Brewers Designate Dinelson Lamet, Pedro Severino For Assignment

[BallFour]

12 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

Lamet is costing them what, 1.7 mil REGARDLESS if he plays here or not! Cutting him did what for us? We are on the hook for this money. Why in the world do we not play him? We could have put Suter down. He has options.  Like someone else said on a different post, we have like 10 bullpen guys for 5 “open” spots. Fake injuries could be called on again.

 

Brent Suter fits into the same category as Lamet. Only optionable bullpen arm is Milner I believe.

[Oxy]

13 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

1) I think the point is that it's only $1.7M, not $4.775. 

B) Suter has five years of service time so he can't be sent down.  He had 4 years and 161 days of service time at the beginning of the season.

Or did you really mean "put down"...

I still think DFAing Suter should have been the move.  Lamet might still have a future while Suter is purely a scrub/mop-up guy about to turn 33.  He's likeable though, and a great clubhouse guy.  Which might make him a great bullpen coach or clubhouse advisor or something.

[beekay414]

Forget about the evening out the money excuse, we had all the leverage since we're the one trading the asset. If they demand we take a guy back to fill the salary, you just walk away and revisit this offseason. They bungled this deal, in a multitude of ways, and there's no getting around that. We took money back but didn't even get an organizational top 5 prospect from them. Oh and the "prize" of the deal is a OF...the position we're strong at in the minors. Just an absolutely crap show this TDL. 

[rickh150]

12 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

1) I think the point is that it's only $1.7M, not $4.775. 

B) Suter has five years of service time so he can't be sent down.  He had 4 years and 161 days of service time at the beginning of the season.

Or did you really mean "put down"...

Well, I meant optioned based on the info at sportrac. It said he had options. But yeah,  Suter could have been let go too. This guy should be better, right?

Kind of sad that we are taking on salary for, of all teams, SD who added more payroll than about anyone! 

Everyone’s grade of this trade better get adjusted down a bit if this guy isn’t even playing with us. We’d rather have Suter instead of this guy.

Trade goes from C- to D for me…. And it makes us look like idiots. for forcing us to take on salary for giving up one of the best relief pitchers in the history of the game.

[AKCheesehead]

1 hour ago, Playing Catch said:

I wonder if the Brewers did everything they could to make sure the Padres would get Soto so that the Cardinals wouldn't.

Maybe that's why they got Rosenthal too ?

[CheeseheadInQC]

14 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

Well, I meant optioned based on the info at sportrac. It said he had options. But yeah,  Suter could have been let go too. This guy should be better, right?

Kind of sad that we are taking on salary for, of all teams, SD who added more payroll than about anyone! 

Everyone’s grade of this trade better get adjusted down a bit if this guy isn’t even playing with us. We’d rather have Suter instead of this guy.

Trade goes from C- to D for me…. And it makes us look like idiots. for forcing us to take on salary for giving up one of the best relief pitchers in the history of the game.

Suter has been pretty good the last two months, Lamet gave up more runs than innings pitched when he was with the Padres earlier in the season. His minor league results were good, but so were a bunch of the AAA guys the Brewers have called up this year. If the Brewers thought his woes earlier in the season were more indicative of who he was at this point, him vs. Suter would be a pretty easy call.

[HarveysWBs]

The ballsyness of this Hader trade just went from solid pair of huevos to massive coconuts.

Speaking only from my own vantage point (as it seems much of the rest of the fan base has a shorter leash on this) Stearns has earned a huge amount of slack from me.  But this...not only does Stearns have to be right that Rogers is a negligible downgrade from Hader rest of season, he absolutely has to have hit a home run with Ruiz, and hit at least a solid single with Gasser.  And Ruiz should probably be on the big league club making a difference sooner rather than later.  Otherwise, I don't think there's any way to paint this other than a loss...

...But it all seems so strange that it makes me wonder if the Brewers brass know Hader is kind of broken.  Why else would they hurry to do this deal now and not in the offseason?  If it doesn't stand a reasonable chance to improve the club immediately (meaning Ruiz contributes in the stretch run), getting Hader out while the getting is still good is the only logical explanation.

I guess we'll find out over the next two months.

[monty57]

13 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

Forget about the evening out the money excuse, we had all the leverage since we're the one trading the asset. If they demand we take a guy back to fill the salary, you just walk away and revisit this offseason. They bungled this deal, in a multitude of ways, and there's no getting around that. We took money back but didn't even get an organizational top 5 prospect from them. Oh and the "prize" of the deal is a OF...the position we're strong at in the minors. Just an absolutely crap show this TDL. 

