Brewers (Sproat) vs Rockies (Feltner): 6/5/26, 7:40pm

[LouisEly]

30 minutes ago, Samurai Bucky said:

We were at the game and my son-in-law actually “saw“ it pop. If you do some searching on YouTube, you will see similar videos. He described it like his elbow, went the wrong way.  

You going tonight?  I'll be there, sitting right next to the dugout, 2nd row.

Meeting some other Wisconsinites at Swanky's before the game.

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

Fair enough.  The great thing about a message board is being able to debate/discuss during the downtime between games.

2 years from now, Sproat could be a Burnes level starter (which would be amazing for the Brewers) or he could be out of baseball completely.  I guess time will tell.

i think it’s fair to both be excited by his potential (for some) but be frustrated with his (thus far) poor performance.

 

[liveforoctober]

1 hour ago, TwinsBrewersWorldSeries said:

for those who think Sproat is our next star, what exactly do you seen in his performance that makes you think that? Do you have any data that shows that someone can get rocked for their first 10 starts and then becomes solid?

Guys with a good tool bag will always be given a longer leash. Sproat's issues thus far have seemed to be control and sequencing far more than having hittable pitches. As others have mentioned I wish he could have two months in AAA or shorter exposure opportunities out of the pen but we are in a bit of a bind so he is getting a crash course at the highest level. As long as he is mentally strong he should be fine long term, it's getting through the short term for both he and us that is the roller coaster.

 

[adambr2]

38 minutes ago, cragi said:

Burnes put up a -2.2 WAR at about the same age Sproat is now, putting up a -.6 at about the 1/3 point of his first year in this org. He also doenst have the advantage of workign with the staff year after year but is being pressed to learn on the job and the team needs to use him because of the injuries.  

Given that, I think its reasonable to trust our eyes with the pitch movement and velocity, combined with his age. Patrick has been given the flexibility to work his issues out in the pen more carefully, but he has 2 years in age and several in the org on Sproat.

So, whether or not Sproat has a meaningful turnaround yet this year, im going to trust my eyes and that the staff has a reason to like him.

Nothing would make me happier than revisiting this in a year and having to say “wow, was I ever wrong about Sproat.”

[Samurai Bucky]

31 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

You going tonight?  I'll be there, sitting right next to the dugout, 2nd row.

Meeting some other Wisconsinites at Swanky's before the game.

I think we are skipping tonight but will be there tomorrow.  Gotta get the bobble!

we were in row 21 last night behind the Brewers dugout.  May need to make Swanky’s run…

[Underachiever]

3 hours ago, TwinsBrewersWorldSeries said:

 

for those who think Sproat is our next star, what exactly do you seen in his performance that makes you think that? Do you have any data that shows that someone can get rocked for their first 10 starts and then becomes solid?

 

Smoltz had a 5.43 ERA and a WHIP of 1.7 in his first 12 starts. And I’m not sure people are calling Sproat the next star, but you can see he’s got talent. Whether he becomes Manny Parra, John Smoltz, or something in between, will remain to be seen. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, liveforoctober said:

Guys with a good tool bag will always be given a longer leash. Sproat's issues thus far have seemed to be control and sequencing far more than having hittable pitches. As others have mentioned I wish he could have two months in AAA or shorter exposure opportunities out of the pen but we are in a bit of a bind so he is getting a crash course at the highest level. As long as he is mentally strong he should be fine long term, it's getting through the short term for both he and us that is the roller coaster.

 

That's what surprised me yesterday. Not that he struggled; we've all seen that. But he was hit pretty hard. One thing that should NEVER happen to him is the 0-2 RBI base hit he allowed to a guy like Julien.

Clearly with a bit more good fortune health-wise on the pitching staff he's starting in Nashville. There's much worse things for a young pitcher than to be learning on-the-job with Hook & Henderson nearby, but if we can get a replication of what Gasser did this week & someone else follows suit maybe a refresh in AAA would help him. And of course fingers crossed re Woodruff.

[HarryDoyle]

2 hours ago, StearnsFTW said:

No one is forced to read it, but it's hilarious.

 

Relentless mopery.

 

I don't know about that. I find it hard to believe anyone here has exposed themselves to a blind person.

[wiguy94]

2 hours ago, cragi said:

Burnes put up a -2.2 WAR at about the same age Sproat is now, putting up a -.6 at about the 1/3 point of his first year in this org. He also doenst have the advantage of workign with the staff year after year but is being pressed to learn on the job and the team needs to use him because of the injuries.  

Given that, I think its reasonable to trust our eyes with the pitch movement and velocity, combined with his age. Patrick has been given the flexibility to work his issues out in the pen more carefully, but he has 2 years in age and several in the org on Sproat.

So, whether or not Sproat has a meaningful turnaround yet this year, im going to trust my eyes and that the staff has a reason to like him.

