When does Arnold start to receive some criticism

[OldSchoolSnapper]

His son is on the U13 Whitefish Bay team that will be on ESPN this weekend. I am sure that team is getting some analytics done and facility access that doesn't seem fair. 

That's all I got ;)

On a serious note, I think the consensus will be this season was disappointing if we lose our first playoff series again. I think that's more than fair. This is looking like it could be the best pitching staff we've ever had. Sure, the offense lacks some firepower here and there, and the World Series is just such an incredibly difficult thing to do, that I would never make that the bar regardless of how good the team is, baseball is just a brutal game of chance sometimes. 

It's completely fair to be disappointed and point out there isn't enough talent offensively IF that happens again. Thing with MLB though, is that I don't know what else there is to do. The disparity of resources makes it very clear to me that your best bet is exactly what they're doing. Make it every year and hope you get lucky eventually. 

The criticism of what GB has done in the postseason is much more fair than this. I don't see it as settling. I think with MLB, it's just being realistic.

[Fear The Chorizo]

12 hours ago, adambr2 said:

 

First of all, I do agree that it's time to raise the bar — it's ok to start expecting playoff success now. I think we can all agree that we've been playing enough postseason baseball to start feeling disappointed with these early exits. It's not 2008 anymore. It's ok to talk about a World Series. 

 

I'll add to that by saying, I know it's not comfortable or popular to just blame it on "bad luck", and I'm not attributing it entirely to that ....but it's a big part of it. 

 

If we walk Bellinger and Grandal in extras in 2018...maybe we win the game and the NLCS. If Grisham doesn't flub the ball in '19, maybe we go on to win it all. If Devin doesn't blow Game 3 last year ....maybe everything turns out differently. We'll never know. Then you have a similar small market, with less consistent postseason appearances like the Royals, get to the playoffs just two years in 2014 and '15, and they make the World Series in the first one and then win it the following year. Sucks to say "it's baseball", but I don't know how else to explain that. I don't think the Royals made all these crazy moves in 2014 and 2015 that resulted in this. But it's what happened. 

 

None of this is saying we can't, and shouldn't, go get a bat or other weapon to improve our chances. That's fair. But it won't guarantee anything in this game. We can't have a better team on paper than the Dodgers. Doesn't mean we can't beat them, but we can't outspend and outinvest them. Unfortunately, the design of the game isn't fair. 

 

One thing to keep in mind though — the real difference makers, the Ronald Acunas, the Gunnar Hendersons — they're not really available. Not for what any team would realistically spend, not without risking actually making the rest of the roster worse. 

 

There's still assets out there that could help. But everything has to be considered. How does this guy fit into our system? How does he fit into the clubhouse? Will he be a seamless fit, or are we getting a Jesse Winker? If it's a position player, will he be a good defensive fit who will coordinate and communicate well with the others? (especially important when acquiring an infielder). Is the guy we are trading away crucial to the morale and general atmosphere of the club? I don't mean to suggest numbers aren't important — they are — I want a big bat too, but there are weird, unseen intangibles in baseball that just aren't always clear by the strength of your lineup. If there weren't, we certainly wouldn't have the best record in baseball. 

Liking this - I think in addition to weighing individual metrics on players across the diamond and how they contribute to the overall W/L performance of the team over the course of 162, the Brewers have to assess what moves can be made to strengthen a team weakness in a short series/playoff format.  Power/HR in the lineup is this team's primary weakness - if it means sacrificing a couple regular season wins to add an impact bat or two at the deadline at the expense of defense or positional versatility so the lineup has a better chance of slugging in postseason, the Brewers have to make that move this year.

If the Brewers want to make a splash move at the deadline (i.e., unexpected trade that sends a ton in return for an impact player), I think SS is the position the Brewers should target and go after a guy like Henderson (Orioles) - but there just aren't any SS this deadline that are obviously on the block - so this would seem to be more of an offseason-type trade option the Brewers could look to make by packaging a bunch of their prospect capital.  So that makes the obvious position to upgrade 3B, and Suarez is that guy.

[KCBrewerfan34]

If we end up top 2 and get a bye our playoff series will a coin flip or we will be a small dog. 

[CheezWizHed]

I live in a world where all of these coexist:

1. I love an appreciate the winning culture the Brewers have had for 10+ years (even without winning a WS). I spent many, many years watching Brewer baseball where the best thing we had was listening to Uecker not describe the action on the field. 
2. I appreciate the unorthodox job the Brewers have done (Arnold and others) to assemble this team that is befuddling the league.
3. I'm ready to push in some chips (the expensive ones if necessary) to get a bigger bat to help the offense. Whether that is a Suarez rental or a Yelich-like long term trade (preferred). 

