Brewers Acquire Jesse Winker and Abraham Toro from Mariners for Wong

[Sixtolezcano]

16 hours ago, DoubleSwitch said:

Again this is a rose tinted view. Garrett Mitchell is a lock defensively and Chourio and Frelick are more fringy according to every neutral prospect evaluation I've seen.

People also need to accept that Frelicks lack of power is a concern. Big league defenses are better and you can't slap singles and run out grounders like you can in the minors. Frelick propped up his average with that. I think he's a nice prospect, but he's no sure thing.

By making that statement you become a pariah on this site. There are posters on this site that will never forgive or forget your opinion Of the golden boy Frelick. Best to change your nickname and go underground.

[mtsportsfan]

1 hour ago, Eye Black said:

I am not among the highest on Sal Frelick, but I actually think his skill set pairs very well with a style of play that’s going to be coveted in MLB over the next decade. I am hopeful the recent rules changes increase the value and impact of players like Frelick. If he can get on base and cause havoc from there he will be an asset to the top of the Brewers lineup. 

Precisely,  got so tired of the home run or strike out , power is nice but give me a guy who can work the pitcher and hit gap to gap who doesn't strike out half the time. Looking forward to some of the changes coming up . looks like the crew is changing there philosophy along with the changes. Love it ! 

[jonescm128]

Frelick may not have the power of Weimer but his skill set translates the best to the MLB level. You can develop power but its much more difficult to develop contact and plate discipline. 

[CheeseheadInQC]

Frelick’s lack of power does limit his ultimate upside, but it is not like he is Juan Pierre. Unless I am mistaken his minor league extra base hit totals would have ranked fourth on the Brewers last season, and he did hit double-digit homers.

 I am not one of Frelick’s biggest defenders on the site (I think I was one of the few who didn’t have him in the top 2 in the last prospect poll), but if he can truly be a .300 hitter at the big league level, the power numbers he posted in the minors last year might never make him an MVP candidate, but they would be more than adequate. A .150 ISO looks a lot better stacked atop a .300 average than a .230 one.

[homer]

44 minutes ago, Sixtolezcano said:

By making that statement you become a pariah on this site. There are posters on this site that will never forgive or forget your opinion Of the golden boy Frelick. Best to change your nickname and go underground.

that is not true. can we stop worrying so much about other posters and just provide our own opinions? if you don't think Frelick is that great just say so and state your reasons why. 

[Harold Hutchison]

47 minutes ago, mtsportsfan said:

Precisely,  got so tired of the home run or strike out , power is nice but give me a guy who can work the pitcher and hit gap to gap who doesn't strike out half the time. Looking forward to some of the changes coming up . looks like the crew is changing there philosophy along with the changes. Love it ! 

For me, it is nice to have players who can work the pitcher. I disagree with some in that I think working a pitcher is something that every baseball player can learn, and there are certain skills (laying down bunts, shortening a swing) that also can be learned.

The extent to which some players can do the latter skills can be debated, but when you have Corbin Burnes on the mound, there's a runner on third with less than two outs... then why isn't a squeeze play considered an option? I know analytics are a thing, but too many see them as holy writ rather than as one tool (an important tool, mind you) among many to evaluate a player.

Baseball Mogul is fine and dandy and one of the best simulations there is, but when you really look at it, baseball is played by human beings, and analytics don't tell the whole story.

[Lajitas]

I love how this has turned into how I hate Frelick.  I just don't see a team that considers themselves a contender, probably in the last year of their contending window, installing a THIRD rookie into the starting lineup, especially one that has no MLB experience and less than a season above A ball.  It's that simple.

If we're going that route, trade Burnes, trade Woodruff, trade Adames for as many prospects that are near major league ready as we can, for the next contending window to open in 2024 or 2025.

[UpandIn]

38 minutes ago, Lajitas said:

I love how this has turned into how I hate Frelick.  I just don't see a team that considers themselves a contender, probably in the last year of their contending window, installing a THIRD rookie into the starting lineup, especially one that has no MLB experience and less than a season above A ball.  It's that simple.

If we're going that route, trade Burnes, trade Woodruff, trade Adames for as many prospects that are near major league ready as we can, for the next contending window to open in 2024 or 2025.

I love how you think this has turned into ANYTHING about YOU or...really anything even tangentially about YOU and nobody has said you "hate" Frelick(mostly because people just don't care enough). In fact, it's really difficult to follow the logic in your posts. It went from someone who wasn't as high on Frelick to you jumping in with...this;

Unprompted;

Quote

 

Prepare to be blasted by not anointing Frelick as the ROY next season.

 

 

Brewcrew82
 

Quote

Except for the small fact that literally no one has done that...

And then you...not addressing the point AT ALL;

Quote

 

Except for the giant fact that YOU did that.  And I quote "FWIW, he'll have to be on the opening day roster if they want the possibility of gaining that extra draft pick from the ROY vote. "

That's YOU on Frelick.  Of course, now you'll come back with some BS about how that's not what you meant.  Dancing better than the love child of Fred Astaire and Michael Jackson.

