Under the Radar (3B, 2B, SS) Targets

[bigred]

1 hour ago, Scooterfletcher said:

Why would Baty for someone like Tyler Woessener and EBJ be a deal people here would be upset with?

Most people here probably wouldn't be. The Mets probably would be though. They'd probably hang up the phone, after laughing first. Baty was one of their top prospects not long ago, and he's still fairly young. They won't just give him to us for a couple of our low/lesser known prospects, 1 of which, is absolutely horrible. Stearns didn't become stupid overnight. 

 

[Scooterfletcher]

4 hours ago, bigred said:

Most people here probably wouldn't be. The Mets probably would be though. They'd probably hang up the phone, after laughing first. Baty was one of their top prospects not long ago, and he's still fairly young. They won't just give him to us for a couple of our low/lesser known prospects, 1 of which, is absolutely horrible. Stearns didn't become stupid overnight. 

 

Ok how about Baty and a 30-40 Mets ranked young minor league arm for Crod?

[BrewCrewBlueDevil]

Baty for C Rod or Patrick even up?

[bigred]

9 hours ago, Scooterfletcher said:

Ok how about Baty and a 30-40 Mets ranked young minor league arm for Crod?

Imo, you overvalue our prospects, which is to be expected since you're a fan. Why would they trade us Baty AND a top 30-40 of theirs, for only 1 minor league pitcher of ours, who hasn't shown much? That just doesn't make sense to me. 

[wibadgers23]

DeJong goes to the Nationals for $1 million.  Not that I was clamoring for DeJong but it really makes you wonder what we're doing.  Are we really going with Durbin/Monasterio/Dunn?  Iglesias is about the only guy left on the free agent market.

[Ro Mueller]

At this point, I’m starting to guess that our under-the-radar 3B target is actually Sal Frelick.

My bad idea of the week is to sign Justin Turner to be a primary DH and backup 3B/1B. Maybe he can find some more EV and HR than he had last year, like Cutch and Winker rediscovering how to hit again after leaving the Crew.

[MVP2110]

6 minutes ago, wibadgers23 said:

DeJong goes to the Nationals for $1 million.  Not that I was clamoring for DeJong but it really makes you wonder what we're doing.  Are we really going with Durbin/Monasterio/Dunn?  Iglesias is about the only guy left on the free agent market.

At this point yes. DeJong isn't very good. Rather go with the young guys and see if they have something. If they don't the Brewers can acquire someone midseason or at the deadline. 

[ClosetBrewerFan]

This is disappointing.  DeJong is nothing special but I would have done $1M for insurance in case the young guys dont pan out.  I hope they bring in some veteran on at least on minor league contract.

[Austin Tatious]

I’m glad we didn’t settle on DeJong.  Bad peripheral numbers that would have drove us nuts and he’d be a progress stopper for young guys.  That salary and where he ended up shows that winning teams were not clamoring for him.  

I am hoping that some surprise is looming. Either a trade that has been in the works or some confidence in an internal option, whether it’s moving Frelick or a young guy like Boeve being healthy and ready soon.  

Regarding Frelick, he can be a real sparkplug but I hope there is a plan to tap into some extra base pop.  Three homers and thirty ribbies is not what anyone is looking for.  Love his energy, athleticism, and defense but we need respectable pop from him.  

If Frelick can get his .OPS from .655 to .740, with say, a .270 average, 8-10 homers, 32 doubles, 6 triples and 60 rbis while using his athleticism to convert to 3B nicely, that would be a huge plus.  Those are hardly excessive demands.   The guy was a first round pick, has excellent athleticism and has ability.  It’s time to take a big step.  

[TURBO]

1 hour ago, wibadgers23 said:

  Iglesias is about the only guy left on the free agent market.

I thought the Mets signed him yesterday?

[Austin Tatious]

I think we are going to love Boeve’s hit tool, but it will be interesting to see if he’s really going to be a first baseman and not play 3B, and to see where he is with injury recovery.  One way or another, I’ve got to believe he needs another step in the minors.   

