Josh Hader Traded to the Padres

[SRB]

I'm softening on the trade after the initial shock of Hader not bringing back multiple top 100 prospects. For one thing, if you think Lamet can be a plus reliever this season (a gamble, but not a crazy gamble), our 2022 bullpen is almost undeniably better with Rogers/Lamet than just Hader.

[MrTPlush]

Hader has given up runs in 2/11 postseason appearances. That is....pretty good. Judging such a measly sample size of his career postseason numbers is pretty iffy. Last year the Brewers gave him one save chance (which he successfully completed), scored zero runs twice, and gave him a tie game once where he gave up a solo shot. 2020, they never had a lead, let alone any meaningful pitching for Hader in two losses. 2019, he didn't pitch great....but Grisham really was the cherry on the top blowing that. 

 

I mean....you guys are really ripping on a guy for a 1.88 ERA in the postseason.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Just now, MrTPlush said:

Hader has given up runs in 2/11 postseason appearances. That is....pretty good. Judging such a measly sample size of his career postseason numbers is pretty iffy. Last year the Brewers gave him one save chance (which he successfully completed), scored zero runs twice, and gave him a tie game once where he gave up a solo shot. 2020, they never had a lead, let alone any meaningful pitching for Hader in two losses. 2019, he didn't pitch great....but Grisham really was the cherry on the top blowing that. 

 

I mean....you guys are really ripping on a guy for a 1.88 ERA in the postseason.

Not at all, knew someone would take it the wrong way. What it really comes down to is that with Hader the Brewers really didn't achieve much. And a significant part of the ultimate outcome (i.e. 2 losses) was Hader. He nailed down 1 whole save. Other less valuable pitchers can put up zeroes, it's not some impossible task. Other less valuable pitchers could also poop the bed and lose games in the postseason for the Brewers. But the bottom line is that what they achieved with him isn't some high bar to top.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

It happens all the dang time in the postseason. The Nationals lose an all-timer in Harper and then win it all their first year without him. I guess what I'm really saying is that the loss or departure of one player can be overcome or even surpassed via a different approach.

Hader didn't pile up saves in the Brewers postseason runs since 2018 and prove himself as the key reason they racked up playoff series victories. He wound up not propelling them forward in the postseason much at all.

[craigharmann]

What. The. Heck. I don’t get this. And I saw a tweet (Rosenthal, I think) that Wong and Narvaez were also available. We’re in 1st place in the division. Shouldn’t we be ADDING pieces, not getting rid of them? 

[edfunderburk]

5 hours ago, Eye Black said:

Taylor Rogers and prospects coming back to Milwaukee per Ken Rosenthal. 

I cannot express how happy this makes me

The 1/3 inning (bottom of the 9th) against the Giants where Hader gave up six runs on 3 HRs makes this trade a dream come true for me

And its even better to receive a successful closer in return

It will be interesting to compare Hader & Rodgers stats & saves in the final 60 games of the season

No doubt, Hader is the “better” player … but Milwaukee was never going to sign him to an extension … it was time to make a move

I hope we get a RH bat without giving away top-level prospects

I may be alone in my sheer joy - it will be fun to see if this proves to be a good trade

I love this trade

Yeah Stearns & Company ?? ⚾️

[Austin Tatious]

Honestly, if Small doesn't improve his control, Gasser could end up being the better prospect.   We have sneaky good position player prospects but could use some more quality pitching prospects.  I like Antone Kelly and Misiorowski.  Justin Jarvis is underrated.  But Gasser is a very nice add to our list of pitching prospects.  

[Brewcrew82]

9 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

Hader has given up runs in 2/11 postseason appearances. That is....pretty good. Judging such a measly sample size of his career postseason numbers is pretty iffy. Last year the Brewers gave him one save chance (which he successfully completed), scored zero runs twice, and gave him a tie game once where he gave up a solo shot. 2020, they never had a lead, let alone any meaningful pitching for Hader in two losses. 2019, he didn't pitch great....but Grisham really was the cherry on the top blowing that. 

 

I mean....you guys are really ripping on a guy for a 1.88 ERA in the postseason.

The numbers are awesome, obviously, but the runs he did give up were at extremely inopportune moments. The 2019 blow-up was pretty much all him (Yes, Grisham had the error, but Hader was the one who loaded the bases in the first place and gave up the hit to Soto). Then, last year, he gave up the home run to Freeman at a time where we desperately needed a zero. 

[rickh150]

Another couple of things under the radar…

Rogers doesn’t give up many HRs .2 HR/9 …and 1.1 WHIP

[edfunderburk]

1 hour ago, owbc said:

Yes yes yes!!! I love that we're going full Tampa Bay Rays and not giving up on being competitive after 2024. 

Small sample, but Hader hasn't been very good in the postseason. I don't think he will be missed as much as we may fear. 

I agree 100% … this is the Brewer Way!

Hope a prospect in this group pans out

Hope Lamet gets completely healthy & bounces back to pre-injury potential 

[MrTPlush]

1 minute ago, Brewcrew82 said:

The numbers are awesome, obviously, but the runs he did give up were at extremely inopportune moments. The 2019 blow-up was pretty much all him (Yes, Grisham had the error, but Hader was the one who loaded the bases in the first place and gave up the hit to Soto). Then, last year, he gave up the home run to Freeman at a time where we needed a zero. 

He is a closer, all his runs come at inopportune moments.

