Packers 2023 Discussion Thread

[Strike4]

13 minutes ago, HarryDoyle said:

You know the situation is dire whenever The Onion goes out of their way to put Barry and the defense on blast. The sports editor there must be a Packer fan.

Apparently The Onion has better judgment on our DC than the head coach

[Fear The Chorizo]

Heading into this season, it was pretty apparent on paper that safety was the Packers' biggest roster weakness on the defensive side of the ball.  Add in key cornerbacks missing most of the season due to injury (Jaire) or not being on the roster due to midseason trade (Douglas), and the regular slot corner position has largely been given to their kick returner for some insane reason.  It's been well-demonstrated over the last few seasons that tight ends, RB's and receivers running routes into the middle of the field, and Barry has not done a single significant them schematically to take away what are the easier passes to complete in the NFL when compared to perimeter passes.  So not only are the Packers' defensive secondary personnel in the middle of the field lacking in terms of coverage talent, the scheme seems to want to drive opposing offenses to work the middle of the field, which is insanely stupid.

It's maddening and mindboggling that literally everyone sees it as a problem and flaw, yet they keep repeating the same thing over and over and over and over again.

I'm still holding out hope that the Packers find a way to back into the postseason and play a game, if only to give Love and the offense the experience of a road playoff game against a superior opponent.  I think that's more valuable than clawing a couple more spots in the teens up the draft board.  Either outcome of the regular season shouldn't determine whether Barry keeps his job - if MLF opts to stick with him and they once again get off to a bad start defensively next season the whole coaching staff should be dismissed, MLF included.  Continuity isn't valuable when the status quo sucks.

[homer]

Back in tank mode:

 

 

[yourout]

3 minutes ago, homer said:

Back in tank mode:

 

 

If I am management MLF just sealed his fate for the end of the season. Start looking for movers.

[CheezWizHed]

1 hour ago, HarryDoyle said:

You know the situation is dire whenever The Onion goes out of their way to put Barry and the defense on blast. The sports editor there must be a Packer fan.

Well, it used to be based out of Madison...

[HarryDoyle]

1 hour ago, homer said:

Back in tank mode:

 

 

Congratulations, Matt. You are now officially part of the problem.

[OldHeidelberg]

Sounded like he sort of threw the players under the bus for his buddy Joe too but he is going to step in a help fix the communications issues. 🙄 Barry will be here for as long as MLF is. This org is very slow to make changes. 

[HarveysWBs]

12 minutes ago, HarryDoyle said:

Congratulations, Matt. You are now officially part of the problem.

I was in the camp (and remain there, if but barely) that LaFleur is fine.  He has been able to make something out of Love that is certainly cromulent, with the potential for better, and that’s great, considering how much we’re paying 12 and 69 to not contribute.  He has a historically young offensive unit, that has gotten exactly one good game all year from its most experienced playmaker, and yet the young guys are growing—that’s all this year was about…for the offense.

But LaFleur isn’t an offensive coordinator, he’s head coach.  And his biggest issue has been managing his staff.  Pettine, Drayton, and Barry have all been retained at least a year too long, and arguably more—or never should have been in the org to begin with.

To his credit, he makes a point of doing right by his people.  He doesn’t often trash anyone in public, or make impulsive personnel decisions.  And I think this has been part of his success in building a solid culture in the locker room and staff room overall, at least from an outsider’s vantage point.  But competency has to count here.  He can lose credibility in the locker room by not holding Barry responsible for what is going on out there, and he has to be really careful now in how he handles this.  I trust that he would have a more definite read on the team temperature than I, but if I was a defensive player, I’d have a lot of questions right now, and not just about how I was performing.

[HarryDoyle]

10 minutes ago, HarveysWBs said:

I was in the camp (and remain there, if but barely) that LaFleur is fine.  He has been able to make something out of Love that is certainly cromulent, with the potential for better, and that’s great, considering how much we’re paying 12 and 69 to not contribute.  He has a historically young offensive unit, that has gotten exactly one good game all year from its most experienced playmaker, and yet the young guys are growing—that’s all this year was about…for the offense.

But LaFleur isn’t an offensive coordinator, he’s head coach.  And his biggest issue has been managing his staff.  Pettine, Drayton, and Barry have all been retained at least a year too long, and arguably more—or never should have been in the org to begin with.