I’ve seen people try to make this comp but I honestly don’t think it’s a good comp at all. 2019 Burnes had a huge HR problem but outside of the HR issues there was a lot to like with his very strong K-BB numbers. His xFIP was like 3.37 that year. If he could eliminate his HR issue he was going to take off. He ditched the FB for a cutter and it happened. Sproat doesn’t have any obvious changes in that regard and his stuff isn’t that good. He throws hard but his ability to spin the ball with velo is well below average which leads to mediocre shapes on his fastballs. He also has serious command issues. I think people really overrate how good his stuff actually is. The curveball and sweeper are great but the fastballs are all average at best from a stuff perspective. 

[LouisEly]

1 hour ago, Samurai Bucky said:

I think we are skipping tonight but will be there tomorrow.  Gotta get the bobble!

we were in row 21 last night behind the Brewers dugout.  May need to make Swanky’s run…

Make sure you're in the shade tomorrow.  Gonna be balls hot.

[jay87shot]

Sproat struggled in AAA last year and was a dude the second half. Maybe he is just a guy who needs a 4 month spring training.

[wiguy94]

Just continuing my previous post but when I talked about Sproat not having great spin capacity on his hard stuff this is what I mean. Of 82 pitchers with 100 cutters thrown this year, Sproat's average spin rate is 79th and about 500rpm lower than the lowest spin rate year Burnes ever had on his cutter. Of 305 pitchers with 100 four seamers thrown this year, Sproat's average spin rate is 298th. Of 177 pitchers with 100 sinkers thrown this year, Sproat's average spin rate is 169th.

[BruisedCrew]

3 hours ago, StearnsFTW said:

No one is forced to read it, but it's hilarious

 

It is pretty funny to see that some people don’t seem to think that the team will be affected at all by having something like 6 or 7 of the 13 pitchers that were expected to be on the opening day roster on the IL.

[adambr2]

21 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

I’ve seen people try to make this comp but I honestly don’t think it’s a good comp at all. 2019 Burnes had a huge HR problem but outside of the HR issues there was a lot to like with his very strong K-BB numbers. His xFIP was like 3.37 that year. If he could eliminate his HR issue he was going to take off. He ditched the FB for a cutter and it happened. Sproat doesn’t have any obvious changes in that regard and his stuff isn’t that good. He throws hard but his ability to spin the ball with velo is well below average which leads to mediocre shapes on his fastballs. He also has serious command issues. I think people really overrate how good his stuff actually is. The curveball and sweeper are great but the fastballs are all average at best from a stuff perspective. 

Well said. I’m genuinely curious for those who are high on Sproat if they genuinely like what they’ve seen, or if it’s just a regurgitation of what else has been said.

Sproat’s fastball isn’t particularly impressive at least from what I’ve seen. The velocity is there but it’s a flat pitch that plays less than the actual velocity and lacks movement. When he doesn’t command it, which is often, it gets hit hard.

The secondary stuff is a deep pitch mix, and some of it is okay, particularly the sweeper but there’s nothing in his arsenal that stands out well enough that makes me believe he’s going to be special.

He does okay in spurts when everything is working just right and then we’re right back to the command problems.

I understand that the Brewers would know better than me and there’s always a chance with what they do they can turn this guy around. But they are not infallible and I guess for me, I just don’t see anything more than hopefully a guy who can be a future regular at the back end of a rotation.

[Jim French Stepstool]

7 hours ago, valpocrewsader said:

Google was no help trying to understand this one.

When the sked was made out for this season the A's included six games in LV as sort of a 'preview' for when they move there. After the Brewers leave the Rockies come in for three.

And I was wrong about it being the first MLB games in the city. Apparently the A's played there in 1996 when renovations were going on at the Coliseum.

[wiguy94]

2 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

Well said. I’m genuinely curious for those who are high on Sproat if they genuinely like what they’ve seen, or if it’s just a regurgitation of what else has been said.

Sproat’s fastball isn’t particularly impressive at least from what I’ve seen. The velocity is there but it’s a flat pitch that plays less than the actual velocity and lacks movement. When he doesn’t command it, which is often, it gets hit hard.

The secondary stuff is a deep pitch mix, and some of it is okay, particularly the sweeper but there’s nothing in his arsenal that stands out well enough that makes me believe he’s going to be special.

He does okay in spurts when everything is working just right and then we’re right back to the command problems.

I understand that the Brewers would know better than me and there’s always a chance with what they do they can turn this guy around. But they are not infallible and I guess for me, I just don’t see anything more than hopefully a guy who can be a future regular at the back end of a rotation.

Yeah I feel you. I don't have a crystal ball or anything but if I had to guess I think he ends up as like a 6th/7th inning reliever where he can sit 98/99 in short spurts and overcome the shape issues on his pitches with raw velo. Maybe I'll be wrong. I hope I'm wrong but I just don't think there's a simplistic fix for him. He just needs to be better and I'm not sure how realistic it is for the fastball shapes to improve or the command to improve.