We received “assets” as well. I think you are greatly overvaluing Hader specifically, and relief pitchers in general. Plus, you are glossing over the fact that we received Rogers, who over the course of his career is only 0.31 WAR/season behind Hader. He’s really good, and we don’t have to pay him this year because the Twins are covering his salary (money has value too). I’d take a free Rogers over a $10M Hader any day of the week. 
 

Hader is going to get something like $15M next year in Abby, so he gets very little “surplus value” for his final year. After what Ruiz and Gasser did this year, if they were in our system already, people would be calling them untouchable. Any prospect has risk, but I think we got pretty good value for one season of a relief pitcher. Will everyone who dislikes this trade feel better if Ruiz and Gasser are in some reporters’ Top Prospect lists to start next year? I guess time will tell. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

RR's beards' theory could explain a lot of this. They may have held out for Gasser & Ruiz after being offered something different. Because bottom line, they didn't HAVE to move now on Hader but they did. And it's safe to assume there were other offers.

[Fear The Chorizo]

This partly feels like a long time coming in terms of weird roster reshuffling and questionable moves made by the FO in the last calendar year without giving some internal guys enough room to earn longterm roster spots.  I think something fell through at the deadline that Stearns and company were hoping to work out in terms of a trade for another bat - perhaps Bell or a different bat that would've included Lamet and/or one of their 3 catchers.  Severino gets sent packing because he can't play this postseason due to the drug suspension.  To me Lamet always did look like a throw in for this trade that likely evened out $$ in order for the Padres to include both prospects they did.  Since Rogers' salary was almost fully paid by the Twins, they had to purge some of their MLB payroll to stay under the luxury tax.

Hiura has only been shuttled between AAA and MLB because the Brewers threw a contract at McCutcheon to be their quasi DH and Hiura had an option remaining.  He strikes out a ton but he also makes peanuts and is one of their most productive hitters against RHP.  He's been raking so it'll be interesting to see if he get consistent AB or just gets stuck at the bottom of the Brewers' bench once again.

Based on what is coming up through their farm system, I kind of expect the Brewers to have alot of position player trade activity happening this offseason from their existing MLB roster in order to open up spots for some of their prospects and lower payroll in order to afford arby raises to Burnes/Woodruff.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

1 hour ago, MVP2110 said:

I do get the feeling Ruiz will be up in short order(2 weeks or so). It's not uncommon for teams who acquire young players to send them to the minors first to get acclimated with the organization. 

The fact were now counting on prospects that just arrived in AAA to spark this offense into and through the playoffs is somewhat eye opening and even more concerning

[monty57]

4 minutes ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

The fact were now counting on prospects that just arrived in AAA to spark this offense into and through the playoffs is somewhat eye opening and even more concerning

I don’t mind it if the prospects are good. Calling up Frelick or Ruiz is different than calling up a AAAA journeyman. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

21 minutes ago, HarveysWBs said:

The ballsyness of this Hader trade just went from solid pair of huevos to massive coconuts.

Speaking only from my own vantage point (as it seems much of the rest of the fan base has a shorter leash on this) Stearns has earned a huge amount of slack from me.  But this...not only does Stearns have to be right that Rogers is a negligible downgrade from Hader rest of season, he absolutely has to have hit a home run with Ruiz, and hit at least a solid single with Gasser.  And Ruiz should probably be on the big league club making a different sooner rather than later.  Otherwise, I don't think there's any way to paint this other than a loss...

...But it all seems so strange that it makes me wonder if the Brewers brass know Hader is kind of broken.  Why else would they hurry to do this deal now and not in the offseason?  If it doesn't stand a reasonable chance to improve the club immediately (meaning Ruiz contributes in the stretch run), getting Hader out while the getting is still good is the only logical explanation.

I guess we'll find out over the next two months.

Using that analogy, I'd say a 3B or HR with Gasser, and 2B or 3B with Ruiz. But your opening sentence said it all. I feel there's a good chance Ruiz is up here anywhere btwn the next week to 9-1, hopefully the earlier end of that window.

Maybe he values these guys enough that he didn't want to take the chance of Preller dealing them elsewhere in the offseason if/when his team fails again & he makes another bunch of Monopoly moves.

