Josh Hader Traded to the Padres

[edfunderburk]

3 hours ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

You know who else struggled in July? His initials are JH.

I have never been more befuddled than the 1/3 inning against SF … I’m still confused as to how he remained in the game long enough to give up 3 HR’s & six runs … that never happens to premiere closers … 

[SeaBass]

17 minutes ago, JefferyLeonard said:

I mean, shouldn't this paragraph say it all in describing just how valuable Hader should have been?? If any reliever should have gotten a massive haul, it was him. This is from the Athletic:

 

It’s almost unprecedented for any team to trade for a bullpen monster like Josh Hader. Then again, maybe we’ve never seen a bullpen monster like Josh Hader in any of our lifetimes.

 

He’s the most unhittable closer in history. He’s allowed the least contact of any closer in history. He’s had to work from the stretch less often than any closer in history. Looking for a definition of late-inning dominance? That about covers it.

Then why DIDN'T they get a better deal? By all reports many teams have been calling asking about him, why haven't those teams been willing to give the Brewers more?

Clearly the Brewers liked this deal, they seemingly had no pressing need to trade Hader at this deadline. Perhaps, and this is extremely general speculation since every asset is tenuous because injuries can strike anyone at any time, but perhaps the Brewers didn't want to risk something unpredictable coming along that not only ended Hader's current season, but next season as well. Remember Corey Knebel? Basically.happened with him. Jimmy Nelson too (and he's hurt again missing this season with the Dodgers).

[Never Outhustled]

30 minutes ago, JefferyLeonard said:

I mean, shouldn't this paragraph say it all in describing just how valuable Hader should have been?? If any reliever should have gotten a massive haul, it was him. This is from the Athletic:

 

It’s almost unprecedented for any team to trade for a bullpen monster like Josh Hader. Then again, maybe we’ve never seen a bullpen monster like Josh Hader in any of our lifetimes.

 

He’s the most unhittable closer in history. He’s allowed the least contact of any closer in history. He’s had to work from the stretch less often than any closer in history. Looking for a definition of late-inning dominance? That about covers it.

The most unhittable reliever ever also had an ERA over 4 and was 0 WAR. Both things can be true. 

[edfunderburk]

3 hours ago, Playing Catch said:

For people concerned about Ruiz' hit-tool, his 23 year-old season in AA/AAA has been superior to Frelick, Mitchell, and Wiemer's, with higher BB% than any of them, and lower K% than Mitchell/Wiemer, and comparable to Frelick's.

Chourio wasn't on any lists to begin the season, now he's universally regarded as one of the top prospects in the game. If he doesn't use up his rookie eligibility, Ruiz could be in for dramatic rise in prospect ratings as well.

This is the best post in this entire thread ??

[edfunderburk]

3 hours ago, AKCheesehead said:

Billy?

Former Univ Texas minor leaguer traded last year with Binelas & JBJ for Renfroe

[edfunderburk]

3 hours ago, Eye Black said:

While I realize it likely won't remain intact for long, the Brewers updated top ten prospects list is looking quite solid. 

Quite ??

[edfunderburk]

3 hours ago, mothershipconnection said:

My frustration with this trade made me come here to post for the first time in eons.

The fact that I hate it probably means that time will prove it to be a huge win for the Brewers.

 

Is the Mothership Connection moniker a tribute to the group Parliament from the mid-70’s? If so … I salute you! ?

[djoctagone]

the padres just announced that they have canceled their esteury estuary promotional giveaway at the ballpark.

[CheeseheadInQC]

3 hours ago, Eye Black said:

While I realize it likely won't remain intact for long, the Brewers updated top ten prospects list is looking quite solid. 

I looked at it and I think I have Small 13th right now. Even for someone who admittedly isn’t as high on him as some, that feels really low.

[Joseph Zarr]

1 minute ago, CheeseheadInQC said:

I looked at it and I think I have Small 13th right now. Even for someone who admittedly isn’t as high on him as some, that feels really low.