 

So the GIANT fact was that you were "blasted" for not "anointing" Frelick as the ROY next year(which was never the argument, the argument was that he could finish top 3 in ROY...which is what you need to get draft pick compensation). 

Also, there's not some new "BE about how that's not what you meant." It's REAL simple what he he's saying. Frelick's one of the top candidates for ROY. Ergo, there's a strong chance he'll be on the OD roster. The only two reasons he WOULDN'T would be because they want that extra year of service time...which would mean leaving him in the minors for about 6 weeks so he has less than 172 days of service time. This was explained...probably 3, 4 times. Or if he's injured. Otherwise, he obviously should be on the roster.

Quote

It's that simple.

FINE!!!  You're under the impression despite almost literally EVERY top prospect who has spent very little time at AAA once they play well there because...it's generally a level for older minor leaguers who are waiting for a callup and a place top prospects spend very little time means Frelick won't be a part of the plans for the everyday lineup and if he is...they might as well trade Burnes, Woodruff and Adames(that's logical and not hyperbolic). 

He's also CLEARLY not the 3rd rookie, he'd be the #1 rookie given the 70 hit tool and the dominance at the higher levels, the things Flanigan has said about him as a prospect(ya know, the guy in charge of overseeing prospect development). 

But here's the point...it's not that you DON'T think he'll be in the lineup...it's that you KEEP whining about it and making these claims that people will "blast you" for not saying he'll be ROY, an argument not one single person has made. 

 

And I'm sure all you'll get for this is "why do you hate Sal Frelick," so that was probably just a waste of time. 

[sveumrules]

7 hours ago, BlightyBrew said:

I have followed the Brewers for 44 years.  I've seen the good and the bad of this franchise and all its re-incarnations, the multiple re-builds, plans, etc.  The only thing that does not change is some other team always seems to win the WS. 

I know I will be slated for this view and ridiculed, but I have lost faith.  

The last six years (.552 W%) have been the best run of Brewers baseball since the Molitor Yount Glory Years of 1978-83 (.564 W%).

The organization is better positioned to win the WS now than any time in the last forty years.

If you could keep the faith from 1993-2006 when the Brewers posted 14 straight losing seasons, keeping the faith now should be a breeze.

You might not believe in the Brewers, but I believe in you BlightyBrew!!

[brewcrewdue80]

Just a note on ROY. Pretty sure 1 guy finished in top 2 who essentially spent weeks in minors, but then still accomplished the feat. His reward was gaining the full year of service time 172days.  Frelick could be back and still accrue a full year of service time. He has to be on the 2023 Opening Day roster so Milw gains a draft pick should Sal accomplish that ROY.  It's that or club needs to hold him in minors until after trade deadline. Guarantee he won't play enough to win anything and knowledge of 40man workings, keeping him off it.

[Thurston Fluff]

9 hours ago, BlightyBrew said:

I'm going to preface this with I know it's still early and there is a lot of moves that may happen to improve the roster. 

However, these are my thoughts at the moment.  I think if Winker is healthy (another player with bad knees and a neck issue is not good) and his head is in the right place, it's an okay move for a DH against RHP only, but the trade does not move the needle.  If anything, the roster is slightly weaker especially with all the unknowns that are currently penciled in at starting positions.

It seems to me the way this roster is penciling out that they are putting a lot of faith in young prospects, who have yet to play a full MLB season or even get in an AB at the ML level.  That's a lot of pressure on these young kids to come up and make an impact.  Especially for a team that has playoff aspirations or even "WS" aspirations.  However, based on Arnolds comments to Adam Mcalvey after the Kolten trade, that the Brewers are trying to be the "best" they can be in 2023. Seems to me that he has even dropped the pretense of contending for a WS right now.  They will not use the word rebuild but at best this is a reset to evaluate what they have in the minors to see if these prospects are legit or not.  The current lineup is very thin and to be honest there is no one that you are afraid to face.

The plan seems to be to lower payroll with the illusion of contending.  I do not believe they will sign anyone to improve the roster.  This leads me to believe that Burnes, Woody, and Adames will not be extended (and not part of the "plan") and will be gone by the trading deadline next summer, if not sooner.   I don't believe BN report that the Brewers have pulled those three off the trading block.  To me that just tells me the Brewers are telling the market that the value in return needs to be higher.

I have followed the Brewers for 44 years.  I've seen the good and the bad of this franchise and all its re-incarnations, the multiple re-builds, plans, etc.  The only thing that does not change is some other team always seems to win the WS. 

I know I will be slated for this view and ridiculed, but I have lost faith.  

There is no scenario where trading Wong gets us a guaranteed needle mover. There is a scenario where all the planets align and Winker actually moves the needle.

[monty57]

Winker had back-to-back seasons with a wRC+ over 140 in ‘20 and ‘21. His “terrible” season last year still ended in a 108 wRC+, when he was apparently battling injuries. How is this not a potential “needle mover?” Nothing’s guaranteed, but he’s been one of the best hitters in baseball in two of the past three seasons.

