When does Arnold start to receive some criticism

[Samurai Bucky]

59 minutes ago, bigred said:

Yes, and those teams will almost certainly make a few trades to actually try and fix those flaws, instead of sitting on their hands and passively doing nothing, and hoping and praying for the best. 

This isn't fantasy baseball.  Go ahead and play this game and it might help a little:  https://www.ootpdevelopments.com/out-of-the-park-baseball-home/

By the way, I think this guy might be waiting for his world series victory since the Padres didn't sit on their hands...

[82brewcrew82]

7 minutes ago, Thurston Fluff said:

Those were the days. When those two teams won the World Series it was well worth not getting back to the playoffs for three to five years after it. Seeing KC win with the players we traded didn't hurt at all because we won a World Series due to those trades.

In my opinion, sarcasm aside, that was a very different situation.  That was a go for it move because that window was going to close and that organization did not have the player strength this one has.  I actually think they could survive a Sabathia type move without mortgaging the future right now.

[liveforoctober]

1 hour ago, bigred said:

Yes, and those teams will almost certainly make a few trades to actually try and fix those flaws, instead of sitting on their hands and passively doing nothing, and hoping and praying for the best. 

So if the Brewers get Suarez this year and get knocked out of the playoffs in the first round again by someone what will your shtick next year be?

[bigred]

1 hour ago, yfinn6 said:

Why am I not surprised that you're the type of person to make up a scenario to get mad about, then get mad about that scenario? On brand. 

No one is "accepting" mediocrity. One team can win the WS every year -- one. You've set yourself up nicely to always say we're not trying to win when the Brewers - to the surprise of literally no one - doesn't win the World Series. 

Championships absolutely matter. We live in the real world and understand the Brewers have disadvantages. They're still in contention every year and have prospects to send. Last I checked, the deadline hasn't arrived and a deal can still be made. Rather than endlessly complain and and attempt to gaslight us, you could come up with some trade scenarios? 

Most here sure do seem to have accepted mediocrity. They obviously would rather not even attempt to make meaningful moves to get better, and several have made it clear that they mainly care about how we finish in the regular season, and really don't care much about playoff results. That's not settling? Since when? 

[bigred]

1 hour ago, Samurai Bucky said:

This isn't fantasy baseball.  Go ahead and play this game and it might help a little:  https://www.ootpdevelopments.com/out-of-the-park-baseball-home/

By the way, I think this guy might be waiting for his world series victory since the Padres didn't sit on their hands...

Never once said that every trade will make teams champions. At least those teams try. We rarely do. We'd rather hoard prospects and watch many flame out and lose tradevale or have their careers shortened by injury. 

[bigred]

54 minutes ago, liveforoctober said:

So if the Brewers get Suarez this year and get knocked out of the playoffs in the first round again by someone what will your shtick next year be?

Won't be any schtick. At least they would have at least tried. Never once said all trades work out for the best. 

[Thurston Fluff]

55 minutes ago, 82brewcrew82 said:

In my opinion, sarcasm aside, that was a very different situation.  That was a go for it move because that window was going to close and that organization did not have the player strength this one has.  I actually think they could survive a Sabathia type move without mortgaging the future right now.

The Sabathia trade was not a bad trade for the time. We were trying to end a long playoff drought and were trying to get rid of the image of perennial losers. Just getting to the playoffs was an important step. But if anyone asked me then if I'd have been satisfied with two playoff appearances for the next decade I'd have said no. It also wasn't an all in move. We still had a good young core just starting to come into their own.

The Greinke trade was the very definition of all in. It got us one playoff and five years of futility afterward. Now compare that to the current run. Since the 2017 run, which went deeper than the 2011 all in season, we've missed the playoff once and are still one of the best teams in the league. Would us trading three of our young players now have gotten us a World Series ring? We don't know which is why people keep saying we should.

What we can do is a thought experiment to illustrate why going all in isn't the best way to get us over the hump so many seem to think it is. Say last season Devon Williams was on another team instead of injured. At the trade deadline we had a good team but could use some bullpen help. So we traded Patrick, Collins and one of our younger prospects to get Williams. Now we have a "needle mover" closer to close out game three of our first round playoff series. We wouldn't be competing for the best record in baseball this season to get us to the same result we ended up with anyway.

[Thurston Fluff]

33 minutes ago, bigred said:

Won't be any schtick. At least they would have at least tried. Never once said all trades work out for the best. 

