World Series thread

[BrewerFan]

2 hours ago, Brian said:

Brewers being held to a .118 avg. VS the playoff Dodgers says a lot to me.

Our over preformannce in a moderate division sure helped the 2025 Brewers. 

Cardinals a very medeoker team this year,  Pirates 3rd worst team in all baseball,  Reds even had a chance for the playoffs because of the NL Centeral's mediocrity and I do not think the Reds were that good. 

Teams play a balanced schedule now. The division isn't nearly as impactful as it once was and the only team we faced that we had a higher OPS against as compared to our teams season long average was the Pirates(the team with Skenes who we hit a couple times). 

We didn't beat up on a bad division. 

And being held to a .118 AVG tells me... nothing about our season long offense. It tells me in 4 games vs... 4 ace caliber pitchers, we didn't hit. 

I said the exact same thing going into the series. I didn't think the regular season numbers or BA/OPS(which were both solid at .274 and a 736 OPS) was going to mean ANYTHING in the post-season. 

[Brian]

1 hour ago, sveumrules said:

NL Central was hardly mediocre this year. Pirates also had the 5th fewest wins in all baseball, not the 3rd.

I should have said in the National League about the Pirates and the NL Central is weak execpt for the Cubs. 

NL Central below 🤫

[Brian]

11 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

Pirates the team with Skenes

Paul Skenes was 10 wins and 10 losses this season with a 1.97 ERA. just tells me the Pirates can not hit.  Pirates A big El Zilcho! 

[sveumrules]

9 minutes ago, Brian said:

I should have said in the National League about the Pirates and NL Central is weak execpt for the Cubs. 

The Pirates having the third fewest wins in the National League made them the best last place team in the NL. Both the NL West and NL East had a worse last place team for the other four teams in the division to stack wins against.

Reds won the the 2nd most games of any 3rd place team MLB.
Cardinals won the 2nd most games of any 4th place team in MLB.
Pirates won the 3rd most game on any 5th place team in MLB.

If you think the NL Central was weak with the second most wins of any division in baseball I guess that's your prerogative, but the AL West, NL East, NL West, and AL Central were all objectively weaker. 

[BrewerFan]

1 hour ago, adambr2 said:

I don’t know. I don’t know how to compute all that and how it varies in a playoff environment versus an elite team compared to a regular season team versus a mediocre team. I am just pointing out that the total offensive output over the course of the entire season was very similar overall.

We don’t have any elites in the lineup like the Prince Fielder/Ryan Braun days but there’s also no real offensive liabilities besides Ortiz in the regular lineup. So it’s not as top heavy, but deeper.

I will say that the Brewers have some talented hitters who were complete no shows in the playoffs — Yelich, Contreras, Frelick and Turang come to mind.

 

I'd take Contreras out of that group. He came through big in a few spots and was hitting the ball hard. But... the other three were 3 of our top 5 hitters this year. 

Snell just wasn't as sharp last night. It's not like he just dominated the Brewers, he threw 6IP, 1H 0ER and 9K vs the Phills and he gave up 2ERs vs the Reds, and even that game, he had given up 1H through 6 vs the Reds(with 9Ks) and they finally got him for 3hits and 2 ERs. 

We were bad vs Snell... but he was also... about as sharp as I've seen any pitcher in the playoffs. 

[BrewerFan]

5 minutes ago, Brian said:

Paul Skenes was 10 wins and 10 losses this season with a 1.97 ERA. just tells me the Pirates can not hit.  Pirates A big El Zilcho! 

.... yeah, we're talking about RUNS scored and OUR offense. Pointing out that Skenes had a sub 2 ERA and only went 10-10 only speaks to their offense, not ours. 

 

17 minutes ago, Brian said:

I should have said in the National League about the Pirates and NL Central is weak execpt for the Cubs. 

NL Central below 🤫

 

Ok... well... cool as that picture may be, the question... again, was if our offense was really that good. 