I hope one of the young guys can post a high OBP and get moved to the top of the order with Yelich. Then Winker and Adames can be the 3/4 hitters with some guys on base in front of them. 
 

I think he should fit into this lineup nicely. 

[DR28]

1 hour ago, monty57 said:

Winker had back-to-back seasons with a wRC+ over 140 in ‘20 and ‘21. His “terrible” season last year still ended in a 108 wRC+, when he was apparently battling injuries. How is this not a potential “needle mover?” Nothing’s guaranteed, but he’s been one of the best hitters in baseball in two of the past three seasons.

I hope one of the young guys can post a high OBP and get moved to the top of the order with Yelich. Then Winker and Adames can be the 3/4 hitters with some guys on base in front of them. 
 

I think he should fit into this lineup nicely. 

OMG yes! A lineup of:

Yeli

Frelick

Adames OR Winker

Winker OR Adames

Tellez

Could be a definitely damn nice top half!

[Harold Hutchison]

I was thinking:

Frelick

Adames

Yelich

Winker

Tellez

[Brewcrew82]

How about this?

Yelich LF

Frelick CF

Jansen C

Winker DH

Adames SS

Tellez 1B

Urias 3B

Mitchell/Taylor RF

Turang 2B

[edfunderburk]

49 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

How about this?

Yelich LF

Frelick CF

Jansen C

Winker DH

Adames SS

Tellez 1B

Urias 3B

Mitchell/Taylor RF

Turang 2B

I would prefer Christian Vasquez (C) over Jansen … & I’d like a two-year deal with Justin Turner (3B & 1B) … I also like Payton Henry as the backup … trade Caratini & Huira … keep Toro for utility … good team!  Hopefully, Guerra & one of the Angels trade arms help the bullpen. 

[Brewcrew82]

1 minute ago, edfunderburk said:

I would prefer Christian Vasquez (C) over Jansen … & I’d like a two-year deal with Justin Turner (3B & 1B) … I also like Payton Henry as the backup … trade Caratini & Huira … keep Toro for utility … good team!  Hopefully, Guerra & one of the Angels trade arms help the bullpen. 

Can I ask why you would prefer Vasquez over Jansen? Jansen is younger and a better hitter. Just screaming as a potential all-star breakout if given regular playing time...

[edfunderburk]

Just now, Brewcrew82 said:

Can I ask why you would prefer Vasquez over Jansen? Jansen is younger and a better hitter. Just screaming as a potential all-star breakout if given regular playing time...

I like Jansen - I read that he did not hit LH pitching well & that is a huge concern with current team … I haven’t checked to verify if that is true … I also prefer to hang onto prospects & I believe Vasquez is a free agent

[edfunderburk]

1 hour ago, Brewcrew82 said:

How about this?

Yelich LF

Frelick CF

Jansen C

Winker DH

Adames SS

Tellez 1B

Urias 3B

Mitchell/Taylor RF

Turang 2B

One other item … I hope Esteury Ruiz is on the 26-man roster for his speed & versatility

[Brewcrew82]

1 minute ago, edfunderburk said:

I like Jansen - I read that he did not hit LH pitching well & that is a huge concern with current team … I haven’t checked to verify if that is true … I also prefer to hang onto prospects & I believe Vasquez is a free agent

Gotcha. Though, he did put up a .826 OPS against LHP this season. So, he's not a Keston Hiura with huge reverse splits. I just think he's a sleeper player that will continue to hit at a high level even with increased playing time. I'd be content with Vasquez, too. 

[edfunderburk]

1 minute ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Gotcha. Though, he did put up a .826 OPS against LHP this season. So, he's not a Keston Hiura with huge reverse splits. I just think he's a sleeper player that will continue to hit at a high level even with increased playing time. I'd be content with Vasquez, too. 

Jansen would be a significant upgrade, no doubt … I fear it may cost us Wiemer though 

[Brewcrew82]

7 minutes ago, edfunderburk said:

Jansen would be a significant upgrade, no doubt … I fear it may cost us Wiemer though 

That's fair. I think it would help that he's from Wisconsin and would maybe be more amenable to signing one or two year extension past his current two years of control. We'll see what happens. 

[rickh150]

9 hours ago, Lajitas said:

I love how this has turned into how I hate Frelick.  I just don't see a team that considers themselves a contender, probably in the last year of their contending window, installing a THIRD rookie into the starting lineup, especially one that has no MLB experience and less than a season above A ball.  It's that simple.

If we're going that route, trade Burnes, trade Woodruff, trade Adames for as many prospects that are near major league ready as we can, for the next contending window to open in 2024 or 2025.

Will be surprised if one of those three ISN’T traded…

[Brewcrew82]

1 minute ago, rickh150 said:

Will be surprised if one of those three ISN’T traded…

 

 

[phnxcrew]

1 hour ago, rickh150 said:

Will be surprised if one of those three ISN’T traded…

At this point the more surprising non trade would be one of frelick, Mitchell and Wiemer IMO.  we have what the blue jays want in a left hitting outfielder and pitching.  They have the catching we want.  So naturally it won’t happen ?