This year has a feeling like 2011 (except reverse our offense/defensive strengths)... just a feeling this team has a good chance to go far. 

[tmwiese55]

6 hours ago, KCBrewerfan34 said:

If we end up top 2 and get a bye our playoff series will a coin flip or we will be a small dog. 

Generally agree on the coinflip. Which is the main point of the bites of the apple and goes against the "we're not trying to win big" type attitudes here. No matter you do, if you can't build a juggernaut like LAD the nature of baseball flukiness makes these series near coinflips.   There really isn't a trade MKE can make that substantially changes their odds from the 5-10% chance they have right now. Then it comes down to luck/flukiness and just getting hot or the right hit at the right time.

That said, I'd assume MKE would be slight faves due to homefield over the likely 2nd round teams NYM, Padres, Giants, Reds, Cards. I could see coinflip or dogs vs Phi/Chc due to Phil just being very good and with good starting pitching, Cubs because it turns into homefield for them (plus gambling skews towards big cities)

[Thurston Fluff]

5 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

I live in a world where all of these coexist:

1. I love an appreciate the winning culture the Brewers have had for 10+ years (even without winning a WS). I spent many, many years watching Brewer baseball where the best thing we had was listening to Uecker not describe the action on the field. 
2. I appreciate the unorthodox job the Brewers have done (Arnold and others) to assemble this team that is befuddling the league.
3. I'm ready to push in some chips (the expensive ones if necessary) to get a bigger bat to help the offense. Whether that is a Suarez rental or a Yelich-like long term trade (preferred). 

This year has a feeling like 2011 (except reverse our offense/defensive strengths)... just a feeling this team has a good chance to go far. 

Some chips yes. That's always how they've done things. All the chips, no. I think one of the things that people sometimes think of the Brewers is they'll always sacrifice the present for the future. That's not the case. Not sacrificing the future for the present isn't the same as sacrificing the present for the future.

[wibadgers23]

5 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

I'm ready to push in some chips (the expensive ones if necessary) to get a bigger bat to help the offense. Whether that is a Suarez rental or a Yelich-like long term trade (preferred). 

I'm here as well.  Making the playoffs has been great the past 7 years but this isn't 2008 anymore where we were ecstatic just to make it in.  It's time to go deeper and make a long run.  Does acquiring a big piece help get us to that point?  I don't know but I'm willing to take my chances and trade some big time prospects if the opportunity comes along.

[Scooterfletcher]

What can you really criticize Arnold for?  Nothing much.

Should have protected Shane Smith is about it.

You could argue his trades could have gotten us more maybe but as of today we have won most if not all of his trades.

As far as a point of judgement on him….if he overpays for a non difference maker and we fail to make and perform well in the nlcs, that will be a big factor to me.

[bigred]

On 7/23/2025 at 8:24 PM, MVP2110 said:

They made a big trade. They traded one of their better prospects and a comp pick for Quinn Priester 

That's big? Yeah, uh-huh, ok. 

[CheezWizHed]

14 hours ago, Thurston Fluff said:

Some chips yes. That's always how they've done things. All the chips, no. I think one of the things that people sometimes think of the Brewers is they'll always sacrifice the present for the future. That's not the case. Not sacrificing the future for the present isn't the same as sacrificing the present for the future.

We have a lot of chips right now.  Not for a rental, but I'd be willing to part with Made or Pena for the right long term bat.

13 hours ago, Scooterfletcher said:

What can you really criticize Arnold for?  Nothing much.

Should have protected Shane Smith is about it.

You could argue his trades could have gotten us more maybe but as of today we have won most if not all of his trades.

As far as a point of judgement on him….if he overpays for a non difference maker and we fail to make and perform well in the nlcs, that will be a big factor to me.

Even the Shane Smith take is waning.  Still head scratching on why he wasn't protected, but it is looking more like he picked the right SPs. Even if you think losing Smith caused us to pick up Priester, it looks like a positive move. 

[bigred]

23 hours ago, liveforoctober said:

Did you want Attanasio to go out and pitch to Alonso last year to prove he wanted to win it all? Maybe he should have gotten the best closer in baseball at the time to do it... Dang, bad fan base and owner. Not wanting it. All of 'em head in the clouds and delusional. 

If he could only assemble a roster to have the best record in baseball this year... Maybe that will prove he wants to win it all. Ehh, probably not. Delusional. 

Some of them just don't get it like us, BigRed. We are the ones that want it the most. We know.

