Brewers Acquire Owen Miller From CLE; Feliciano DFA'd

[Thurston Fluff]

12 minutes ago, igor67 said:

I still assume Huira will be dealt. Are there any moderately expensive relievers with a good track record out there? Free agents might be a tad too expensive, but someone a notch above Boxberger but more expensive might be an attractive swap for both teams.

I thought the same thing. It doesn't have to be someone overpaid but someone with a reputation for being reliable in the last year of a contract on a non-contending team might find Huira interesting enough to take a flyer on. If he rebounds they have him under control for a while or they can flip him for prospects.

[Brock Beauchamp]

32 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

Disagreement on topic is encouraged.

Touche. Yes indeed.

[RWeeksFan23]

Owen Miller = Matthew Dellevedova

[sveumrules]

17 minutes ago, RWeeksFan23 said:

Owen Miller = Matthew Dellevedova

Delly got four years and $38M though.

Miller is probably more like Nwora. Might have some upside in there but doesn't offer enough currently to be in the regular rotation when everyone is healthy.

[Robocaller]

4 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

I don't know about that. There have been some long threads debating  Hiura in the past. The Brewers didn't non-tender him, so anything is possible, but his big 2019 season keeps receding further and further in the rearview mirror. 

 

Hiura had a .866 OPS vs RHP in 2022. That's pretty close in the rearview mirror.

[Hopper]

1 minute ago, Robocaller said:

Hiura had a .866 OPS vs RHP in 2022. That's pretty close in the rearview mirror.

yet still seemed to start primarily against lefties.

*shaking head*

The kid was sooooooo mismanaged last year it isn't even funny.

[Jopal78]

23 minutes ago, Robocaller said:

Hiura had a .866 OPS vs RHP in 2022. That's pretty close in the rearview mirror.

This has been hashed out ad nauseum in other places. When 11 of your 35 hits against RHP go over the fence, the OPS should be sky high. To wit, if Hiura is capable of putting 31% of his hits over the fence for a whole season, he'd be on his way to Cooperstown.

[UpandIn]

12 hours ago, jakedood said:

A good way to reset this thread...

 

Would I rather have Owen Miller than Feliciano right now? 100%

We have a 3rd catcher in Henry

Feliciano is the Dominican league is god awful right now with a 193/261/205 line, and hasnt shown much improvement at the plate, as well as regressing with the bat (per reports I heard throughout the season). A player who had promise but seems largely unfulfilled now.

 

Miller has a promising AAA stats line, a very fast athletic guy with versatility and probably allows Toro to spend a little more time honing his skills at that level as he's more upside... certainly more useful in here and now than Feliciano who I'm guessing most of the attachment is due to his initial promise over recent performance

I think this is a little reach. If he was just crushing it in the Dominican league, would you feel differently? It's just 90 ABs. 

I still like him and I hope he ends up back in the system. Still coming off a solid season in AAA for a 23 year old catcher, but easy to see why they let him go with Quero coming up behind him and Contreras on the roster.

[UpandIn]

3 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

This has been hashed out ad nauseum in other places. When 11 of your 35 hits against RHP go over the fence, the OPS should be sky high. To wit, if Hiura is capable of putting 31% of his hits over the fence for a whole season, he'd be on his way to Cooperstown.

You mean if he's capable of doing the thing that he...just did last year?

Just maybe they should...and this is a CRAZY idea, I get it, I'm way out on a ledge here...but maybe they should see if he can on a regular basis?

 

I know it's in direct contrast to the "put your player in the situations he's less likely to succeed" ethos, but...just might make sense going against the grain on this one. 

[rickh150]

3 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

This has been hashed out ad nauseum in other places. When 11 of your 35 hits against RHP go over the fence, the OPS should be sky high. To wit, if Hiura is capable of putting 31% of his hits over the fence for a whole season, he'd be on his way to Cooperstown.

His overall OPS was better than our star shortstop batting #2 all year.
Just get Clutch his at bats was the motto. It didn’t really matter what Hiura did. Still. If only there was a DH in the National League…

[brewcrewdue80]

11 hours ago, jay87shot said:

Owen Miller is a decent get, he does seem a bit redundant with Toro, Hiura, and Brosseau. It is nice that he (and Toro I believe) have options. Someone brought up that he improves on the utility spot because he can play short but I would guess that he won't play much short because if Willy is out, Turang would go to SS. 

My only complaint is that he hasn't played OF, it would be nice if one of the 4 semi utility/bench options could play OF as a 5th guy. However if Mitchell and Frelich both make the team I guess Winker would be the 5th OF and have your utility guy play OF not needed.

