Game Thread (8/23/2022): Brewers (Burnes) at Dodgers (Gonsolin) - 9:10 PM CDT

[Eye Black]

[Eye Black]

Former St. Mary’s Gaels teammates Corbin Burnes and Tony Gonsolin face off tonight. 

[Never Outhustled]

Hiura now has an OPS 435 points higher than McCutchen versus RHP this year. I wonder who DHs today? I'll guess they'll somehow decide to go with McCutchen. If they do, we don't really deserve to win. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

After watching a very disappointing Twins game at Target Field and then listening to two innings of the Brewers game on way home, I woke up to a very pleasant surprise in the box score.

Do that again, please. 

[treego14]

Burnes is going to Burn the house down tonight!

Brewers are throwing the Gauntlet down on Gonsolin tonight!

[LouisEly]

Wonder what Dodgers fans are saying about their team after getting shut out by the Brewers #4/#5 starter and a couple of AAAA relievers.  Clearly they didn't acquire enough bats at the trade deadline.

[Sixtolezcano]

2 hours ago, LouisEly said:

Wonder what Dodgers fans are saying about their team after getting shut out by the Brewers #4/#5 starter and a couple of AAAA relievers.  Clearly they didn't acquire enough bats at the trade deadline.

That’s hilarious LOL.

[BruisedCrew]

4 hours ago, Never Outhustled said:

Hiura now has an OPS 435 points higher than McCutchen versus RHP this year. I wonder who DHs today? I'll guess they'll somehow decide to go with McCutchen. If they do, we don't really deserve to win. 

I know they don’t want to do this too often, but I would be putting McCutchen in CF and Hiura at DH. The biggest marginal gain the Brewers can make in their lineup is by replacing Taylor or Davis, not McCutchen. Then hope the drop in defense doesn’t hurt you.

I hear the incessant drumbeat about how Hiura destroys righties and can’t touch lefties, but it’s Hiura’s fault that he can’t get more playing time. Because he’s a liability wherever he plays in the field and can’t hit LHP he becomes pretty limited in what you can do with him.

I also hear about changes he’s made at the plate that have led to his improved hitting this year. Is there any reason why those changes can’t also help him hit LHP? He has had a few hits, I think including 2 HR against LHP in the last week or so. So maybe people shouldn’t be calling for Counsell to be fired when he plays Hiura against a LHP or leaves him in to hit when one enters. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

5 minutes ago, BruisedCrew said:

I know they don’t want to do this too often, but I would be putting McCutchen in CF and Hiura at DH. The biggest marginal gain the Brewers can make in their lineup is by replacing Taylor or Davis, not McCutchen. Then hope the drop in defense doesn’t hurt you.

I hear the incessant drumbeat about how Hiura destroys righties and can’t touch lefties, but it’s Hiura’s fault that he can’t get more playing time. Because he’s a liability wherever he plays in the field and can’t hit LHP he becomes pretty limited in what you can do with him.

I also hear about changes he’s made at the plate that have led to his improved hitting this year. Is there any reason why those changes can’t also help him hit LHP? He has had a few hits, I think including 2 HR against LHP in the last week or so. So maybe people shouldn’t be calling for Counsell to be fired when he plays Hiura against a LHP or leaves him in to hit when one enters. 

It is simple conventional wisdom that a right-handed hitter should have better success against left-handed pitching. Hiura has been a huge reason why this team has sucked against lefties this year. He was 100% a guy they were expecting to hammer lefties this year.

[nate82]

Just now, BruisedCrew said:

I know they don’t want to do this too often, but I would be putting McCutchen in CF and Hiura at DH. The biggest marginal gain the Brewers can make in their lineup is by replacing Taylor or Davis, not McCutchen. Then hope the drop in defense doesn’t hurt you.

I hear the incessant drumbeat about how Hiura destroys righties and can’t touch lefties, but it’s Hiura’s fault that he can’t get more playing time. Because he’s a liability wherever he plays in the field and can’t hit LHP he becomes pretty limited in what you can do with him.

I also hear about changes he’s made at the plate that have led to his improved hitting this year. Is there any reason why those changes can’t also help him hit LHP? He has had a few hits, I think including 2 HR against LHP in the last week or so. So maybe people shouldn’t be calling for Counsell to be fired when he plays Hiura against a LHP or leaves him in to hit when one enters. 

McCutchen should be playing LF against LHP and Yelich should be sitting.  The only problem with this then is that Hiura would have to be the DH against LHP.  I would be fine with this as I don't believe in the reverse splits for Hiura it just doesn't make any logical sense at all.  

Also the Brewers really don't have another RH bat with Brosseau possibly being hurt to put in the lineup against a LHP.  Tellez is another problem but less so against LHP.  The Brewers really needed another RH bat to hit against LHP and with Brosseau possibly being out that may cause some more issues against LHP.  So Hiura is going to have to face LHP reverse splits or no reverse splits.  

Against RHP I would just play matchup and get McCutchen some days in LF when Yelich needs a day off and at DH if Hiura looks to be slipping at all.  At smaller parks like in Cincinnati I would put McCutchen in CF but no way he should be playing in CF where there needs to be a lot of ground covered.  Yelich is bad enough in LF and Renfroe should really be playing LF and not RF.  

The problem is that Yelich has turned into a ground ball machine against LHP.  Nearly every zone against LHP for Yelich is at a negative launch angle so the ball is just going straight into the ground.  

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

It is simple conventional wisdom that a right-handed hitter should have better success against left-handed pitching. Hiura has been a huge reason why this team has sucked against lefties this year. He was 100% a guy they were expecting to hammer lefties this year.