Sticking to an organizational philosophy that got us further in the playoffs than the all in year of 2011 seems like trying to me. You seem to be saying doing whatever is necessary to win now would be better than what we're doing because what were doing hasn't got us the result we wanted yet. Which would be a valid argument if the method you're proposing didn't also fail to produce the results we wanted. Arguing for a way to do things that produced worse results doesn't make sense to me.

[JCREW]

6 hours ago, SF70 said:

Patience is all that is needed. Patience to let our elite FO do what they think is needed to win a WS in the near future.

Patience is tough. This year's team has a few round holes, but the available talent seem to be squarish pegs. Of all the Brewer teams I've watched, this is the one that seems like the right upgrade could vault them from playoff appearance toward deep playoff run. 

HOWEVER, the guys who are actually available (on just about any of the top trade target lists) aren't neat and tidy upgrades. They aren't slam-dunk fixes. Even though this is the team I want to upgrade, I don't really think that many of the available upgrades are the right use of resources. 

O'Hearn or stand pat.

 

[bigred]

21 minutes ago, Thurston Fluff said:

Sticking to an organizational philosophy that got us further in the playoffs than the all in year of 2011 seems like trying to me. You seem to be saying doing whatever is necessary to win now would be better than what we're doing because what were doing hasn't got us the result we wanted yet. Which would be a valid argument if the method you're proposing didn't also fail to produce the results we wanted. Arguing for a way to do things that produced worse results doesn't make sense to me.

Yes, I do think they should try and win now. As a small market team, they don't get many opportunities like they have this year, so I think they should seize it, and go for it. If having 1 of the best records in MLB and sweeping the Dodgers this season isn't enough to go for it, then what will be enough? The answer, is nothing will ever be good enough. We'll just have to hope and pray the planets align JUST so, to MAYBE win a championship. 

[Thurston Fluff]

10 minutes ago, bigred said:

Yes, I don't think they should try and win now. As a small market team, they don't get many opportunities like they have this year, so I think they should seize it, and go for it. If1 of the best records in MLB and sweeping the Dodgers this season isn't enough to go fir it, then what will be enough? The answer, is nothing will be good enough. 

What is so special about this year vs last year? A year IIRC you also thought was "the" year. It was supposed to be the start of another group of young players not the end of one. We have very few core players about to become free agents. If you think Woody is a core member he's the only one we don't have control over beyond this season. All the position players are under team control and we have replacements in house on the pitching side. This is not some sort of magical year where all the pieces fell into place that cannot possibly be repeated next season. The reason this isn't that one magical year is because the front office doesn't subscribe to the magical year philosophy. We are better off because it doesn't.

[Jim French Stepstool]

11 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

Are you saying it's NOT?

Yophery Rodriguez, the 33rd pick and a pretty good pitching prospect for Priester. 

 

If THAT isn't big, nothing is going to satisfy you...

What do you think he'd cost now in a trade? 6 years of team control over a guy with an ERA in the low 3s who is going deep into games? 

But that's... not a big trade?

 

But.....but.....Ryan Dempster & Kevin Millahhhhh didn't fawn over it obsessively. It didn't happen on the last day of July, with the clock running. It didn't MOVE THE NEEDLE!!!!!!!

[liveforoctober]

8 minutes ago, bigred said:

Yes, I do think they should try and win now. As a small market team, they don't get many opportunities like they have this year, so I think they should seize it, and go for it. If having 1 of the best records in MLB and sweeping the Dodgers this season isn't enough to go for it, then what will be enough? The answer, is nothing will ever be good enough. We'll just have to hope and pray the planets align JUST so, to MAYBE win a championship. 

So where is your line on this year's deadline to acquire someone? If the Diamondbacks ask for Jesus Made in exchange for Suarez, would you do it?

[Underachiever]

If having one of the best records in baseball so far this year is mediocrity, your definition of mediocrity is skewed. If winning 93 games last year was mediocrity, only 4 teams of 30 were above mediocre. Mediocre teams are more than a deadline move away from being serious WS contenders. The mediocre teams are the teams debating whether or not to sell. 
 

I want the Brewers to get a Suarez or O’Hearn because I don’t want a repeat of the past two years in the playoffs, and I think a bat will help. But under no circumstances do I believe that what I’m watching is mediocre, no matter how many times the word is used by some to describe what I’m seeing. 
 

and as far as “settling”? I have no control over what the team does, and it’s impossible to prove the effect of a trade that didn’t happen.