I dunno, my friend. I think it's quite easy to see Ethan drop into that 10-15 range given his struggles since his first promotional Big Club start. He's appeared to have stalemated himself - and, I want to be clear, my arbitrary ranking are always changing due to currency bias. He appears to desperately need refinement of a 3rd and exploration of a 4th pitch or he could be trending toward a middle-inning reliever. Now, he may be working on these pitches on the side and isn't comfortable as of yet - which is often the case. But, my overall point is I think 13th isn't unfair. And, I say this having been and still being a very big Ethan Small fan. 

[sveumrules]

34 minutes ago, JefferyLeonard said:

I wouldn't have done it for any less than Hassell, Campusano and Rogers. That to me is the proper return for a guy as dominant as Josh has been

That is essentially the kind of return WAS got from LAD for Max Scherzer & Trea Turner last deadline.

Even as the best reliever in baseball, Josh’s value isn’t commensurate with 1/2 a season of an ace starter plus 1 1/2 years of an All Star SS.

[monty57]

53 minutes ago, JefferyLeonard said:

I mean, shouldn't this paragraph say it all in describing just how valuable Hader should have been?? If any reliever should have gotten a massive haul, it was him. This is from the Athletic:

 

It’s almost unprecedented for any team to trade for a bullpen monster like Josh Hader. Then again, maybe we’ve never seen a bullpen monster like Josh Hader in any of our lifetimes.

 

He’s the most unhittable closer in history. He’s allowed the least contact of any closer in history. He’s had to work from the stretch less often than any closer in history. Looking for a definition of late-inning dominance? That about covers it.

And yet, his best season yielded a 2.6 WAR, and he has 9.4 WAR in his career. Relievers just aren’t that valuable relative to starters and position players. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, Playing Catch said:

It would be weird and wild, but could the Crew trade Narvaez AND Severino and get say, Sean Murphy or Willson Contreras?

The A's or Cubs are both playing out the string, and would be trading for a guy who would be leaving in 2 months & Severino. I'm sure they could do much better.

[Robocaller]

1. Josh Hader is a dominant pitcher, Taylor Rodgers is an effective pitcher. We lost value going forward, unless Hader is broken, which I don't believe.

2. Get over Hader losing a couple of postseason games. It doesn't doom the same results, particularly since overall he's been great in the playoffs.

3. Ruiz and Gasser are fine "gets" in the trade. The only negatives are that Ruiz doesn't field any position well yet (I think he'll eventually be fine in CF) and that I kept reading that SD didn't give up any of the prospects they were offering for Soto. We got the guys who aren't really great prospects. Also Ruiz has speed, but it's not elite speed--he just knows how to steal bases.

4. Lamet is a AAAA pitcher to me at this point. Maybe the brewers were OK with the other three guys and Lamet was just a throw-in. I'd have preferred someone who could be a solid 6-7 inning guy right now, or another prospect like Ruiz and Gasser. If they had gotten such a player, I'd have graded this as a win for the Brewers. 

[Playing Catch]

Just now, Jim French Stepstool said:

The A's or Cubs are both playing out the string, and would be trading for a guy who would be leaving in 2 months & Severino. I'm sure they could do much better.

Oh, I meant separate deals. Trade Narvaez and Severino to contenders that need catching help, and trade prospects to the A's/Cubs for their available catchers.

[JefferyLeonard]

1 minute ago, sveumrules said:

That is essentially the kind of return WAS got from LAD for Max Scherzer & Trea Turner last deadline.

Even as the best reliever in baseball, Josh’s value isn’t commensurate with 1/2 a season of an ace starter plus 1 1/2 years of an All Star SS.