 

Best record in baseball, just to probably get bounced in their first playoff series, again, just because MA refuses to pry open the wallet a bit, and Arnold refuses to use our deep farm system to make some meaningful moves. What's the point of having a deep system, if they won't use it? Not all of our prospects will make it to Milwaukee. In fact, most won't. 

[cragi]

13 minutes ago, bigred said:

Best record in baseball, just to probably get bounced in their first playoff series, again, just because MA refuses to pry open the wallet a bit, and Arnold refuses to use our deep farm system to make some meaningful moves. What's the point of having a deep system, if they won't use it? Not all of our prospects will make it to Milwaukee. In fact, most won't. 

In past years, organizational depth was mediocre and the team was marginally in line for playoffs but not a recognized contender vs some of the great teams around the league. Why sacrifice the future to have a slightly better underdog odds for one kick at the can?

They have built up their trading chips and now are in the hunt as a WS contender. So they could very well cash some in and go for it as we've seen from MA over the years, or they could continue to stockpile if they think they will be in an even better position down the road. Having the best record this late, it seems this year feels different and they could go for it, but the price would need to be right.

[liveforoctober]

1 hour ago, bigred said:

Best record in baseball, just to probably get bounced in their first playoff series, again, just because MA refuses to pry open the wallet a bit, and Arnold refuses to use our deep farm system to make some meaningful moves. What's the point of having a deep system, if they woe in't ust? Not all of our prospects will make it to Milwaukee. In fact, most won't. 

You just answered your own question. 

Real quick recent example when we had Wiemer, Frelick, and Mitchell all together. Easy when they are all mashing in the minors to say "trade away for help" ... but not many would have picked Frelick as the survivor of that trio. Had we traded away the depth early I'm guessing we would have traded Sal and Joey... Mitchell would have stayed? Had we traded Sal and Joey for early rentals that move would have hurt us long term. Instead we let the situation play out, Sal becomes a half decade starter - we get a playoff push piece last year for Wiemer and Mitchell is a TBD. The non sexy but prudent move is often keeping the depth and letting the players decide who is going to make it ... because if you start deciding yourself who will make it and who won't and you are wrong ... you turn into the Rockies.

It is really easy to sit here right now and say "just trade from depth and get the guy who will help you win the world series" ... but you are gambling on about 6 levels that you can actually do that.

Would love to hear who you think we should trade and for whom though.

[SeaBass]

I didn't really think this season would be the one where they'd be this good. I didn't expect them to fall off like most pundits just because they lost Adames and Williams. This team was just too good last season for those two guys to precipitate a huge decline. But my excitement has been for the near future and that still holds true. This season is kind of gravy. That doesn't mean I'm dismissing the opportunity they have either, they can't just ignore the position they've put themselves in.

But even if they don't make a major trade addition I think they have as good a chance as if they do. Making a trade doesn't guarantee anything, it ends up getting judged by small sample size and small samples have just as much chance of going bad (Jonathan Schoop) as they do good (CC Sabathia).

I think of a guy like Eduardo Escobar back in 2021. He did fine, good even. The Brewers also didn't lose anything significant in the trade. Clear positive addition. But did he really make that much of a difference? The Brewers were 60-42 (.588) when they made the trade and went 35-25 (.583) the rest of the way. They stayed about the same. That's not a bad thing, maybe if they don't make the trade they do worse, who can say.

I just think that part of the trade deadline is a little overrated. Just a little. Making moves to improve isn't wrong, it never is. I just don't know that it leads to huge shifts in the end results.

[Brian]

But we got Murph the backup plan. The guy who stepped in when Craig Counsell jumped ship in the dead of night like a man sneaking out on his wife. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

2 hours ago, bigred said:

That's big? Yeah, uh-huh, ok. 

Priester is 9-2 with a 3.28 ERA. That deal has paid huge dividends so far.

[tmwiese55]

Overpaying for a big name is good.   Finding a steal that produces big is bad, apparently. 

[MVP2110]

3 hours ago, bigred said:

That's big? Yeah, uh-huh, ok. 

I mean they gave up one of their better prospects, a comp pick, and another prospect. It's the most aggressive trade they've made in years. And they acquired a guy whose been awesome for them this year. So yes I would say that qualifies as a big trade. There is a good chance the Brewers will acquire more WAR this season in the Priester trade than any team will acquire in any other in season trade made this year. 

[HarveysWBs]

1 minute ago, MVP2110 said:

I mean they gave up one of their better prospects, a comp pick, and another prospect. It's the most aggressive trade they've made in years. And they acquired a guy whose been awesome for them this year. So yes I would say that qualifies as a big trade. There is a good chance the Brewers will acquire more WAR this season in the Priester trade than any team will acquire in any other in season trade made this year. 