 

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, bigred said:

Most here sure do seem to have accepted mediocrity. They obviously would rather not even attempt to make meaningful moves to get better, and several have made it clear that they mainly care about how we finish in the regular season, and really don't care much about playoff results. That's not settling? Since when? 

Dude, I salute you for being a passionate fan, I really do. But I've been on this board for quite some time & the above doesn't even come close to describing the folks on here. You have a vision of how this thing should be run. The organization & most of the people on here have a different one.

Dat's life.

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 minute ago, Underachiever said:

If having one of the best records in baseball so far this year is mediocrity, your definition of mediocrity is skewed. If winning 93 games last year was mediocrity, only 4 teams of 30 were above mediocre. 

 

That's been the trend in recent years among some fans, regardless of the sport. There's the team that wins it all, the runner-up, and maybe two or three others. Everyone else is 'mediocre', or 'sucks'.

[StearnsFTW]

On 7/26/2025 at 9:26 AM, bigred said:

If they settle for 2 fringy players, then that's definitely not even remotely "going for it". Most fans here are hindsight cherry pickers. Like I said, most people here, including myself, went off about that trade, saying it was a massive overpay. I understand that as a small market team, we need to have a deep system. Well, it's so deep now, that we could easily afford to trade a few to try and try to get better now, and actually go for it. I've never once said they should completely drain the farm system. What's the point of hoarding prospects? So we can watch many of them flame out and/or have the talent diminish because of injuries? We have 1 of the best records inMLB, and we swept the Dodgers. NOW IS THE TIME!! 

"Hindsight cherry pickers" is a close relative of "WOAH SOLVDD".

[BrewerFan]

9 hours ago, bigred said:

Big beautiful forest? Yeah, uh-huh. So you admit that you choose to fool yourself? By thinking it's something that it's not? Ok, that's your choice. I choose to not settle for mediocrity. Nobody cares/remembers who finishes second, just like nobody cares/remembers who had the best regular season records. It's about winning championships, period. You seriously don't think every Brewer player doesn't care if they win a championship? If they don’t, then they should be traded/waived immediately. 

All you're choosing to do is complain on a message board that you're the only one who wants to win by demanding... someting. You won't quite say what or what we're supposed to give up, just... something. You've been asked, would you trade Made, Pena, Pratt, Quero, Henderson...for a rental. Is that smart. I've not seen an answer. You're not making any "choice" that involves the Brewers beyond that. 

 

My "choice" is to hope the Brewers DON'T trade players who could be stars for the Brewers for 7 years. 

 

This reminds me very much of the conversation from just last year where the argument was made that we'd be better off spending 10M more on payroll vs putting that money toward the IFA and DR Facilities. Just short sighted. But again, it's actually hard to say as you haven't actually said anything other than just repeating how we beat the Dodgers(over and over) and that means we need to make a big trade... but not sure for who. 

 

I haven't seen anyone here who's against a trade. I've seen people here who are against treating this as some unique season where you have to give up a top 10-25 prospect in MLB because... this is such a rare year and we beat the Dodgers. 

[bigred]

2 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

All you're choosing to do is complain on a message board that you're the only one who wants to win by demanding... someting. You won't quite say what or what we're supposed to give up, just... something. You've been asked, would you trade Made, Pena, Pratt, Quero, Henderson...for a rental. Is that smart. I've not seen an answer. You're not making any "choice" that involves the Brewers beyond that. 

 

My "choice" is to hope the Brewers DON'T trade players who could be stars for the Brewers for 7 years. 

 

This reminds me very much of the conversation from just last year where the argument was made that we'd be better off spending 10M more on payroll vs putting that money toward the IFA and DR Facilities. Just short sighted. But again, it's actually hard to say as you haven't actually said anything other than just repeating how we beat the Dodgers(over and over) and that means we need to make a big trade... but not sure for who. 

 

I haven't seen anyone here who's against a trade. I've seen people here who are against treating this as some unique season where you have to give up a top 10-25 prospect in MLB because... this is such a rare year and we beat the Dodgers. 

I'm not the only one. If you went back and looked, a few others have said that now, since it's not 2008 anymore, and after several early exits from the playoffs, it's definitely ok for our fanbase to expect more from our front office and GM. To actually go for it. 

I've noticed that not 1 person will answer my question. If having 1 of the best records in MLB, and sweeping the Dodgers season series isn't enough motivation to make a couple trades to actually go for a deep playoff run/WS title, then what will be enough? The only true answer, is nothing will ever be enough, then. 

