Packers 2023 Discussion Thread

[BrewerFan]

3 hours ago, OldHeidelberg said:

Bakhtiari listed as questionable, I guess there was something to the article this offseason that questioned whether he would play on turf.

That'd be a pretty big blow to his long term outlook. He's supposed to be back to 100%, he was jumping over piles and looked great on Sunday. I would guess him not wanting to play on turf is more of a mental thing at this point.

I think the Raiders play on Turf, so that's 5 games this year he'd miss. That's...12 of 17 before you account for any type of possible other injuries he may suffer. 

Questionable is 50/50, so...hope he's out there.

[HarryDoyle]

Sounds like a MCL sprain for Jenkins.

[BrewerFan]

7 minutes ago, HarryDoyle said:

Sounds like a MCL sprain for Jenkins.

That's relatively good news. That's anywhere from 2 to 6 weeks I believe(I may have spent 8 years in College, but for some reason that doesn't qualify me to be an "MD," just because I didn't "go to Med school." Who thinks is a scam).

BUT...someone tell Bakh to go out there and play. Unless his knee just isn't strong enough to handle turf which...yes, I get it's slightly more dangerous, but it's not like you're playing on old Veterans Stadiums Turf.

Or what the hell, get Walker Snaps at Guard at practice. If he's capable of playing LT, he can play LG. There's no Earthly way Royce Newman is our 3rd best G. It...just CANNOT be possible. And he's sure as hell not one of our best 5. 

[adambr2]

I gotta say on Bahktiari, we should have moved on in the offseason. It's been enough. I'm sure he's more frustrated than anyone, but we're going on 3 years of a part time lineman now. It's not a great way to have to run an offensive line rotation with that kind of reliability.

[jason21nl]

While the last qtr and the two minute drill sucked, I think Love will benefit from it.   Im so happy it doesn’t appear that he sucks.  If I’m a Bears fan I’m very concerned.   

[HarryDoyle]

2 minutes ago, jason21nl said:

While the last qtr and the two minute drill sucked, I think Love will benefit from it.   Im so happy it doesn’t appear that he sucks.  If I’m a Bears fan I’m very concerned.   

If I'm the Bears I'd be more concerned about the quarterback they have and not the one the Packers have.

[OldHeidelberg]

21 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

I gotta say on Bahktiari, we should have moved on in the offseason. It's been enough. I'm sure he's more frustrated than anyone, but we're going on 3 years of a part time lineman now. It's not a great way to have to run an offensive line rotation with that kind of reliability.

During the season last year I was sure they would move on but I am not sure they ever considered releasing him. I agree, we need the rock Bakh who you can plug in there and forget about but that guy is gone. Any update on Jenkins? Sort of under the radar during the game but they said knee injury.

[jason21nl]

10 minutes ago, HarryDoyle said:

If I'm the Bears I'd be more concerned about the quarterback they have and not the one the Packers have.

I should have finished my thought.  If I’m the Bears I’m very concerned about the QB they have

[BrewerFan]

21 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

I gotta say on Bahktiari, we should have moved on in the offseason. It's been enough. I'm sure he's more frustrated than anyone, but we're going on 3 years of a part time lineman now. It's not a great way to have to run an offensive line rotation with that kind of reliability.

I don't think there was way they could have moved on from him up until June 1 and...he obviously wasn't going to New York if he's not playing on Turf. 

Unless this is a team decision and not just a Bakhtiari decision. I believe based on his comments, this is Bakhtiari and I don't believe it's because he can't. I think he's built Turf up into a much greater risk than it actually is. It IS a higher risk, but it's not like you're 20% more likely to get hurt, the difference is small. Very small. The Detroit game Rodgers convinced him to play half in and his knew blew up has also likely have a lasting psychological impact(or maybe issue than I think it is).

I'm gonna withhold judgement right now just because I don't know what's actually going on other than...he didn't play week 2 vs the Falcons, but there is absolutely no question that OT is the #1 priority this off-season.

But yeah, if he's gonna be sitting for games they play on turf, then....all the sudden the Math becomes SO much easier. Is Bakh worth 19M?

No. So he'd be cut/traded in the off-season.