[monty57]

7 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

This partly feels like a long time coming in terms of weird roster reshuffling and questionable moves made by the FO in the last calendar year without giving some internal guys enough room to earn longterm roster spots.  I think something fell through at the deadline that Stearns and company were hoping to work out in terms of a trade for another bat - perhaps Bell or a different bat that would've included Lamet and/or one of their 3 catchers.  Severino gets sent packing because he can't play this postseason due to the drug suspension.  To me Lamet always did look like a throw in for this trade that likely evened out $$ in order for the Padres to include both prospects they did.  Since Rogers' salary was almost fully paid by the Twins, they had to purge some of their MLB payroll to stay under the luxury tax.

Hiura has only been shuttled between AAA and MLB because the Brewers threw a contract at McCutcheon to be their quasi DH.  He strikes out a ton but he also makes peanuts and is one of their most productive hitters against RHP.  He's been raking so it'll be interesting to see if he get consistent AB or just gets stuck at the bottom of the Brewers' bench once again.

Based on what is coming up through their farm system, I kind of expect the Brewers to have alot of position player trade activity happening this offseason from their existing MLB roster in order to open up spots for some of their prospects and lower payroll in order to afford arby raises to Burnes/Woodruff.

There were rumors that Narvaez was being discussed, so I think you’re correct that they  only held onto three catchers to see if they could get something for one of them at the deadline. 
 

I will also be interested in seeing what they do with Hiura. Does he have value or doesn’t he? I hope he tears the cover off the ball and proves he belongs. Either way, he can answer some questions regarding his future with the Brewers. 

[rickh150]

16 minutes ago, CheeseheadInQC said:

Suter has been pretty good the last two months, Lamet gave up more runs than innings pitched when he was with the Padres earlier in the season. His minor league results were good, but so were a bunch of the AAA guys the Brewers have called up this year. If the Brewers thought his woes earlier in the season were more indicative of who he was at this point, him vs. Suter would be a pretty easy call.

Better to just take on salary of a guy and cut him? 
What are they going to do when Cousins, Gustave, and Houser return? Rose tall? More mysterious injuries, I presume.

[Outlander]

3 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

What are they going to do when Cousins, Gustave, and Houser return? Rose tall? More mysterious injuries, I presume.

Just like Perdomo, they can be optioned. Can't do that with Houser but have not seen a timetable for his return, at this point a rehab assignment can get him to September.

[monty57]

1 hour ago, Playing Catch said:

Davis does look like an all-world defender in CF, who happens to have had a terrific year hitting in Nashville, and is hitting well in Milwaukee (albeit w/o any power).

I'm as excited about Ruiz as everyone, but I don't think we should be in such a rush to send Davis down.

Good point. Davis has 0.6 WAR, proving positive offensively and defensively in somewhat limited playing time this year, so he has helped the team. 

[beekay414]

28 minutes ago, monty57 said:

We received “assets” as well. I think you are greatly overvaluing Hader specifically, and relief pitchers in general. Plus, you are glossing over the fact that we received Rogers, who over the course of his career is only 0.31 WAR/season behind Hader. He’s really good, and we don’t have to pay him this year because the Twins are covering his salary (money has value too). I’d take a free Rogers over a $10M Hader any day of the week. 

In no way am I overvaluing the best reliever of the last half decade. I've said this before but gauging a relievers value based on WAR isn't really all that wise since it equates how lucky or unlucky someone has been getting into their formula (FIP, xFIP, BABIP, Strand rate) but the one of the biggest part of being a high leverage reliever is stranding runners (we're seeing this issue present itself with Boxberger this year) and Rogers is has not been good in that department over the last 3 seasons. Plus, WAR for a reliever, who appear less than any other players on the field, that 0.31/season is a pretty large gap, if you choose to use it. Rogers is also a rental, so that should drop his value significantly when talking a piece in a return for someone that still has team control, albeit another season. So just getting Rogers to "replace" Hader isn't a good enough reason to be content with receiving him as part of the package. He was also removed from their closer role prior to the deal so...Also, I don't care about him being "free" or not since we did nothing other than acquire Trevor Rosenthal using that "freed up" money. Quality work.

28 minutes ago, monty57 said:

Hader is going to get something like $15M next year in Abby, so he gets very little “surplus value” for his final year. After what Ruiz and Gasser did this year, if they were in our system already, people would be calling them untouchable. Any prospect has risk, but I think we got pretty good value for one season of a relief pitcher. Will everyone who dislikes this trade feel better if Ruiz and Gasser are in some reporters’ Top Prospect lists to start next year? I guess time will tell. 

