And Hoby, Gott, and Gustave have been good, too. 

It's a hell of a coincidence if that isn't it. I suspect you're correct.

[CdrbrgMark]

This is ALL on CC, the POS doesn't have clue what he's doing anymore. I'm twice as sure as I was before that he should be GONE!!

[Warning Track Power]

4 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

This post isn't about Hader, the failure there was obvious. I'd just like to point out something that will probably be overlooked, and understandably so.

Since we took the 5-2 lead, our ABs were absolutely atrocious. It was almost as if we figured we had enough runs & went to the plate with our Helmets, bats & batting gloves but left our brains in the dugout. We shouldn't have needed any more runs but boy was it obvious.

Story of Counsell’s life as manager. Love him as a guy but this team’s constant inability to hit is a reflection of his lack of killer instinct and crap coaching. He’s becoming more Mike McCarthy every year. 

[HarveysWBs]

It’s an unbelievably bad stretch of ball for Hader, obviously.  As others have said before, Counsell has become much more reticent to mix things up in the bullpen pecking order, and I’ve always figured that was largely because Hader has expressed a strong preference for a defined role.  Until this month, that has worked out well for all involved.  Now?  Maybe not so much.

It’s obvious that he isn’t right.  He’s got a bunch of stuff going on off the field, and who knows what complications that may or may not involve.  If that’s the case, he needs time to work it out, and so taking the next week off may be a good start.  Maybe it’s mechanical, and so again, a week to get the brain trust and Hader working through some tape could help, too.

Not to state the obvious, but Hader suddenly losing his mojo and being unable to get it back would not only be a horrendous blow to the team’s chances for this season, but would be a disaster for the franchise.  By most accounts, the decision has been made to keep Hader in the face of trade interest on a seemingly yearly basis.  The assumption—which made a lot of sense, and I’m not second-guessing it—was that Hader would continue to be one of the best relievers in the game, and when he became too expensive, would net a haul of talent that would help sustain the team for years to come.  If that bet ends up going bust, it could arguably be as bad as Yelich never returning to All-star status amidst his franchise-altering deal.

Still, it’s only a bad couple of weeks, but it’s so bad, the mind begins wandering to worst-case scenario. At least, mine does…

[Jim French Stepstool]

Knebel had the bad stretch in 2018, was sent down for essentially a mental break & came out of it with flying colors. The good news is this is nothing physical. Still serious because of the nature of his role. The break is coming at a good time for him, how he emerges afterward is anyones' guess.

[tonyei31]

6 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Knebel had the bad stretch in 2018, was sent down for essentially a mental break & came out of it with flying colors. The good news is this is nothing physical. Still serious because of the nature of his role. The break is coming at a good time for him, how he emerges afterward is anyones' guess.

It's all a timing tip,  Easily correctable.  It's so noticeable.  Elongates the delivery on offspeed.  Speeds it up on fastballs.  When hitters pick up on this now it's all about chasing location vs having to worry about MPH coming in.   I suspect this is corrected fairly quickly.  Application is much easier than, say, Yelich's major flaw.  Yelich used to, in MVP years, have the legkick/slide and a true up/down movement on his bat to time.  It's now moved to a "Y" shaped movement.   This creates less precision for launch angle/homerun balls.  That's not an easy fix at all (still doable years later with tons of repetitive application).  That's more the driving force with Yelich's lack of power than any injury he has had.  He isn't maintaining the same launch angle as before.  Hitting coaches know this.  Have likely been through it left and right.  Application is tough.  In regards to Hader though, it's such an easy fix.  I have no worries about him for rest of year.  This will be water under  the bridge in a few weeks.  

[valpocrewsader]

Would love to know how that inning might have ended if Tellez hadn't blundered the throw on the pickoff. Had an easy out there to empty the bases with 2 outs. Big momentum swing to allow the SB instead. Hader threw a HBP shortly after that.

[BigDaddy1974]

I’m afraid we just witnessed the collapse of Josh Hader. I hope I’m wrong. But this dude is flat out lost right now.