.

Turang does have CF experience after last season. (I'd imagine in pinch they can find a position out there that completes 3 OF because I wouldn't play him over Mitchell in CF)

Tyrone Taylor still is on the team. I just can't see Milw starting the season without Frelick on Opening day roster.

Top 3 in RoY is all that it takes to be awarded the draft pick. Turang it'll be interesting if he finds himself on 2 lists when preseason rankings are updated. Maybe the knowledge with Wong gone, 2b is open they'll put him in top 100 since he'd graduate off the list only some weeks later. All that said, you put Frelick, Mitchell, Yelich, Winker, Taylor there's 5 deep. 

[brewcrewdue80]

8 hours ago, monty57 said:

I don't see a need for Hiura, especially since we got Winker for DH. I'd think that Hiura will be traded away pretty soon, setting up a Spring Training battle between Miller and Toro for the final spot on the bench.

I initially thought that this acquisition could be the end of the speculation of whether we'd go after a third baseman, but I think it could have more effect on Turang. If we acquire a 3B, Urias would probably move to 2B, and Miller / Toro would be the utility guy, allowing for Turang to start the season in AAA. I'd be fine with that. I'd rather see someone like Miller getting sporadic playing time on the bench instead of Turang or Urias.

Miller & Toro I'm thinking are depth and headed for AAA. I think when you acquire a 3B FA (Turner), that Urias moves to 2b, Turang is backup 2b/SS. Brosseau is backup 3b. It does take two to tango and Taylor continues a non-intrest in playing for Milw.

We're out ahead in that scenario with Toro and now Miller. 

As of now I'm at

Yelich, Winker, Mitchell, Taylor, Frelick, Tellez, Adames, Urias, Contreras, Caratini, Brosseau, Turang, and Hiura for 13 batters. You get Turner or another starting 3b, I'm trading Hiura then 1st or Taylor 2nd. 

Miller as mentioned, I view him as security in case some moves change the roster as it stands.  In case of injury. And seeing if he continues on an upward trend entering age 27 to make room on roster. (Plus Spring Training fan winning on those SS games)

[UpandIn]

3 minutes ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

Turang does have CF experience after last season. (I'd imagine in pinch they can find a position out there that completes 3 OF because I wouldn't play him over Mitchell in CF)

Tyrone Taylor still is on the team. I just can't see Milw starting the season without Frelick on Opening day roster.

Top 3 in RoY is all that it takes to be awarded the draft pick. Turang it'll be interesting if he finds himself on 2 lists when preseason rankings are updated. Maybe the knowledge with Wong gone, 2b is open they'll put him in top 100 since he'd graduate off the list only some weeks later. All that said, you put Frelick, Mitchell, Yelich, Winker, Taylor there's 5 deep. 

I don't really get what happened that caused him to fall off. He was on it...then as a 21 year old SS with plus defense in AAA hit like...what, ~.250/.380? Very little power, but speed an D at the 2nd most important position defensively. Hopefully his power surge at the end of last year puts him on some lists and...who knows. 

 

[brewcrewdue80]

8 minutes ago, UpandIn said:

I don't really get what happened that caused him to fall off. He was on it...then as a 21 year old SS with plus defense in AAA hit like...what, ~.250/.380? Very little power, but speed an D at the 2nd most important position defensively. Hopefully his power surge at the end of last year puts him on some lists and...who knows. 

 

He didn't hit enough HRs in 21(and Wiemer did). The increase last year goes in line why I think he could return.  Mitchell maybe too jumps back up. They can slide Wiemer just outside top 100 after hitting less HRs in more ABs.

[UpandIn]

1 hour ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

He didn't hit enough HRs in 21(and Wiemer did). The increase last year goes in line why I think he could return.  Mitchell maybe too jumps back up. They can slide Wiemer just outside top 100 after hitting less HRs in more ABs.

Maybe, but do they really place  that much importance on HRs? He wasn't exactly Barry Bonds(size 8 3/4ths head size version) prior to 2021 when he was on the top 100. 

I think it's really just because...he's kinda boring. He was one of those guys who was projected as high as the top 5 at one point(seems like there are about 40 of them each year). He fell, mainly because he was just not spectacular, then the Brewers drafted him and he continued to be very young and solid at each level. So given how low he was, it was probably more just different players having breakouts, or the early picks. But if there's any year he deserves to be in the lower end of the top 100, it's coming off a .770+ OPS as a 22 year old who moved all over playing elite Defense and who got better the 2nd half of the year.