[cragi]

Just now, wiguy94 said:

Yeah I feel you. I don't have a crystal ball or anything but if I had to guess I think he ends up as like a 6th/7th inning reliever where he can sit 98/99 in short spurts and overcome the shape issues on his pitches with raw velo. Maybe I'll be wrong. I hope I'm wrong but I just don't think there's a simplistic fix for him. He just needs to be better and I'm not sure how realistic it is for the fastball shapes to improve or the command to improve.

first im not comparing him to Burnes. someone threw it out as a strawman so im going off that. 

What ive seen in Sproat seems to me about growing pains for a young pitcher. I thought his fastball was running hotter and his movement was stronger in other starts than last night. Previously, it seemed he had a lot of movement but struggled with control. 

Last night it seemed to me he was trying to be a control pitcher and hit those corners, but then a little bit of movement: he couldn't hit those spots. I get the feeling his fastballs slowed down and his movement softened to better accommodate hitting his spots. That's where I felt the struggle came from as he may have been aiming instead of just going after guys.  I think if he can become effectively wild in the zone like Ashby, thats the upshot.

He got an earful from Hook and came back out and pitched to contact. Not the greatest but still working things out.
 

[sveumrules]

4 minutes ago, BruisedCrew said:

It is pretty funny to see that some people don’t seem to think that the team will be affected at all by having something like 6 or 7 of the 13 pitchers that were expected to be on the opening day roster on the IL.

Despite all the injuries, underperformers, and inconsistencies they are playing at a 101 Win pace at the moment. I don't think they are True Talent Level 101 Win team so of course I'd expect them to play at a lower W% from here on out.

A team getting a .667 W% out of their #3 through #8 starters like the Brewers are is impossible to maintain, but it sure is fun to celebrate while it's happening.

The good news is the Brewers know very well they will need more than the 13 pitchers on the OD roster to get through a season, which is why they normally stack their 40 Man with better depth options than most organizations, or keep a guy like Woodford around longer than fans would like to soak up those mostly meaningless innings. They typically add at least one arm every deadline as well.

Some of those 6 or 7 pitchers on the IL will come back at some point down the road, others will inevitably go onto the IL in the meantime.

The Brewers allowed the fewest R/G in 2023, the 4th fewest in 2024, the 3rd fewest in 2024, the 3rd fewest so far this year, and the fewest in total from 2023 thru present.

Regression is incoming no doubt, but given their history with run prevention (they allowed the 7th fewest runs in MLB from 2017-22 also) I'd imagine they should be able to keep things within the top half dozen or so teams at limiting runs by the end of 162 games.

[cragi]

one nuanced thing is there have been so few meaningless innings for the brewers' pitchers this year. Its hard to go to a Woodford much less a DL Hall or Anderson, when youre still in every game until the final out. 

[BruisedCrew]

18 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

Despite all the injuries, underperformers, and inconsistencies they are playing at a 101 Win pace at the moment. I don't think they are True Talent Level 101 Win team so of course I'd expect them to play at a lower W% from here on out.

A team getting a .667 W% out of their #3 through #8 starters like the Brewers are is impossible to maintain, but it sure is fun to celebrate while it's happening.

The good news is the Brewers know very well they will need more than the 13 pitchers on the OD roster to get through a season, which is why they normally stack their 40 Man with better depth options than most organizations, or keep a guy like Woodford around longer than fans would like to soak up those mostly meaningless innings. They typically add at least one arm every deadline as well.

Some of those 6 or 7 pitchers on the IL will come back at some point down the road, others will inevitably go onto the IL in the meantime.

The Brewers allowed the fewest R/G in 2023, the 4th fewest in 2024, the 3rd fewest in 2024, the 3rd fewest so far this year, and the fewest in total from 2023 thru present.

Regression is incoming no doubt, but given their history with run prevention (they allowed the 7th fewest runs in MLB from 2017-22 also) I'd imagine they should be able to keep things within the top half dozen or so teams at limiting runs by the end of 162 games.

That’s a long term outlook, but in the short term having to start guys like Gasser, Crow, and Sproat on a regular basis while the relief corps is also shorthanded could be a problem.

The Brewers understandably seem to be trying to give Misiorowski and Harrison 5 or 6 days of rest between starts as much as possible and that was easier when they had at least one off day every week. The schedule between now and the All Star break is going to be more demanding.in terms of the number of games and innings to be covered. 
 

 

[Jim French Stepstool]

13 minutes ago, cragi said:

first im not comparing him to Burnes. someone threw it out as a strawman so im going off that. 

What ive seen in Sproat seems to me about growing pains for a young pitcher. I thought his fastball was running hotter and his movement was stronger in other starts than last night. Previously, it seemed he had a lot of movement but struggled with control. 

Last night it seemed to me he was trying to be a control pitcher and hit those corners, but then a little bit of movement: he couldn't hit those spots. I get the feeling his fastballs slowed down and his movement softened to better accommodate hitting his spots. That's where I felt the struggle came from as he may have been aiming instead of just going after guys.  I think if he can become effectively wild in the zone like Ashby, thats the upshot.

He got an earful from Hook and came back out and pitched to contact. Not the greatest but still working things out.
 

I agree with much of this. He WAS throwing harder in some of his earlier starts.

I too thought his last couple innings were not 'great' but better.