 

[BrewerFan]

10 minutes ago, OldHeidelberg said:

During the season last year I was sure they would move on but I am not sure they ever considered releasing him. I agree, we need the rock Bakh who you can plug in there and forget about but that guy is gone. Any update on Jenkins? Sort of under the radar during the game but they said knee injury.

No, they kept saying they had zero concern about his knee structurally long term. 

I still think it's worth having him on the roster this year as they transition to Love, but next year the balance swings pretty heavily.

 

Jenkins has the sprained MCL. That's a pretty vague designation, but on the long end it's probably 6 weeks. On the short end it could be less than a week. Jones has come back in I think 10 days from one. Just matters how bad it was. Probably which knee as well. If it's the surgically repaired knee, it may be a bit longer, but that's just me speculating. 

[HarryDoyle]

36 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

I don't think there was way they could have moved on from him up until June 1 and...he obviously wasn't going to New York if he's not playing on Turf. 

Unless this is a team decision and not just a Bakhtiari decision. I believe based on his comments, this is Bakhtiari and I don't believe it's because he can't. I think he's built Turf up into a much greater risk than it actually is. It IS a higher risk, but it's not like you're 20% more likely to get hurt, the difference is small. Very small. The Detroit game Rodgers convinced him to play half in and his knew blew up has also likely have a lasting psychological impact(or maybe issue than I think it is).

I'm gonna withhold judgement right now just because I don't know what's actually going on other than...he didn't play week 2 vs the Falcons, but there is absolutely no question that OT is the #1 priority this off-season.

But yeah, if he's gonna be sitting for games they play on turf, then....all the sudden the Math becomes SO much easier. Is Bakh worth 19M?

No. So he'd be cut/traded in the off-season.

 

The irony in all this is that Bakh suffered his knee injury on natural grass.

[BrewerFan]

26 minutes ago, HarryDoyle said:

The irony in all this is that Bakh suffered his knee injury on natural grass.

Did he? I was of the impression he suffered it in the Hudson Center, but...that'd be even sillier.

I don't want to play the "you get paid ___millions of dollars, we don't care how you feel about it, go out there and play card," but...he got paid 92M dollars and I don't care how he feels about turf field, so go out there and play!

 

Seriously, it's a worthwhile discussion to have. I'd bet it's even worse for concussions. Whatever. But does he feel NO obligation without Rodgers here to just...suck it up and play? Just this week he's gushing about the potential of this team and how he's taken Love under his wing.

 

Anyway...Zach Tom was once again just outstanding. I'd still be happy with the Packers going OL/DL with their first 3 picks. And if they're going to make a trade, trade for a Center. Josh Myers is not good. But I'm sure he's better than Royce Newman. 

[BrewerFan]

1 hour ago, jason21nl said:

I should have finished my thought.  If I’m the Bears I’m very concerned about the QB they have

It's all about Jedi mindtricking the Bears until after the '24 draft.

"This is not the QB you're looking for...you're looking for the QB from North Carolina...you do not want this QB."

Except I actually think Maye is pretty good, so...think of someone else maybe.

[CheezWizHed]

If you aren't paying attention... it doesn't really matter what QB the Bears get... They will ensure he stinks. 😂  I'm sure Caleb Williams will just go back to school for an extra year to avoid the Bears. 

I saw a graphic that said Justin Jefferson (in 3.1 years) has more career yardage and any Bears WR...ever.

• Johnny Morris 1958-1967 had 5059 yards receiving
• JJ: 5134 yards

[adambr2]

In many ways, they seem like the exact same Packers to me. That's both a blessing and a curse. 

High level QB who can make all the throws in a clean pocket but struggle against a consistent pass rush. 

An offense that can be so fluid and smooth at times and can be stagnant when they get conservative and go into clock management mode. 

A maddeningly inconsistent defense that looks like a bunch of playmakers flying around a lot of the time, and other times looks like they can't stop the worst teams in football. 

I can't put my finger around why Joe Barry is the problem- I'm not qualified to know the why - but this defense is consistently less than the sum of its parts, and there's only been one constant the last 3 years. It would be one thing if this was a guy who had had success everywhere he's been before-- I'd be more inclined to put the actual talent under the microscope - but that's not the case. I believe this defense has talent. A lot of it. I'd go as far as to say it's around the same talent level as the 2009 and 2010 Packers teams. 