Well he's had reverse splits the 3 years prior to this year so if it's surprising to management, that's not a good look.

[Never Outhustled]

53 minutes ago, timpep said:

Well he's had reverse splits the 3 years prior to this year so if it's surprising to management, that's not a good look.

Yup, the same in the minors too. I can't wrap my mind around how people can't understand this. It's not rocket science. 

It's really easy to get Hiura in the lineup. He's simply as great as any hitter they've ever had against RHP. Versus a rhp, you simply ink him into the lineup, then fill in the rest of the spots.

[Outlander]

1 hour ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

It is simple conventional wisdom that a right-handed hitter should have better success against left-handed pitching. Hiura has been a huge reason why this team has sucked against lefties this year. He was 100% a guy they were expecting to hammer lefties this year.

Nah, he has always been bad against lefties, probably closer to 0% than 100% that they were ever counting on him to hammer lefties.

[Never Outhustled]

1 hour ago, nate82 said:

McCutchen should be playing LF against LHP and Yelich should be sitting. 

 

Yelich has a 766 OPS versus LH starters, so he should still start. However, he gets destroyed by LH relief specialist, so they should PH for him consistently. 

Yes, the team doesn't have enough quality, complete players. Adding 1 high quality hitter to this team would change the lineup significantly, especially when he takes McCutchen's roster spot so the team has some positional versatility. 

Having 2 RHH CFs on the roster, one they can't hit and the other that hasn't hit, is also a detriment. 

[Hopper]

lol

yeah, just keep fighting the fact that Hiura crushes RHP.  

Some here are no better than Counsell.

[wildcat83]

2 hours ago, BruisedCrew said:

Because he’s a liability wherever he plays in the field and can’t hit LHP he becomes pretty limited in what you can do with him. 

I think he’s greatly exceeded expectations this year defensively, especially at 1B.  I don’t remember very many bad plays this year, and he’s had a few gems this past week.

[Robocaller]

Be an ace, Burnsie!

[Robocaller]

1 hour ago, Outlander said:

Nah, he has always been bad against lefties, probably closer to 0% than 100% that they were ever counting on him to hammer lefties.

yeah, I'd word it more like they were hoping he'd start to hit better against lefties, because that's what most RH hitters do. So they are giving him opportunities.  They should give him more opportunities vs. RHP.

[Robocaller]

23 minutes ago, wildcat83 said:

I think he’s greatly exceeded expectations this year defensively, especially at 1B.  I don’t remember very many bad plays this year, and he’s had a few gems this past week.

His limited fielding stats at 1B suggest he's fine there.

[BruisedCrew]

2 hours ago, Never Outhustled said:

Yup, the same in the minors too. I can't wrap my mind around how people can't understand this. It's not rocket science. 

It's really easy to get Hiura in the lineup. He's simply as great as any hitter they've ever had against RHP. Versus a rhp, you simply ink him into the lineup, then fill in the rest of the spots.

When Hiura was inked into the starting lineup every day in 2020 and for the first month or so in 2021, and given somewhat regular ABs early this year, he was pretty miserable against both LHP and RHP. IMHO he didn’t do anything to show that he deserved to be put in the lineup every day.

His success this year has come in a relatively low number of ABs after a slow start, so I can’t be too critical of the decision to give other players like Peterson and McCutchen those ABs when they were available. 

I would ride the hot hand now to see if it will last, but I would wait to see more ABs before declaring someone as great as any hitter the Brewers have ever had against RHP. He doesn’t even have a full season of plate appearances yet, and for much of the time his strikeout rate has made him unuseable. 
 

BTW, Hiura was in the starting lineup as DH against Gonsolin last week and had one of the two hits the Brewers had against him. So, there’s no reason to think he won’t be in the lineup tonight. 

[BruisedCrew]

15 minutes ago, Robocaller said:

His limited fielding stats at 1B suggest he's fine there.

His limited time there doesn’t give us much to go on but putting him there over Tellez against RHP doesn’t gain you much, if anything, anyway unless you believe that he can hit at the same rate in 400 or so ABs as he has in the 75 or so he’s had this year. 
 

If managers made decisions based on 100 ABs or less Hurricane Bob Hazle would have played over Hank Aaron in 1957. 

[Sixtolezcano]

3 hours ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

It is simple conventional wisdom that a right-handed hitter should have better success against left-handed pitching. Hiura has been a huge reason why this team has sucked against lefties this year. He was 100% a guy they were expecting to hammer lefties this year.

Wow, do you think this occurs 100% of the time? No chance for any other outcome?

[willie key]

Hiura just takes a beating.   Now he’s the reason why we stink against lefties

i get why it’s hard to fit him in the lineup because it’s hard to find a position for him.    Too bad he couldn’t play shortstop he can just stink it up and bat second all year or if he had a 100 million dollar contract he’d could just slap around grounders and strike out a bunch and bat leadoff all season 

at this point hiura deserves to be shoe horned in the lineup.    I don’t care about any of the other players.   They had their chances and were crap all year

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, BruisedCrew said:

His limited time there doesn’t give us much to go on but putting him there over Tellez against RHP doesn’t gain you much, if anything, anyway unless you believe that he can hit at the same rate in 400 or so ABs as he has in the 75 or so he’s had this year. 
 

If managers made decisions based on 100 ABs or less Hurricane Bob Hazle would have played over Hank Aaron in 1957. 

To be fair Hiura has a career .874 OPS in 650 PA vs rightes. Still not a huge pile of data but more than 100AB.

[markedman5]