2024-25 Misc Offseason News

[MVP2110]

2 hours ago, markedman5 said:

https://x.com/jonheyman/status/1897328821793349974?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw

This tells me the Brewers really weren't interested in him

[tmwiese55]

I'm sure I'm way less confident in the internal 3B options than they are, but at that price or 500k-1m more I think I'd have taken the vet presence insurance on the roster.   Have to remember injuries are inevitable too, so having a guy like him as a baseline/floor could've helped

[TURBO]

Rubbing some more salt into the Shane Smith wound:

Rule 5 pick Shane Smith pitched three scoreless innings and struck out five versus the Dodgers on Saturday.

He should be a lock for the White Sox roster, and he might find himself in the rotation at this rate.

 

**a move we made that I will NEVER understand.  I'd go as far as calling it an asinine move...

[Jopal78]

2 hours ago, TURBO said:

Rubbing some more salt into the Shane Smith wound:

Rule 5 pick Shane Smith pitched three scoreless innings and struck out five versus the Dodgers on Saturday.

He should be a lock for the White Sox roster, and he might find himself in the rotation at this rate.

 

**a move we made that I will NEVER understand.  I'd go as far as calling it an asinine move...

Smith is soon to be 25 and has pitched less than 170 innings total since high school. Unless he’s some sort of pitching savant my guess is his inexperience will catch up to him in the majors when the games count and wouldn’t be surprised if he finds his way back to the Brewers org at some point as simply being too green.

[TURBO]

3 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Smith is soon to be 25 and has pitched less than 170 innings total since high school. Unless he’s some sort of pitching savant my guess is his inexperience will catch up to him in the majors when the games count and wouldn’t be surprised if he finds his way back to the Brewers org at some point as simply being too green.

I'll take that bet.  Kid is a stud, looked like a stud since we drafted him.  There was no reason, ZERO in fact, to leave him unprotected.

[Jopal78]

1 minute ago, TURBO said:

I'll take that bet.  Kid is a stud, looked like a stud since we drafted him.  There was no reason, ZERO in fact, to leave him unprotected.

Funny, he was an undrafted free agent. 
 

He was unprotected because he has less than a full season of innings total since finishing high school 7 years ago. Maybe the White Sox stash him all year because they’re terrible but they won’t if he’s simply not ready for prime time. 
 

[TURBO]

2 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Funny, he was an undrafted free agent. 
 

meh, you know what I mean.

It was a mistake leaving him unprotected, simple as that.

[gregmag]

59 minutes ago, TURBO said:

meh, you know what I mean.

It was a mistake leaving him unprotected, simple as that.

I wish people wouldn’t say things like this. “I’m right, it’s as simple as that.”  Actually, it isn’t. The Brewers had one really good reason to leave him unprotected: they’re trying to win, and they clearly didn’t think he could help this year. Did they make the right call?  I don’t know, and I doubt we’ll know for a while. Clearly he’s talented, but so are a lot of guys who don’t make it. Five k’s in a spring training game doesn’t move the predictive needle an inch. It’s as complicated as that.

[ghostdrew]

1 hour ago, TURBO said:

I'll take that bet.  Kid is a stud, looked like a stud since we drafted him.  There was no reason, ZERO in fact, to leave him unprotected.

Yeah he Isn't a stud quick drinking the brewers koolaid and wasn't drafted facts matter.

[Team Canada]

30 minutes ago, ghostdrew said:

Yeah he Isn't a stud quick drinking the brewers koolaid and wasn't drafted facts matter.

Both from a grammatical and content perspective, you can do better.

[TURBO]

10 hours ago, gregmag said:

I wish people wouldn’t say things like this. “I’m right, it’s as simple as that.”  Actually, it isn’t. The Brewers had one really good reason to leave him unprotected: they’re trying to win, and they clearly didn’t think he could help this year. Did they make the right call?  I don’t know, and I doubt we’ll know for a while. Clearly he’s talented, but so are a lot of guys who don’t make it. Five k’s in a spring training game doesn’t move the predictive needle an inch. It’s as complicated as that.

I'm not basing my opinion on one 5 strikeout spring training game.  His body of work points to success.  I could see that in Appleton, and he did nothing thereafter to make me think otherwise.