The most important thing, as others have said, is that it appears that Jordan Love will be great at best, and competent at worst. Everything else we can address, but not having to go back to square one at QB like so many teams do is huge. 

[LouisEly]

Bakh did have swelling in his knee leading up to the game which is why he didn't play, not because he was afraid of artificial turf.

[CheezWizHed]

34 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

Bakh did have swelling in his knee leading up to the game which is why he didn't play, not because he was afraid of artificial turf.

[GAME05]

I'm gonna assume Jim Leonard told the Packers he wanted a little bit of a break from coaching before he got back into it and so that's why Barry got to keep his job. It makes me feel better to think of it that way. Otherwise Mark Murphy needs to go even moreso than Joe Barry. 

[wallus]

I expect Jim Leonard to be the Defensive Coordinator next season.

[BrewerFan]

19 hours ago, LouisEly said:

Bakh did have swelling in his knee leading up to the game which is why he didn't play, not because he was afraid of artificial turf.

I'm a little skeptical of this. Not that he didn't have some swelling. I'd buy that. But there was already talk about him not playing on turf before the year started.

 

I wouldn't say that if I was a credentialed journalist, but...I'm just skeptical. But I'd say that definitively answers the question on Bakhtiari. He's got to be replaced. The most likely scenario to me is Tom kicking over to LT and then depending on where we pick, a guy like Latham(a 5 star recruit with incredible potential) or Kinsley Suamatia, the 6'6 325 pound former 5 star recruit who went to Oregon who's an incredible athlete already.

 

This is the year to need an OT like last year was the year to need a TE. There will be OTs dropping to the 2nd rd who'd normally have a 1st round grade on one. 

I'd even double up on the OL with the 1st 2 picks and grab Van Pran with the 2nd. Get the Center that specifically fits your scheme this time.

[BrewerFan]

On 9/18/2023 at 5:07 PM, adambr2 said:

In many ways, they seem like the exact same Packers to me. That's both a blessing and a curse. 

High level QB who can make all the throws in a clean pocket but struggle against a consistent pass rush. 

I don't think this is like any team the Packers have had in recent history. They're so much bigger and more athletic...and younger, I don't really even see many similarities. Barry still makes some perplexing calls, but even at that, the only obvious one I can think of was having Savage about 15 yards off the ball on 3rd and 4 late when they had Robinson run a quick slant on Bijan. 

And even in that case, it was defensible as they had some pretty big mismatches on the perimeter.

 

I do like that MLF is complaining and upset...misdirected as it may be as I have no doubt Barry will revert back to the Joe Barry we've always seen, but he played aggressively.

But never since they've had Favre have the Packers had this type of youth, have they had this type of speed relative to the other team or have they had this type of size and physicality. 

Our best defensive team had Clay Matthews and Frank Zombo starting at OLBer in the 3-4. This team has Rashan Gary and Van Ness who are young and both ~6'5 275-285 compared to 6'2 245 and 6'3 250 for Matthews and Zombo. Then Preston Smith who's in the 270 range, Wyatt, Clark are more athletic and explosive. Quay and Campbell? I don't ever remember having two MLBers with that type of athletic ability. And then a secondary that's very young and has massive upside. That may be the most similar as you had Woodson and Collins. 

But this team is built differently than the last SB team and sooo much differently than the teams since 2011 when we had those two career ending injuries and we were just a physically slower and weaker team that relied upon Rodgers to win.

 

I'm also excited about Love, but we have not seen nearly enough from him to say he's a high level QB. I think you can pretty safely say he can manage a game. We've seen him making some big time throws...but he hasn't been asked to do more than that. Even vs ATL, I don't think he struggled vs pressure so much there were just so few snaps he got.

I mean, he had 10 plays in the 4th. 3 runs on one series. On another series, he threw two balls. One was a bad ball that could have been picked. The other Royce Newman just completely whiffed on a stunt. Just...completely left a good 4 yard area wide gap open that was his responsibility. 

But asking me to rank him after the Bears and Falcons fronts, I'd say he's proven he's in the Jimmy G type grouping(meaning you can win with him, but you're not winning BECAUSE of him at this point. And while I have a lot of confidence in him, he has NOT faced the types of defenses that you learn much from. 