[TURBO]

6 minutes ago, TURBO said:

I thought the Mets signed him yesterday?

I guess not, can't find what I thought I read yesterday...I guess I'm just making things up now.  :(

[sveumrules]

1 hour ago, Ro Mueller said:

At this point, I’m starting to guess that our under-the-radar 3B target is actually Sal Frelick.

My bad idea of the week is to sign Justin Turner to be a primary DH and backup 3B/1B. Maybe he can find some more EV and HR than he had last year, like Cutch and Winker rediscovering how to hit again after leaving the Crew.

Will definitely be interesting to see how much infield Sal plays this spring.

As for Turner, I think Black has first crack at the backup 1B sometimes DH role. After being letdown by so many old DH/1B only types over the years maybe they’re finally over it. Maybe Turner’s never wanted to come here to begin with.

[long ball]

I think the underrated issue with the current infield options is that we don't really know how well Turang or Ortiz will hit either. Even if they moved Frelick to the infield isn't going to provide an offensive boost. 

I'm all for letting the kids play. I don't want to just pigeon hole Turang or any of the other young guys into a platoon role, but it's not that hard to see a scenario where at least one of the young guys just never pans out with the bat. 

I still think they make a move to add a veteran infielder before opening day. Going off of memory, I think Iglesias and Rodgers are the only guys left in free agency that would fit that role. I'm starting to think a waiver claim/trade at the end of spring training may be how that veteran is acquired. 

[Lathund]

DeJong over the last three years has put up a 205/.263/.372 slash line, good for 76 wRC+. Yes, he does it in a way (power) that our internal options at the position do not, but in the end it's the actual overall output that matters. And I'm pretty sure that among Dunn/Collins/Monasterio/Capra they can work a combined 76 wRC+ or better. And I think Durbin is going to be quite a bit better than that. Like I don't think even a realistic best case scenario is that much above a league average 100 wRC+, but league average offense with above average baserunning and above average defense is a 2-3 WAR player with a full seasons worth of PA. 

It's less than Adames, and I still would want another infielder to go with Durbin, Turang and Ortiz, but many people on here have decided that he's somehow a black hole, a sub-replacement player, and I don't think it's right. If nothing else, a player who had as many stolen bases as he had strikeouts in his minor league career is something I think I've seen before, and would love to see what that looks like. 

[brewmann04]

Durbin or Dunn have not done anything at the major league level and that putting a lot of trust there 

[endaround]

Can we stop calling them "young guys" and "kids"?

Durbin is 25, Dunn is 27. Ortiz is 26 (barely making the cutoff of not being 27). Turang is 25. Monasterio is 28.

They are all in the mid career age point for MLB players. We are not dealing with 20-22 year old recent college draftees or finally ready to play high school draftees.

[sveumrules]

3 minutes ago, endaround said:

Can we stop calling them "young guys" and "kids"?

Durbin is 25, Dunn is 27. Ortiz is 26 (barely making the cutoff of not being 27). Turang is 25. Monasterio is 28.

They are all in the mid career age point for MLB players. We are not dealing with 20-22 year old recent college draftees or finally ready to play high school draftees.

Turang and Ortiz have potential upside remaining over what they’ve already shown in MLB.

Dunn has hardly played and Durbin hasn’t played at all.

They’re all still kids or young guys relative to their individual MLB timelines.

If 22 is the cutoff there were only eight young guys or kids that were qualified hitters last year,

That definition might be a tad restrictive.

[wallus]

Urias to the big spending A's

[endaround]

1 hour ago, wallus said:

Urias to the big spending A's

Really would like to now the story of Urias. Is he not coachable? A pain to deal with? For Milwaukee he had two seasons with a wRC+ of around 110 which would qualify as a big bopper for Milwaukee and more than enough to fill in at 3B where he seems OK defensively. He was decent in his time with Seattle last year. Obviously this isn't just a Milwaukee thing with Boston basically just letting him go.

[Kozlowski Klub]

On 2/16/2025 at 10:50 AM, long ball said:

I think the underrated issue with the current infield options is that we don't really know how well Turang or Ortiz will hit either. Even if they moved Frelick to the infield isn't going to provide an offensive boost. 