Leaving him unprotected because they are trying to win?  So you are saying, had they kept him, it would be a sign of them not trying to win?  

I disagree with your thought process, which isn't complicated at all.

[Jopal78]

20 minutes ago, TURBO said:

I'm not basing my opinion on one 5 strikeout spring training game.  His body of work points to success.  I could see that in Appleton, and he did nothing thereafter to make me think otherwise.

Leaving him unprotected because they are trying to win?  So you are saying, had they kept him, it would be a sign of them not trying to win?  

I disagree with your thought process, which isn't complicated at all.

And how many teams are gonna burn a 40 man roster spot on a 25 year old relief pitcher/swing man with less than 200 total innings pitched across seven years? Unless  that team has a 40 man roster devoid of talent, not many.

Maybe Shane Smith is the second coming of Christy Mathewson, but I kind of doubt  it, and believe his rawness/inexperience will get exposed once the game start to count and therefore a decent possibility exists he returns to the Brewers organization.
 

 

[ghostdrew]

11 hours ago, Team Canada said:

Both from a grammatical and content perspective, you can do better.

Thank you for that wonderful advice

[SF70]

1 hour ago, Jopal78 said:

And how many teams are gonna burn a 40 man roster spot on a 25 year old relief pitcher/swing man with less than 200 total innings pitched across seven years? Unless  that team has a 40 man roster devoid of talent, not many.

Maybe Shane Smith is the second coming of Christy Mathewson, but I kind of doubt  it, and believe his rawness/inexperience will get exposed once the game start to count and therefore a decent possibility exists he returns to the Brewers organization.
 

 

I don’t think so. Worst team in baseball can stash a raw, inexperienced arm like Smith as long as he’s touching 100mph like he is currently. 

[TURBO]

2 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

Maybe Shane Smith is the second coming of Christy Mathewson, but I kind of doubt  it, and believe his rawness/inexperience will get exposed once the game start to count and therefore a decent possibility exists he returns to the Brewers organization.
 

 

 

[Jopal78]

3 hours ago, TURBO said:

 

Of course it is. Just like your opinion  he’s a “stud” or was a mistake to leave him unprotected. 
 

I do know that Gus Varland had twice as much experience at the same age as Smith, and Varland flopped as a Rule 5.

Like I said, maybe Smith has enough sheer talent to get by on a club that was historically bad last year, but the track record for inexperienced Rule 5 pitchers sticking in the big leagues an entire year isn’t great. 

[CheeseheadInQC]

42 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Of course it is. Just like your opinion  he’s a “stud” or was a mistake to leave him unprotected. 
 

I do know that Gus Varland had twice as much experience at the same age as Smith, and Varland flopped as a Rule 5.

Like I said, maybe Smith has enough sheer talent to get by on a club that was historically bad last year, but the track record for inexperienced Rule 5 pitchers sticking in the big leagues an entire year isn’t great. 

I mean, Varland had a couple of seasons of high 5, low 6 ERAs in AA, while Smith, in his first shot starting as a pro, was one of the best pitchers in the Southern League.

[Jopal78]

36 minutes ago, CheeseheadInQC said:

I mean, Varland had a couple of seasons of high 5, low 6 ERAs in AA, while Smith, in his first shot starting as a pro, was one of the best pitchers in the Southern League.

Like I said, time will tell. My guess is a 25 year old man with under 200 total innings pitched since he finished high school won’t be able to keep pace in the major leagues, but it will be a great story if he does 

[CheeseheadInQC]

29 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Like I said, time will tell. My guess is a 25 year old man with under 200 total innings pitched since he finished high school won’t be able to keep pace in the major leagues, but it will be a great story if he does 

Eh, he might or might not make it, but unless he suffers a similar injury I doubt his lack of innings in college will have any bearing on it at this point. Kevin Kelly isn’t a bad experience comp from recent Rule 5 picks. Basically two minor league seasons, one at the lower levels, one at the upper levels. Because of his move to the rotation, Smith actually had more pro innings. That pick has worked out well for the Rays.

[sveumrules]

1 hour ago, CheeseheadInQC said:

I mean, Varland had a couple of seasons of high 5, low 6 ERAs in AA, while Smith, in his first shot starting as a pro, was one of the best pitchers in the Southern League.