To his credit, he makes a point of doing right by his people.  He doesn’t often trash anyone in public, or make impulsive personnel decisions.  And I think this has been part of his success in building a solid culture in the locker room and staff room overall, at least from an outsider’s vantage point.  But competency has to count here.  He can lose credibility in the locker room by not holding Barry responsible for what is going on out there, and he has to be really careful now in how he handles this.  I trust that he would have a more definite read on the team temperature than I, but if I was a defensive player, I’d have a lot of questions right now, and not just about how I was performing.

I agree pretty much on everything you say. He has done a fine job with the offense this year. But his weakness (and a huge one at that) is that he is loyal to a fault to his buddies on the coaching staff. I'm glad you brought up Drayton. His special teams were every bit as bad as Barry's defense. Everybody knew it. MLF had to know it. Everybody knew that if he didn't make a change that it would bite them in end, and it most certainly did, having two kicks blocked, one returned for a touchdown in losing a home playoff game to the 49ers. Continuing to go with Barry will most likely cost them the playoffs this year. Yesterday was my breaking point. There's no good reason why Barry should still be employed. But then again, I don't trust MLF to make a decent hire to replace Barry. His record in hiring a coaching staff is woefully pathetic.

[LouisEly]

1) What is firing Barry at this point of the season going to do?  Yeah, maybe there's a slim chance they make the playoffs but they're not likely going anywhere, especially with such a young team that is inexperienced in the playoffs.  They weren't making the Super Bowl short of a miracle no matter what they did this season.

B) If they did fire him, who would replace him?  At this point in the season any good replacement is going to be employed by someone else.  Who on the current staff would be an upgrade?  Who would they drag out of retirement for three games? 

I understand the sentiment and want him gone as well, but at this point in the season the time for that is the day after the season ends.  Just because MLF says that he isn't firing him right now doesn't mean that he isn't going to. 

In leadership, there is a fine line between disloyalty and being too loyal.  If you fire people too soon/frequently, nobody good will want to come there because they'd be afraid of being fired for one bad season and then you end up with the Carolina Panthers.  The other end of the spectrum is just as dangerous as waiting too long.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I'd add that I thought MLF did a pretty good job of hiring his initial offensive staff - however after several key coordinators/coaches left for head coaching/promotional coordinating gigs, I think much of the promotion from within hasn't been as solid...but it's tough to tell.

MLF hiring Barry after canning Pettine has been a failure with how many draft picks and free agent signings have been made for the defense every single offseason.  I can see the pros-cons of waiting until the offseason to fire Barry, but then again the same thing could've been said after last season ended and nothing happened.  The defense should have been the strength of this year's team given the roster and just how young the offense was after moving on from #12....instead, it's just more of the same, where if the defense had performed up to expectations this team may have given the Lions a run for the division despite a rocky start to the year.

[young guns]

One advantage to firing him now would be if you had someone on your staff you wanted to have a look at in the position or maybe someone on a college team you wanted a head start on trying to woo away(part of me is still wanting leonhard), but if you don't have either than I guess waiting till after the bear game is fine.

[NeedMoreFans]

1 hour ago, HarveysWBs said:

cromulent

Sorry this doesn't add to the discussion, but I thought the use of this word was spectacular. 

What does add to the discussion is that according to Eric Stokes, the message today was that explosive plays will get you beat.  https://twitter.com/ByRyanWood/status/1736843776641872361

 

[Matt Breen]

This is brilliant

 

[yourout]

1 hour ago, NeedMoreFans said:

Sorry this doesn't add to the discussion, but I thought the use of this word was spectacular. 

What does add to the discussion is that according to Eric Stokes, the message today was that explosive plays will get you beat.  https://twitter.com/ByRyanWood/status/1736843776641872361

 

What a revelation.

[igor67]

Just adding that even all these years later that the Onion showing why they are America's Finest news source is an impressive legacy.

[HarryDoyle]

2 hours ago, LouisEly said:

1) What is firing Barry at this point of the season going to do?  Yeah, maybe there's a slim chance they make the playoffs but they're not likely going anywhere, especially with such a young team that is inexperienced in the playoffs.  They weren't making the Super Bowl short of a miracle no matter what they did this season.

B) If they did fire him, who would replace him?  At this point in the season any good replacement is going to be employed by someone else.  Who on the current staff would be an upgrade?  Who would they drag out of retirement for three games? 