I'm all for letting the kids play. I don't want to just pigeon hole Turang or any of the other young guys into a platoon role, but it's not that hard to see a scenario where at least one of the young guys just never pans out with the bat. 

I still think they make a move to add a veteran infielder before opening day. Going off of memory, I think Iglesias and Rodgers are the only guys left in free agency that would fit that role. I'm starting to think a waiver claim/trade at the end of spring training may be how that veteran is acquired. 

This is an underrated factor nobody seems to be talking about. Yes, we have a hole at one of the infield spots currently but compounding that problem is that Turang and Ortiz both didn't hit well the second half of last year. Part of that was probably them just coming back to reality, but it is certainly not a guarantee those guy will hit which could make our infield legitimately terrible offensively. 

If you look at a guy like Urias, he hit initially and then regressed as pitchers got more information on him in year 2 and 3. Not saying that will happen to Turang and Ortiz but to just assuming they will be good enough offensively is also wishful thinking imo. 

[nate82]

1 hour ago, Kozlowski Klub said:

This is an underrated factor nobody seems to be talking about. Yes, we have a hole at one of the infield spots currently but compounding that problem is that Turang and Ortiz both didn't hit well the second half of last year. Part of that was probably them just coming back to reality, but it is certainly not a guarantee those guy will hit which could make our infield legitimately terrible offensively. 

Ortiz had an injury that impacted his swing where he had to change his swing in the middle of the season.  That is never a good thing in the middle of the season.  I would take Ortiz second half with a very fine pinch of salt.  Ortiz didn't start to show some improvement until about September.  I think his first half will be closer to what you can expect of him going forward career wise.

[bigred]

On 2/16/2025 at 7:53 AM, Ro Mueller said:

At this point, I’m starting to guess that our under-the-radar 3B target is actually Sal Frelick.

My bad idea of the week is to sign Justin Turner to be a primary DH and backup 3B/1B. Maybe he can find some more EV and HR than he had last year, like Cutch and Winker rediscovering how to hit again after leaving the Crew.

If their plan is to actually have Frelick play 3rd periodically, then I only have 1 thing to say. May God have mercy on us this season. If I was GM, I would have gladly paid Dejong $2-3M no matter how he plays. His veteran presence in the clubhouse alone, would've been worth paying him that. 

[CheeseheadInQC]

44 minutes ago, bigred said:

If their plan is to actually have Frelick play 3rd periodically, then I only have 1 thing to say. May God have mercy on us this season. If I was GM, I would have gladly paid Dejong $2-3M no matter how he plays. His veteran presence in the clubhouse alone, would've been worth paying him that. 

Three things:

1. Thanks to the Canadian TV show “Shoresy” I exclusively associate the term “veteran presence” with hockey.

2. I ask this as a genuine question, is DeJong that guy? Not all veterans are necessarily guys who add a ton of leadership value.

3. There is a good chance Frelick adds more offensive value than DeJong, especially if you take base running into account.

[wiguy94]

11 minutes ago, CheeseheadInQC said:

Three things:

1. Thanks to the Canadian TV show “Shoresy” I exclusively associate the term “veteran presence” with hockey.

2. I ask this as a genuine question, is DeJong that guy? Not all veterans are necessarily guys who add a ton of leadership value.

3. There is a good chance Frelick adds more offensive value than DeJong, especially if you take base running into account.

Frelick had -5.6 offensive value per fangraphs in 524 PA.

DeJong had -5.1 offensive value per fangraphs in 482 PA. If he continued that pace through 524 PA he would have had -5.5 offensive value. So he was minisculely more valuable than Frelick last year offensively.

By RE24 which assigns run values based on the 24 base/out states, Frelick was at -2.20 runs in 2024. DeJong was at -13.93.

Considering DeJong is entering his age 31 season and Frelick is entering his age 25 season, I think it's a pretty safe bet that Frelick will be more valuable than DeJong offensive in 2025.