Brewers Win The Trade Deadline: CONFIRMED

[gregmag]

8 hours ago, bigred said:

That's big? Yeah, uh-huh, ok. 

If someone had proposed trading three prospects for a starter who would go 9-2 / 3.28, stabilize the rotation, and be a key part of turning a lost season into the best record in baseball, you would have blustered about how that’s the kind of win-now deal the Brewers don’t have the guts to make. But when the Brewers actually make that deal — and another poster points it out, giving you a chance to act superior (with, as always, nothing to back the act up) — you write it off.

[bigred]

21 hours ago, liveforoctober said:

You just answered your own question. 

Real quick recent example when we had Wiemer, Frelick, and Mitchell all together. Easy when they are all mashing in the minors to say "trade away for help" ... but not many would have picked Frelick as the survivor of that trio. Had we traded away the depth early I'm guessing we would have traded Sal and Joey... Mitchell would have stayed? Had we traded Sal and Joey for early rentals that move would have hurt us long term. Instead we let the situation play out, Sal becomes a half decade starter - we get a playoff push piece last year for Wiemer and Mitchell is a TBD. The non sexy but prudent move is often keeping the depth and letting the players decide who is going to make it ... because if you start deciding yourself who will make it and who won't and you are wrong ... you turn into the Rockies.

It is really easy to sit here right now and say "just trade from depth and get the guy who will help you win the world series" ... but you are gambling on about 6 levels that you can actually do that.

Would love to hear who you think we should trade and for whom though.

I answered my own question? The point, is most won't make it to Milwaukee 2 main reasons. Either they fizzle out and drastically lose trade value, or because of injury. So since many/most won't make it to Milwaukee, why not use some of them in trades to try and get better now? If you ask me, after sweeping the Dodgers this year, this is DEFINITELY the year to make 1-2 bigger trades and go for it. 

[bigred]

20 hours ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

Priester is 9-2 with a 3.28 ERA. That deal has paid huge dividends so far.

Hindsight is 20/20. We definitely need at least 1 big power bat, and possibly a SS, because for obvious reasons, I wouldn't count on Ortiz offensively at all. But if our fan base would rather watch the Cubs make some moves to try and get better before the playoffs, then so be it. We know they will, and Milwaukee will probably stand pat, or trade for a middling receiver and bench bat, and call"er a day. While telling us "they went for it!". Lol SMDH 

 

[bigred]

19 hours ago, MVP2110 said:

I mean they gave up one of their better prospects, a comp pick, and another prospect. It's the most aggressive trade they've made in years. And they acquired a guy whose been awesome for them this year. So yes I would say that qualifies as a big trade. There is a good chance the Brewers will acquire more WAR this season in the Priester trade than any team will acquire in any other in season trade made this year. 

And most people on this sight called it a MASSIVE overpay. Including me. Lol. Like I said, hindsight is always 20/20. 

[bigred]

15 hours ago, gregmag said:

If someone had proposed trading three prospects for a starter who would go 9-2 / 3.28, stabilize the rotation, and be a key part of turning a lost season into the best record in baseball, you would have blustered about how that’s the kind of win-now deal the Brewers don’t have the guts to make. But when the Brewers actually make that deal — and another poster points it out, giving you a chance to act superior (with, as always, nothing to back the act up) — you write it off.

Most people here, including myself, called that trade a massive overpay. Too many hindsight cherry pickers here. 

[bigred]

22 hours ago, liveforoctober said:

You just answered your own question. 

Real quick recent example when we had Wiemer, Frelick, and Mitchell all together. Easy when they are all mashing in the minors to say "trade away for help" ... but not many would have picked Frelick as the survivor of that trio. Had we traded away the depth early I'm guessing we would have traded Sal and Joey... Mitchell would have stayed? Had we traded Sal and Joey for early rentals that move would have hurt us long term. Instead we let the situation play out, Sal becomes a half decade starter - we get a playoff push piece last year for Wiemer and Mitchell is a TBD. The non sexy but prudent move is often keeping the depth and letting the players decide who is going to make it ... because if you start deciding yourself who will make it and who won't and you are wrong ... you turn into the Rockies.

It is really easy to sit here right now and say "just trade from depth and get the guy who will help you win the world series" ... but you are gambling on about 6 levels that you can actually do that.

Would love to hear who you think we should trade and for whom though.

For 1, I definitely think we should trade for Suarez, if he's made available. Kills 2 birds(need for power & 3rd base) with 1 stone. He's a FA after this season, so I think he could be had for less than what most people think. It would probably still take a bit, but don't think it would take any of our top top prospects. Attanasio is too cheap to allow that though, most likely.