Acting like we just feasted on the NL Central is just simply not true. AGAIN, Cincy, STL and the Cubs all held us below our season averages(the ones that had us 3rd in the league in R) and the only one we were BETTER than was the Pirates. 

 

So... the point remains. 

MLB has a balanced schedule now and we were not beating up on teams in our division to score our runs. 

[Brian]

19 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

the question... again, was if our offense was really that good. 

And my answer again is the same, "No" our offense was not really that good and NL Central is a weak division execpt for the Cubs. 

 

Also you said: "Acting like we just feasted on the NL Central is just simply not true." 

And that also is because we are not as good as our record showed, NL Central is weak execpt for the Cubs in 2025. 

[BrewerFan]

15 minutes ago, Brian said:

And my answer again is the same, "No" our offense was not really that good and NL Central is a weak division execpt for the Cubs. 

 

Yeah, your answer seems to be ignoring empirical data and going off your insistence the NL Central's pitching was so bad. 

It wasn't. The Reds, Pirates and Cubs were in the top 12 in the league in ERA(the Brewers 2nd). 

The Reds had 3 pitchers with WAR's or 4.4, 4.9 and 5.8. Top 5 average a WAR of over 4. 

We hit WORSE against the NL Central... so again... doesn't REALLY do much to explain why we finished 3rd in runs scored. 

18 minutes ago, Brian said:

Also you said: "Acting like we just feasted on the NL Central is just simply not true." 

And that also is because we are not as good as our record showed, NL Central is weak execpt for the Cubs in 2025. 

AGAIN, this was about our OFFENSE and so... it seems obvious we'd then be talking about the pitching in the division.
Seems like the NL East would have been at least as bad given the #2 team in that division didn't make the playoffs while the Reds did. 

You've also changed "record" for "offense." But... alright. 

4 of the 5 teams were in the top 12 in ERA. 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/team/_/view/pitching/season/2025/seasontype/2

[Brian]

34 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

Yeah, your answer seems to be ignoring empirical data and going off your insistence the NL Central's pitching was so bad. 

You twisted my words to fit your narrative 100%.  I never said what you typed about NL Central pitching being so bad.  I said 3 of the 5 teams were fairly weak. 

[Brian]

5 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

You've also changed "record" for "offense." But... alright. 

4 of the 5 teams were in the top 12 in ERA. 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/team/_/view/pitching/season/2025/seasontype/2

I changed it because that is the exact word you used.

And the topic we were arguing all along was NL Central weakness execept for the Cubs & Brewers. 

[82brewcrew82]

5 hours ago, Brian said:

I should have said in the National League about the Pirates and the NL Central is weak execpt for the Cubs. 

NL Central below 🤫

You really should be more careful about posting your picture on line.

[Brian]

2 minutes ago, 82brewcrew82 said:

You really should be more careful about posting your picture on line.

LOL, I know, do you have Jose Canseco's phone Number? 

[BruisedCrew]

7 hours ago, adambr2 said:

I don’t know. I don’t know how to compute all that and how it varies in a playoff environment versus an elite team compared to a regular season team versus a mediocre team. I am just pointing out that the total offensive output over the course of the entire season was very similar overall.

We don’t have any elites in the lineup like the Prince Fielder/Ryan Braun days but there’s also no real offensive liabilities besides Ortiz in the regular lineup. So it’s not as top heavy, but deeper.

I will say that the Brewers have some talented hitters who were complete no shows in the playoffs — Yelich, Contreras, Frelick and Turang come to mind.

 

I would also factor in what the Brewers offense was like over the last 6 weeks of the season. . It was much less prodcuctive than during the 57-19 streak in the middle of the season.

Whether that was a reflection of the team wearing down or just regressing to a norm, the postseason struggles were not completely out of the blue. 

[FrntRw]

Although I would have loved to see the Crew in Toronto (or better yet Seattle) I had a huge grin on my face the entire 6th inning for game 1. 

[Brian]

2 hours ago, BruisedCrew said:

Whether that was a reflection of the team wearing down or just regressing to a norm, the postseason struggles were not completely out of the blue. 