Is he a Pro-Bowl QB? A top 10 QB? I genuinely don't know right now and I don't think we can until we get at least half way through the season and MLF loosens the reigns a bit(there may be a reason he's holding on so tight).

 

Again, hope he is. I think he can be. But we're babying the hell out of him right now. Until that stops, we're not going to know.

8 hours ago, GAME05 said:

I'm gonna assume Jim Leonard told the Packers he wanted a little bit of a break from coaching before he got back into it and so that's why Barry got to keep his job. It makes me feel better to think of it that way. Otherwise Mark Murphy needs to go even moreso than Joe Barry. 

 

8 hours ago, wallus said:

I expect Jim Leonard to be the Defensive Coordinator next season.

I desperately hope you two are right.

Barry is just playing these guy straight up. There's so little for the QB to read. I'm thinking about that 5 wide on 3rd and 4 and Campbell was on Bijan and Savage is ~20 yards off the ball. You could not have made that an easier read. At least bring Savage up, play the robber and force them to make a read on the play.

I also think our secondary is just going to get better as Stokes comes back, but more than that, when it dawns on him to give a few snaps to the guy actual members of the organization AND the media were saying was one of the best OVERALL players in camp, not just rookies in Valentine. I get he's a rookie, but we heard all about him...and then we saw him and he genuinely exceeded all expectations. I promise if he was a 1st or 2nd rd pick, he'd be getting Nixon's snaps or they'd be working on ways to get 4 CBs on the field with Savage. 

Ford or Valentine? Ford's a bigger hitter. He's no ta better tackler and he's certainty not better in coverage. 

 

My fear is this defense finished ranked ~7th or so and then the FO and MLF get to use that an excuse to keep him. 

Jim Leonhard would be one of the most creative DCs in the NFL right now, Quay walker would probably have 7-8 sacks this year and we'd be getting so much more pressure and free runners. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

On 9/19/2023 at 8:43 AM, LouisEly said:

Bakh did have swelling in his knee leading up to the game which is why he didn't play, not because he was afraid of artificial turf.

If that's the honest case, it still sucks because he can't even suit up consecutive Sundays after getting through a game healthy and not practicing during the week.

[CheezWizHed]

10 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

The other Royce Newman just completely whiffed on a stunt. Just...completely left a good 4 yard area wide gap open that was his responsibility. 

I've chuckled reading the blog-sphere's analysis of his performance this week.  Seems like he was so far out of his lane that he wasn't dinged for someone running right through it for the sack. 

[BrewerFan]

2 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

I've chuckled reading the blog-sphere's analysis of his performance this week.  Seems like he was so far out of his lane that he wasn't dinged for someone running right through it for the sack. 

Well that's nice! You're SO bad at your job, you can't even be blamed for it😏

Life hacks!

I've tried that with the wash...and then the Missus(not technically, but...basically) put a whole load of dry clean only shirts in the wash and she one upped me(problem is, I don't think she was trying to). Didn't even use delicate or the steam clean...

Point to her! 

[BrewerFan]

David Bakhtiari pushing back...pretty strongly on the "not playing due to turf," narrative.

A couple thoughts;

1-Maybe DON'T get upset when your own Brother pushes the narrative.
2-Sounds like he's out this week, so clearly not about the turf.

3-It's becoming very clear that the Packers now just have to move on from Bakhtiari after this season. He was asked point blank if he planned on retiring and he said basically 'no, it's harder when you're still good. If he was playing poorly, that'd be one thing.'

The 2022 draft appears to be a franchise altering draft with a starting LBer, DE, 2 WRers, guys like Enagbare who at the very least are exceptional #4 edge rushers, Toure, Walker who is likely starting. But 9 years after finding an All Pro LT, I think the Packers have found another one in Zach Tom.

 

More than anything, decision to keep Bakhtiari next year or not is becoming easier and easier. I've seen way too many people say, "you can't keep him with a 40M dollar cap hit." The 40M isn't part of the equation when determining if you keep him or not. ~21M is already there...if he plays or not.

So it's ~19M. Is he worth 19M next year. If he goes through camp, practices only on rare occasions, comes out, plays a game vs Chicago and looks great, but then can't play the following 2 weeks? There's your answer.

Now maybe he plays the next 14 games, but I'm skeptical.