Sure, but here's the thing. I don't think enough GM's play true "hardball". I would have. It would have been "alright, you want Josh, then I'm getting EXACTLY what I want for him, or I'm not trading him". In situations like this, you(in this case DS) holds all the cards. See how badly they really want him. They meet your price or you don't deal him. Now we will never know, but did DS even ask for more?? If you judge it just by what he said at his PC today that "the package of players SD offered was best for the organization", you could say no, he didn't. That was SD's offer and DS didn't even try bargaining for more. I don't know, maybe it turns out okay in the end, but at the VERY least Josh should have been traded somewhere where the return was at minimum a needle moving MLB bat.

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 minute ago, Playing Catch said:

Oh, I meant separate deals. Trade Narvaez and Severino to contenders that need catching help, and trade prospects to the A's/Cubs for their available catchers.

Gotcha. Makes sense for Narvaez, but you have the bugaboo of Severino being done after 162.

[Playing Catch]

1 minute ago, Robocaller said:

1. Josh Hader is a dominant pitcher, Taylor Rodgers is an effective pitcher. We lost value going forward, unless Hader is broken, which I don't believe.

2. Get over Hader losing a couple of postseason games. It doesn't doom the same results, particularly since overall he's been great in the playoffs.

3. Ruiz and Gasser are fine "gets" in the trade. The only negatives are that Ruiz doesn't field any position well yet (I think he'll eventually be fine in CF) and that I kept reading that SD didn't give up any of the prospects they were offering for Soto. We got the guys who aren't really great prospects. Also Ruiz has speed, but it's not elite speed--he just knows how to steal bases.

4. Lamet is a AAAA pitcher to me at this point. Maybe the brewers were OK with the other three guys and Lamet was just a throw-in. I'd have preferred someone who could be a solid 6-7 inning guy right now, or another prospect like Ruiz and Gasser. If they had gotten such a player, I'd have graded this as a win for the Brewers. 

I agree with everything you said except that based on what I've read, Ruiz does have elite speed. I, too, would've liked to have one more 18-year old lottery ticket added to the deal.

[sveumrules]

3 minutes ago, monty57 said:

And yet, his best season yielded a 2.6 WAR, and he has 9.4 WAR in his career. Relievers just aren’t that valuable relative to starters and position players. 

Just to build out on the Max/Trea comparison above, Scherzer put up 2.7 WAR with the Dodgers & Turner is at 6.1 and counting.

By the end of 2022, less than two months of Scherzer and eight months of Trea will have likely surpassed Hader’s career WAR total.

[Robocaller]

3 minutes ago, Playing Catch said:

I agree with everything you said except that based on what I've read, Ruiz does have elite speed. I, too, would've liked to have one more 18-year old lottery ticket added to the deal.

Apparently we read different scouting reports. 

[wallus]

Trading Hader was a foregone conclusion and the writing was on the wall despite what a few vocal posters told me. This is an interesting trade that has the potential to help us this season, saves us a little money and gives us a couple of interesting prospects for the future.

I am curious to see if Lamet and Ruiz help us out this year. I thought Rogers was pretty nasty when we played against the Padres.

[Never Outhustled]

8 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

The A's or Cubs are both playing out the string, and would be trading for a guy who would be leaving in 2 months & Severino. I'm sure they could do much better.

He's not saying trade then for each other, just asking the team to both sell and buy in separate deals. 

I wouldn't want Contreras catching for my team, but as a DH he be a monster upgrade over McCutchen. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 minute ago, Never Outhustled said:

He's not saying trade then for each other, just asking the team to both sell and buy in separate deals. 

I wouldn't want Contreras catching for my team, but as a DH he be a monster upgrade over McCutchen. 

Yep, we cleared that up. If one goes, IMO it would be Omar.

[Joseph Zarr]

6 minutes ago, Robocaller said:

Apparently we read different scouting reports. 

He's fast. Very fast. 

[Playing Catch]

5 minutes ago, Robocaller said:

Apparently we read different scouting reports. 

From Baseball Savant.

Bernie Pleskoff