I think it was the team wearing down or "hitting the wall."  We were just empty after the last Cubs series.  I honestly do not think we were as bad as we looked against the Dodgers, we had to many multiple game win streaks during the season. 

[Brewluver]

I hope the Jays sweep 'em !!

[trwi7]

That I bet on us.  You? shirt has to be directed at Ohtani, right?

[BrewerFan]

9 hours ago, Brian said:

I changed it because that is the exact word you used.

And the topic we were arguing all along was NL Central weakness execept for the Cubs & Brewers. 

The topic was quite clearly the Brewers offense compared to the Jays offense. And you responded that we looked better because we played the weak NL Central.

I'm not sure when I changed it from offense to "record," but... either way, this is easy enough to break down.

 

1-Again, we performed worse against the NLC teams with the exception of the Pirates. So not a real strong argument. Saying we overperformed because of the division.

2-The pitching in the division was very good. 4 of the top 12 teams and even the "worst" team was the 21st team. 

We also COULD look at record... though.
60-40 vs teams .500 or better.

6-0 vs LAD
4-2 vs Phillies
6-7 vs ChC
2-4 vs SDP
8-5 vs Cincy

2-1 vs Tor
1-2 vs Cleveland
2-1 vs Seattle
0-3 vs NYY
3-0 vs Boston
2-1 vs Det
=35-26 vs playoff teams.

So whichever way you want to go with it, arguing their offense beat up on the NLC(which was my original disagreement) or... by record, it just doesn't carry any weight. They beat the good teams, they hit WORSE vs 3 of the 4 playoff teams and the team they hit the best against... the #3 pitching staff in the NL(behind us and the Padres). 

So they hit worse vs the NLC teams than their season averages outside of the Pirates.

They went 60-40 vs 500+ teams. 

Offensive numbers on the year;
BA-.258 OBP-.332 SLG. 403 OPS-.736

Vs ChC-.238/.315/.392/.707 #9 ERA in the NL -Worse
Vs Cin-.229/.302/.389/.691  #11 ERA in MLB -Worse
Vs STL- .274/.331/.391/.722 #21 ERA             -Worse 
Vs Pit- .296/.375/.458/.833  #7 ERA in the MLB -The ONE team they hit better against(and again, the team with the #3 ERA in the NL/#7 in MLB).

(The Brewers ERA was #2 in MLB)

So... again, but this time with the numbers. The ONE team they performed better than they did vs the rest of the league... was also the 7th best staff in MLB this year and a lot of that was beating up the league's best pitcher Paul Skenes this year who had an ERA of 5.69 vs the Brewers ~1.60 vs the rest of the NL. 

 

So.... I guess you can say it's because they were in the NLC. The facts don't... really bear that out, but... you can still say it! 

[Team Canada]

14 hours ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

We were 3rd in RS in MLB. Does someone believe we had the 3rd best offense?

We're talking about a season in retrospect, so yes, that's pretty much exactly what it means.

[Brewluver]

Disappointing the lack of interest on this WS thread.

I'm sad too. but it's the WS

[NeedMoreFans]

Yamamoto did to Toronto what he did to us.  Unbelievable. 

[brewcrewdue80]

46 minutes ago, NeedMoreFans said:

Yamamoto did to Toronto what he did to us.  Unbelievable. 

Probably just earned the 325 Mil for his contract and still has 10years to go. Ohtani too. Dodgers going to win 8 of next 10 WS. 

[Brian]

12 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

The topic was quite clearly the Brewers offense compared to the Jays offense. And you responded that we looked better because we played the weak NL Central.

I'm not sure when I changed it from offense to "record," but... either way, this is easy enough to break down.

 

1-Again, we performed worse against the NLC teams with the exception of the Pirates. So not a real strong argument. Saying we overperformed because of the division.

2-The pitching in the division was very good. 4 of the top 12 teams and even the "worst" team was the 21st team. 

We also COULD look at record... though.
60-40 vs teams .500 or better.