[MrTPlush]

1 minute ago, rickh150 said:

Another couple of things under the radar…

Rogers doesn’t give up many HRs .2 HR/9 …and 1.1 WHIP

I mean, we will see if the HR/9 translates outside of Petco Park...more likely it goes back to career norms. Of course...2-3 months is a crapshoot. Dude could perform better than Hader for all we know. 

[Brewcrew82]

Just now, MrTPlush said:

He is a closer, all his runs come at inopportune moments.

Sure. But he cost us big in two elimination games. Especially 2019. 

[edfunderburk]

1 hour ago, djoctagone said:

three of the four players are on major league contracts. the subtraction of josh hader puts the roster at 38, but the addition of three means another spot needs to be opened up on the 40-man.

taylor rogers appears to have two minor league options remaining, but has enough service time to refuse any minor league assignment.

dinelson lamet has two minor league options remaining entering spring training 2023. he has never been outrighted to the minor leagues. since 2 may, he has been sent on optional assignment twice, and has already spent at least 20 days on optional assignment this season.

esteury ruiz has three minor league options remaining. he has never been optioned or outrighted to the minor leagues.

DFA Corey Ray

[True Blue Brew Crew]

1 minute ago, MrTPlush said:

He is a closer, all his runs come at inopportune moments.

Well if it's perfection you seek, he hasn't been the guy. If you go by postseason, when it counts the most, the Brewers didn't just trade away Mariano Rivera. They traded away a guy who wound up being a mixed bag in the postseason. Does that mean he'll never pile up saves and help a team win it all? Of course not. But it doesn't mean the Brewers can't find someone to do it for them either.

[rickh150]

Out of the box would be trading Woodruff to get a monster return in a Deadline with a desert amount of top of rotation arms out there.

Peralta replaces him in the rotation, and the team gets back a couple top 100 prospects and change.

Cost conscious saves $ for arby cases next year.

 

[MoreTrife]

9 minutes ago, craigharmann said:

What. The. Heck. I don’t get this. And I saw a tweet (Rosenthal, I think) that Wong and Narvaez were also available. We’re in 1st place in the division. Shouldn’t we be ADDING pieces, not getting rid of them? 

Stearns plays 3D chess.

[Brewcrew82]

Just now, rickh150 said:

Out of the box would be trading Woodruff to get a monster return in a Deadline with a desert amount of top of rotation arms out there.

Peralta replaces him in the rotation, and the team gets back a couple top 100 prospects and change.

Cost conscious saves $ for arby cases next year.

 

No. That would be a step too far. Woodruff can be traded just as easily this offseason if that's the direction they wanted to go. 

[owbc]

1 minute ago, MrTPlush said:

He is a closer, all his runs come at inopportune moments.

In the 2018 playoffs he had 7 appearances, 10 IP, 16 K, 1 BB, 0 ER.

That's the bar he set for himself. Whether or not it is fair to expect any relief pitcher to be lights out in those moments, I don't know. Not all relief pitchers have won reliever of the year 3 times...

If the Brewers are ever going to end their pennant drought, they need someone who is going to be unhittable in those moments or they need to go with a committee approach. 

[igor67]

No one has mentioned the big winner, Dan Plesac with his career saves record saved by the trade.

[jjfanec]

I expected more highly rated prospect.  Maybe two guys in the 60-90 range.  It could easily be argued that Gasser and Ruiz could be in that range but right now they are not. Ruiz really intrigues me as a player.  His walk rate and strike out rates are very good and his power looks decent.  And obviously his speed is insane. Gasser projects as a back of the rotation guy but there is huge value in that.

 

Rogers is being underrated by many.  He is a very good reliever who has had one of the unluckiest 2 months stretches I have seen from a reliever. 21 inning with 25 ks and 5 walks and just one home run but a BAPIP of well over .400..  He has been hit hard but over that time Hader has given up more hits, extra base hits, and walks in one less inning.  Hader does have way more strikeouts though

Lamet is a huge wild card.

[patrickgpe]

1 hour ago, brewers888 said:

Looks like a completely underwhelming return but I admit to not following the minors much at all. To not even get a top 6 prospect from San Diego is not great. 

they will slot in 8/9 in our system FWIW. 

[willie key]

Can I say that I’m ok with this trade

 

which ultimately means it’s going to stink

 

I think we are still selling high on hader which I’m ok with 

[monty57]

16 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

Hader has given up runs in 2/11 postseason appearances. That is....pretty good. Judging such a measly sample size of his career postseason numbers is pretty iffy. Last year the Brewers gave him one save chance (which he successfully completed), scored zero runs twice, and gave him a tie game once where he gave up a solo shot. 2020, they never had a lead, let alone any meaningful pitching for Hader in two losses. 2019, he didn't pitch great....but Grisham really was the cherry on the top blowing that. 

 

I mean....you guys are really ripping on a guy for a 1.88 ERA in the postseason.

That's true, but there are also posters who are calling Rogers "garbage" because of his BABIP-inflated 2022 ERA, when he's actually been one of the best relievers in baseball over his six year career.

Taking emotions out of it, I think we got decent value for Hader. Stearns seems to be pretty good at evaluating young talent, and it appears that he likes Ruiz and Gasser, so I'm excited to see what they can provide.

[Brewcrew82]

Also, worth noting that the Braves won the World Series last year with an "underwhelming" deadline following the Acuna injury and with Will Freaking Smith as their closer. Not saying that we're the World Series favorites all of a sudden, but Stearns knows what he's doing.