[BrewerFan]

18 minutes ago, bigred said:

I'm not the only one. If you went back and looked, a few others have said that now, since it's not 2008 anymore, and after several early exits from the playoffs, it's definitely ok for our fanbase to expect more from our front office and GM. To actually go for it. 

YOU-ARE-THE-ONE-I-AM-TALKING-TO.

19 minutes ago, bigred said:

I've noticed that not 1 person will answer my question. If having 1 of the best records in MLB, and sweeping the Dodgers season series isn't enough motivation to make a couple trades to actually go for a deep playoff run/WS title, then what will be enough? The only true answer, is nothing will ever be enough, then. 

You're just talking right past everyone and you refuse to actually engage, don't you?

So since this is a strawman and you've declared that NOBODY but you(and a few other people) want to "make a few trades," I'll answer this question. 

 

Never. I don't EVER want to trade a guy who's on the same level as a prospect as Chourio but at SS and trade him for a 2 month rental. Since you can't answer that VERY simple question and refuse to say anything but parrot "make a trade...make a trade," I'll go to the other same braindead extreme. 

 

Seriously though... get over the Dodgers sweep. We were on a hot streak, they'd lost 10 of 12. That's not the point you're making it out to be. That's NEVER a reason to trade guys like Made, Pena, Pratt for 2 months of a guy.

 

And I'm going to assume it would take players like that as you don't consider Priester a big trade and somehow think it matters that it's viewed most positively in hindsight than it was at the time! LOL...so what? That's literally the ONLY thing that matters. How it ends up working out. 

[bigred]

7 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

YOU-ARE-THE-ONE-I-AM-TALKING-TO.

You're just talking right past everyone and you refuse to actually engage, don't you?

So since this is a strawman and you've declared that NOBODY but you(and a few other people) want to "make a few trades," I'll answer this question. 

 

Never. I don't EVER want to trade a guy who's on the same level as a prospect as Chourio but at SS and trade him for a 2 month rental. Since you can't answer that VERY simple question and refuse to say anything but parrot "make a trade...make a trade," I'll go to the other same braindead extreme. 

 

Seriously though... get over the Dodgers sweep. We were on a hot streak, they'd lost 10 of 12. That's not the point you're making it out to be. That's NEVER a reason to trade guys like Made, Pena, Pratt for 2 months of a guy.

 

And I'm going to assume it would take players like that as you don't consider Priester a big trade and somehow think it matters that it's viewed most positively in hindsight than it was at the time! LOL...so what? That's literally the ONLY thing that matters. How it ends up working out. 

Doesn’t matter that you were talking to me. You said I was the only one saying that, it that's simply not true. 

[bigred]

9 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

YOU-ARE-THE-ONE-I-AM-TALKING-TO.

You're just talking right past everyone and you refuse to actually engage, don't you?

So since this is a strawman and you've declared that NOBODY but you(and a few other people) want to "make a few trades," I'll answer this question. 

 

Never. I don't EVER want to trade a guy who's on the same level as a prospect as Chourio but at SS and trade him for a 2 month rental. Since you can't answer that VERY simple question and refuse to say anything but parrot "make a trade...make a trade," I'll go to the other same braindead extreme. 

 

Seriously though... get over the Dodgers sweep. We were on a hot streak, they'd lost 10 of 12. That's not the point you're making it out to be. That's NEVER a reason to trade guys like Made, Pena, Pratt for 2 months of a guy.

 

And I'm going to assume it would take players like that as you don't consider Priester a big trade and somehow think it matters that it's viewed most positively in hindsight than it was at the time! LOL...so what? That's literally the ONLY thing that matters. How it ends up working out. 

Yeah, uh-huh. Very few teams have swept the Dodgers in a season series over the last 20 years, but we should just forget about that. It's a big nothing burger. I'll tell ya, you and your click of people on here who think their opinions are the ONLY way to think, should be put on some timeouts. Bunch of nar*******ts. 

[bigred]

7 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

YOU-ARE-THE-ONE-I-AM-TALKING-TO.

You're just talking right past everyone and you refuse to actually engage, don't you?

So since this is a strawman and you've declared that NOBODY but you(and a few other people) want to "make a few trades," I'll answer this question. 

 

Never. I don't EVER want to trade a guy who's on the same level as a prospect as Chourio but at SS and trade him for a 2 month rental. Since you can't answer that VERY simple question and refuse to say anything but parrot "make a trade...make a trade," I'll go to the other same braindead extreme. 