Gasser is a 23 year old pitcher who has never pitched above A ball and profiles as a BOR starter due to his average, if not below, fastball. If anyone calls a 23 year old pitcher with little pedigree, in A+, untouchable, then they probably don't know how prospect development works. He's in AA now. This is where we'll find out what he is.

Ruiz is fine but he shouldn't be the headlining piece in a Hader deal. He's a speed first player who has 80 games, in hitter friendly environments, of legitimate production at the plate. He's raised his average and cut down on K's by sacrificing quality contact to be a more low-impact bat and take advantage of his speed. That's fine assuming he can get to the gaps but I have my doubts since you absolutely need to make quality contact vs MLB level pitching. You can get away with it in the minors but that **** doesn't fly in the bigs.

From a few weeks ago...

And in Ruiz's 27 PA, 22 events, he produced an average exit velocity of 70. That's...uh...not great, bob.

[CheeseheadInQC]

Just now, rickh150 said:

Better to just take on salary of a guy and cut him? 
What are they going to do when Cousins, Gustave, and Houser return? Rose tall? More mysterious injuries, I presume.

The Padres were doing all sorts of finagling to get under the luxury tax. I can't see how they avoid it next year, but they were bound and determined to stay under it this year. If the Brewers wanted this deal done, they were going to help. Lamet didn't use any of the value in the Hader deal. We couldn't have gotten some prospect instead of him. If you are making a baseball decision rather than a PR one, Lamet should have been evaluated just like everyone else. They did that and didn't think he was worth a roster spot.

[edfunderburk]

3 hours ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

Being a Brewer fan has been rough over the last 48 hours.

I’m a tad embarrassed … all my friends know of my love for the Brewers … I have no answers for basic questions … these whacky decisions are indefensible 

There are 5-7 guys on the 40-man roster I would DFA over Lamet … I’m completely stunned by the Rosenthal trade & the Lamet DFA 

I do understand the Severino decision … I honestly believe the Brewers tried to trade Narvaez & couldn’t get what they wanted so they “finally” dropped Severino

Not our best week … especially with Burnes losing to the hapless Pirates & Hader getting the victory last night on a Grisham walkoff HR

[Jim French Stepstool]

9 minutes ago, monty57 said:

 

I will also be interested in seeing what they do with Hiura. Does he have value or doesn’t he? 

As far as discernable trade value, I suspect the last few days answered that. I too hope he does well, but I'm having trouble seeing how he fits other than a PH. And a couple of the prime candidates to be PH for will be pulled when a lefty takes the mound, hardly a matchup Keston's thrived in. I can see him taking some DH ABs, I'm just not sure how many.

[JefferyLeonard]

Everyone talking about how Hader's value isn't what we all think it is must forget the Yankees got Gleyber Torres for a RENTAL Arlodis Chapman. If "this" was the package Stearns was in love with, his evaluation skills are lacking. To trade the best reliever in the game and not get AT least one of Hassell or Campusano is a total disservice. You don't get one of them, fine, don't trade Josh now then. Wait until the off season. You could have gotten at least as much then.

Also, IF the tweet i saw yesterday is accurate that the Brewers wouldn't include Weimer in a Soto deal, then Stearns needs to pack his bags. That is absolutely inexcusable. 

This is what I mean, Stearns has no "bad ass" in him. He's too nice. He lets teams include players to even out salary without getting more back, and doesn't DEMAND more of a package then what they got. "Pay my price or we don't trade him" Simple as that. 

I really miss Doug Melvin. he was the "epitome" of going for it, and be rest assured, with the pitching staff they have now, and Melvin as GM, they wouldn't be making paltry little deals like they have been at the deadline. They would have been one of the big winners at the deadline the last couple years at least. 

 

[edfunderburk]

2 hours ago, BallFour said:

Did they screw up not knowing he had 5 years of service time? Otherwise why not just come out and say right away it was for financial reasons. 

My thoughts exactly … I assume an oversight on the 5-year mark … otherwise the complimentary remarks about Lamet from both Stearns & Counsell are disingenuous 

[BruisedCrew]

I guess Lamet was not a “sleeper” in this deal, but a corpse. 

[owbc]

I love how emboldened this front office has become. I think Mark A has given Stearns the green light to do whatever he wants and they no longer even pretend to care about optics. 

The idea that Doug Melvin would have 'won' this trade deadline is such a joke. He couldn't have won because he would have already blown all of our trade chips trying to win the deadline or the offseason in the last year or two.