6-0 vs LAD
4-2 vs Phillies
6-7 vs ChC
2-4 vs SDP
8-5 vs Cincy

2-1 vs Tor
1-2 vs Cleveland
2-1 vs Seattle
0-3 vs NYY
3-0 vs Boston
2-1 vs Det
=35-26 vs playoff teams.

So whichever way you want to go with it, arguing their offense beat up on the NLC(which was my original disagreement) or... by record, it just doesn't carry any weight. They beat the good teams, they hit WORSE vs 3 of the 4 playoff teams and the team they hit the best against... the #3 pitching staff in the NL(behind us and the Padres). 

So they hit worse vs the NLC teams than their season averages outside of the Pirates.

They went 60-40 vs 500+ teams. 

Offensive numbers on the year;
BA-.258 OBP-.332 SLG. 403 OPS-.736

Vs ChC-.238/.315/.392/.707 #9 ERA in the NL -Worse
Vs Cin-.229/.302/.389/.691  #11 ERA in MLB -Worse
Vs STL- .274/.331/.391/.722 #21 ERA             -Worse 
Vs Pit- .296/.375/.458/.833  #7 ERA in the MLB -The ONE team they hit better against(and again, the team with the #3 ERA in the NL/#7 in MLB).

(The Brewers ERA was #2 in MLB)

So... again, but this time with the numbers. The ONE team they performed better than they did vs the rest of the league... was also the 7th best staff in MLB this year and a lot of that was beating up the league's best pitcher Paul Skenes this year who had an ERA of 5.69 vs the Brewers ~1.60 vs the rest of the NL. 

 

So.... I guess you can say it's because they were in the NLC. The facts don't... really bear that out, but... you can still say it! 

Topic was not just Brewers vs the Bluejays. Part of it was the NL Central is the strongest division in baseball, I say its not.  Statistics can be bent anyway you like.  Thats why data manipulation is used all the time in politics and the pharmaceutical industry.  Also why pro sports teams have there own statisical analasis departments. 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

10 hours ago, Team Canada said:

We're talking about a season in retrospect, so yes, that's pretty much exactly what it means.

Except it doesn't when the brand of the sport played in October is almost unrecognizable from April - July. It means you were 3rd in runs in the regular season and nothing more.

Those run totals, over 162 games, are racked up against a billion situations where you're facing a pitcher who will never touch a baseball in a playoff series, batters that will not even be on a roster, spot starters, 15 games against the Pirates, etc. With 12 teams in the postseason it has officially become about getting there with any seed, and if that means you drop a bunch of games in June, so be it. I think the Dodgers have realized that 110 wins doesn't get them anywhere special.

You have to do what you have to do to get through those 162 games, which favors the Brewers as they have mastered the art of winning those margin games. But when it comes to stacking the best lineup possible, I don't think we're on the level of teams like TOR, LAD, PHL, NYY. Doesn't mean we can't ever beat them, but they have better weapons.

 

[Thurston Fluff]

2 hours ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

Except it doesn't when the brand of the sport played in October is almost unrecognizable from April - July. It means you were 3rd in runs in the regular season and nothing more.

Those run totals, over 162 games, are racked up against a billion situations where you're facing a pitcher who will never touch a baseball in a playoff series, batters that will not even be on a roster, spot starters, 15 games against the Pirates, etc. With 12 teams in the postseason it has officially become about getting there with any seed, and if that means you drop a bunch of games in June, so be it. I think the Dodgers have realized that 110 wins doesn't get them anywhere special.

You have to do what you have to do to get through those 162 games, which favors the Brewers as they have mastered the art of winning those margin games. But when it comes to stacking the best lineup possible, I don't think we're on the level of teams like TOR, LAD, PHL, NYY. Doesn't mean we can't ever beat them, but they have better weapons.

 

Given every team faces the exact same billion situations it seems fair to say the ones who did the best in all scenarios is actually the best. It's like testing to see the most athletic. Some people may be able to do more pushups, others can run long distances better, others can sprint faster, and so on. When we take all of those things together the one who did better overall is considered the best athlete.