 

Seriously though... get over the Dodgers sweep. We were on a hot streak, they'd lost 10 of 12. That's not the point you're making it out to be. That's NEVER a reason to trade guys like Made, Pena, Pratt for 2 months of a guy.

 

And I'm going to assume it would take players like that as you don't consider Priester a big trade and somehow think it matters that it's viewed most positively in hindsight than it was at the time! LOL...so what? That's literally the ONLY thing that matters. How it ends up working out. 

So, it's safe to say you couldn't care less if the Brewers ever win a title, correct? Being good in the regular season is enough for you and the click, right? And hoarding prospects, just for the sake of hoarding them, is fine with you? Ok, you're entitled to your opinions, as am I. We've been a very good small market team for quite a while now, so at this point, is ok to expect more, or to at least try. I know I'm not the only one here to feel this way, either. 

[BrewerFan]

1 hour ago, bigred said:

So, it's safe to say you couldn't care less if the Brewers ever win a title, correct? Being good in the regular season is enough for you and the click, right? And hoarding prospects, just for the sake of hoarding them, is fine with you? Ok, you're entitled to your opinions, as am I. We've been a very good small market team for quite a while now, so at this point, is ok to expect more, or to at least try. I know I'm not the only one here to feel this way, either. 

And YET AGAIN you were unable to answer who you'd be willing to give up. 

And you made a  bunch of REALLY asinine statements because I said I wasn't willing to give up a Chourio caliber prospect... but this one is a switch hitting SS or the guy that some people think is even better, the SS/2B/3B with 70 speed.

What team in Baseball do you suppose IS trading those types of prospects for rentals?

 

You have a remarkable ability to either pretend to be really obtuse or... you're not pretending. That'd be sadder. 

 

Quote

Yeah, uh-huh. Very few teams have swept the Dodgers in a season series over the oast 20 years, but we should just forget about that. It's a big nothing burger. I'll tell ya, you and your click of people on here who think their opinions are the ONLY way to think, should be pit on some timeouts. Bunch of nar*******ts. 

Did you really need THREE posts to respond to one post of mine...and in doing so, not answer ONE single question?

This logic that we should trade anyone and do whatever it takes for 2 months because we beat the Dodgers doesnt' mean sweeping the Dodgers... in TWO 3 game series is "a big nothing burger." It mean that's not a good enough reason to trade Pratt, Pena, Made, Quero.

 

You'd have traded Chourio a couple seasons ago, you'd have traded Misiorowski last year. 

It's your exact mentality that'd prevent the Brewers from every being a competitive team. 

 

Quote

Doesn’t matter that you were talking to me. You said I was the only one saying that, it that's simply not true. 

Ok, and here's your third example of NOT being able to answer some simple questions, but who is arguing "that." 

 

What is the "that?" We should give up whoever it takes to get 2 months of a rental? 

Since I've asked and you responded by defending the position, that is clearly your position. Made, Pena, Pratt, whoever it takes...to get 2 months of a rental. And then watch them for 7 years of 10 years as in the case of Chourio and watch as they thrive elsewhere and the Brewers are irrelevant because you don't seem to grasp how small market teams have to try and win.

By the way, I seem to recall you claiming the large market teams don't "need to make trades because they have the money to pay Free Agents." Why are the Cubs, Yankees, Phillies all trying to trade for Suarez?

 

It's a bit difficult to take any of this seriously when you had to reply to one post... three times and not actually respond to the questions posed. 

And I get it, you don't have answers, you just want to complain and "do something," because you "won't settle" for mediocrity... which is always an amusing statement among fans. Nobody cares what YOU will "settle" for.

[liveforoctober]

1 hour ago, bigred said:

So, it's safe to say you couldn't care less if the Brewers ever win a title, correct? Being good in the regular season is enough for you and the click, right? And hoarding prospects, just for the sake of hoarding them, is fine with you? Ok, you're entitled to your opinions, as am I. We've been a very good small market team for quite a while now, so at this point, is ok to expect more, or to at least try. I know I'm not the only one here to feel this way, either. 

I'm going to enjoy my summer man even if it's 95 degrees with a heat index over a million today. Even if it pours rain for a few days or if we get weeks of cloud cover. It's going to be a great summer. Because I like summer. That doesn't mean I wouldn't love for it to be 80 degrees and sunny with a slight breeze everyday.

You know what else I'm not going to do? I'm not going to walk around shouting into a megaphone how it isn't 80 and sunny everyday, trying to ruin everyone else's enjoyment of the season to somehow prove I know what the best summer actually is?