Yeah, Smith has been one of the best pitchers in all of the minor leagues the last two years. Among 441 pitchers with at least 150 IP over that stretch he ranks…

2.86 xFIP (2nd) | 24.3 K-BB% (3rd) | 32.4 K% (4th) | 1.01 WHIP (5th) | 3.03 FIP (5th) | 2.63 ERA (7th) | .193 AVG (12th)

I can’t help but wonder if there wasn’t some element of “do right by the player” going on here, similar to when they dealt Erceg to Oakland.

Even if the Brewers added Smith to the 40 Man, he still would have had a long road to earning consistent time on the 26 Man with the amount of bullpen depth the Brewers have.

Leaving him unprotected for the R5 gives him an immediate path to a long leash earning service time & MLB salary on the 26 Man, which as an undrafted free agent with a lengthy injury history is pretty a big deal.

[gregmag]

Maybe, but after this season the Brewers will likely lose four of their five top SPs to free agency or preemptive trades. If they thought Shane Smith was one of their 12 best SPs right now, it wouldn’t exactly be doing him dirty to build up his innings this year and then give him a real shot at the rotation in 2026.  They saw the same results from Smith that we all saw, and they weren’t moved. They certainly could be wrong; Smith could be better by 2026 than one or more of whichever six out of Myers, Ashby, Mis, Hall, Henderson, Hunt, Rodriguez, and whomever else they put in the rotation. Hell, I would have protected him. But they aren’t fools, and they made an informed decision. I’m not inclined to bet a lot on Smith’s immediate success.

[markedman5]

TJ for Cole

 

[Jopal78]

4 hours ago, sveumrules said:

Yeah, Smith has been one of the best pitchers in all of the minor leagues the last two years. Among 441 pitchers with at least 150 IP over that stretch he ranks…

2.86 xFIP (2nd) | 24.3 K-BB% (3rd) | 32.4 K% (4th) | 1.01 WHIP (5th) | 3.03 FIP (5th) | 2.63 ERA (7th) | .193 AVG (12th)

I can’t help but wonder if there wasn’t some element of “do right by the player” going on here, similar to when they dealt Erceg to Oakland.

Even if the Brewers added Smith to the 40 Man, he still would have had a long road to earning consistent time on the 26 Man with the amount of bullpen depth the Brewers have.

Leaving him unprotected for the R5 gives him an immediate path to a long leash earning service time & MLB salary on the 26 Man, which as an undrafted free agent with a lengthy injury history is pretty a big deal.

You’re right, if the leash is in fact long. Can a pitcher who hasn’t pitched all that much since high school make the jump from AA to the majors? Even the lowly White Sox won’t keep someone around who can’t perform at the major league level. 

[sveumrules]

10 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

You’re right, if the leash is in fact long. Can a pitcher who hasn’t pitched all that much since high school make the jump from AA to the majors? Even the lowly White Sox won’t keep someone around who can’t perform at the major league level. 

No one pitched much in 2020 on account of the pandemic, then Shane lost most of the 2021-22 seasons to TJ.

Since then he’s been healthy and one of the best pitchers in the minors for the last two years.

Going back to Erceg, he threw a grand total of 147 innings spaced out over ten calendar years after high school and before making it to MLB.

[Jopal78]

22 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

No one pitched much in 2020 on account of the pandemic, then Shane lost most of the 2021-22 seasons to TJ.

Since then he’s been healthy and one of the best pitchers in the minors for the last two years.

Going back to Erceg, he threw a grand total of 147 innings spaced out over ten calendar years after high school and before making it to MLB.

One of the best pitchers in the minor leagues? Be serious. Smith wasn’t even the best in his own organization last year. He’s not even in the White Sox’s Top 25 prospects, and he’s a swing man/reliever. One of the best pitchers in the minor leagues, ha!
 

Your anecdotal evidence about Erceg also omits he was a position player (3B) in the Brewers organization for YEARS before turning to pitching. Plus,  Erceg was never on the 40 man roster and was Rule 5 eligible in 2021 and 2022 and went unselected. It’s a straw man argument and not a particularly good one