I understand the sentiment and want him gone as well, but at this point in the season the time for that is the day after the season ends.  Just because MLF says that he isn't firing him right now doesn't mean that he isn't going to. 

In leadership, there is a fine line between disloyalty and being too loyal.  If you fire people too soon/frequently, nobody good will want to come there because they'd be afraid of being fired for one bad season and then you end up with the Carolina Panthers.  The other end of the spectrum is just as dangerous as waiting too long.

This misses the point IMHO. Sometimes a firing mid-season is meant to draw a line of what is acceptable and what is not. A reminder that this league is a performance business and nobody is ever safe. I am, obviously, 100% behind such a move. Now.

[yourout]

27 minutes ago, HarryDoyle said:

This misses the point IMHO. Sometimes a firing mid-season is meant to draw a line of what is acceptable and what is not. A reminder that this league is a performance business and nobody is ever safe. I am, obviously, 100% behind such a move. Now.

And he not had reason to can him at the end of last year this would have been more tolerable but the fact is he should have been ditched last winter and if you don't do it now you're sending a really bad message.

[HarveysWBs]

2 hours ago, NeedMoreFans said:

Sorry this doesn't add to the discussion, but I thought the use of this word was spectacular.

 

I almost went with “thoroughly whelming,” but cromulent is both more succinct and decidedly more fun.

[Sixtolezcano]

50 minutes ago, yourout said:

And he not had reason to can him at the end of last year this would have been more tolerable but the fact is he should have been ditched last winter and if you don't do it now you're sending a really bad message.

I totally agree with this sentiment. At this point there is no way I trust MLF firing Barry this off-season. Either MLF has no idea that Barry is a failure or…what?

[LouisEly]

1 hour ago, HarryDoyle said:

This misses the point IMHO. Sometimes a firing mid-season is meant to draw a line of what is acceptable and what is not. A reminder that this league is a performance business and nobody is ever safe. I am, obviously, 100% behind such a move. Now.

This misses the point - who is going to take over as DC after they fire him?

Second, it's not "mid-season" - there's three games left.

Third, if "nobody is ever safe"... then why would someone want to work for you?

[Sixtolezcano]

36 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

This misses the point - who is going to take over as DC after they fire him?

Second, it's not "mid-season" - there's three games left.

Third, if "nobody is ever safe"... then why would someone want to work for you?

Because almost all coaches strive for a NFL coordinator position. Ask Matt Patricia on the Eagles, and he was a former HC. Plus you do everything possible to win games and make the playoffs. I really don’t think changing DC at any point in the season would be negative, especially with all the defensive coaches (9) still there to maintain continuity and relationships.

[CheezWizHed]

33 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

This misses the point - who is going to take over as DC after they fire him?

Does it really matter at this point? I'm sure someone can step up and do it for 3 games.  

If MLF was firing people left and right, then "no one would feel safe" in a bad way.  When Barry has 3 years of bad results... I think it is safe to say that no one will see it as a rash firing. 

Personally, I can't wait for him to be fired and people will stop slandering my real name.  Can we just call him Joe instead?? 😂

[BrewerFan]

9 hours ago, Sixtolezcano said:

I totally agree with this sentiment. At this point there is no way I trust MLF firing Barry this off-season. Either MLF has no idea that Barry is a failure or…what?

I don't trust the structure anymore. Everyone is blaming MLF. Maybe rightly so, maybe it's not his call because it hasn't been his call at times in the past(as I mentioned, extra year of Pettine, Rizzi, Drayton pushed on him, all things Coordinator decisions he seemingly had little say over). 

Is it Murphy? When that idiot opened his mouth talking about how they'll bring Rodgers back if things don't work out how they want them to(or however he worded it) well before the trade was completed, seemingly giving the Jets some control, it was more confirmation he's taking a heavier hand in the Football operations. That's NOT how Harlan turned this ship around or how he ran things under McCarthy. 

 

I trust the player evaluation process right now...mostly. MLF is a good offensive coach(IMO). There are some questions about the rest of the leadership. Gutekunst is the one guy who's gone from really hated to having a little more respect among fans. He's dating pretty well, but there seems to be some dysfunction at the top. 

[homer]

MLF is probably best suited to be an OC and I think he'd be a really good one if that's where his entire focus was.