I really don't think Wiemer should drop. He continued producing and had a really outstanding run at AAA. I'm not sure people appreciate his upside enough. Or maybe it's just the range out outcomes he's got. He could be a superstar or he could be a...Keon Broxton type. I really think we've got 3-4+ guys who should be top 100. The three who are, Turang, then Mitchell, Black and Quero could all be in that next group with Misiorowski a guy who could move VERY quickly and hit that top 100.

 

I also think it's really just stupid how much importance these 100 lists play. Avina isn't even on our top 30 prospects on MLB.com. You could pretty easily argue he's a top 10 prospect in the system...but not even top 30. Really hope they go after pitching hard as they seem to be stacked with position players. Very underrated position prospects.

[UpandIn]

3 hours ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

Turang does have CF experience after last season. (I'd imagine in pinch they can find a position out there that completes 3 OF because I wouldn't play him over Mitchell in CF)

Tyrone Taylor still is on the team. I just can't see Milw starting the season without Frelick on Opening day roster.

Top 3 in RoY is all that it takes to be awarded the draft pick. Turang it'll be interesting if he finds himself on 2 lists when preseason rankings are updated. Maybe the knowledge with Wong gone, 2b is open they'll put him in top 100 since he'd graduate off the list only some weeks later. All that said, you put Frelick, Mitchell, Yelich, Winker, Taylor there's 5 deep. 

I think you need to be on the OD roster get draft compensation. 

It's pretty hard to work all this nonsense out the CBA wasn't completed until they decided on the international draft and that factored into it in the original CBA, but...long story short, gotta be on the OD. Though you still get a full service year if you're in the top 3. So the Os don't get one. The Mariners I believe do and I don't think anyone else does. Not the Braves for Harris(top 100) or Strider(OD but not top 100...in fact, not top 20 on the Braves own just a year earlier). 

The O's don't get one for Adley because he wasn't there OD. 

This system needs some tweaks. 

[Robocaller]

13 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

This has been hashed out ad nauseum in other places. When 11 of your 35 hits against RHP go over the fence, the OPS should be sky high. To wit, if Hiura is capable of putting 31% of his hits over the fence for a whole season, he'd be on his way to Cooperstown.

Just because someone sometime made a bad argument that agrees with you doesn't mean that you're right. It's hard to imagine a player denigrated for hitting 11 HRs in limited ABs.

[Robocaller]

5 hours ago, UpandIn said:

I think you need to be on the OD roster get draft compensation. 

 

You don't need to be on the opening day roster, but you do within about 2 weeks to have enough days of service.

[Robocaller]

9 hours ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

Miller & Toro I'm thinking are depth and headed for AAA. I think when you acquire a 3B FA (Turner), that Urias moves to 2b, Turang is backup 2b/SS. Brosseau is backup 3b. It does take two to tango and Taylor continues a non-intrest in playing for Milw.

We're out ahead in that scenario with Toro and now Miller. 

As of now I'm at

Yelich, Winker, Mitchell, Taylor, Frelick, Tellez, Adames, Urias, Contreras, Caratini, Brosseau, Turang, and Hiura for 13 batters. You get Turner or another starting 3b, I'm trading Hiura then 1st or Taylor 2nd. 

Miller as mentioned, I view him as security in case some moves change the roster as it stands.  In case of injury. And seeing if he continues on an upward trend entering age 27 to make room on roster. (Plus Spring Training fan winning on those SS games)

I'd love it they did that, but I think they'll keep Turang down until sometime in June (super 2).

 

[Robocaller]

9 hours ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

Turang does have CF experience after last season. (I'd imagine in pinch they can find a position out there that completes 3 OF because I wouldn't play him over Mitchell in CF)

Tyrone Taylor still is on the team. I just can't see Milw starting the season without Frelick on Opening day roster.

Top 3 in RoY is all that it takes to be awarded the draft pick. Turang it'll be interesting if he finds himself on 2 lists when preseason rankings are updated. Maybe the knowledge with Wong gone, 2b is open they'll put him in top 100 since he'd graduate off the list only some weeks later. All that said, you put Frelick, Mitchell, Yelich, Winker, Taylor there's 5 deep. 

We're good at CF. Turang should probably never play there.

 

[brewmann04]

There were once another Brewers SS that made a pretty Good CF

[monty57]

13 hours ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

Miller & Toro I'm thinking are depth and headed for AAA. I think when you acquire a 3B FA (Turner), that Urias moves to 2b, Turang is backup 2b/SS. Brosseau is backup 3b. It does take two to tango and Taylor continues a non-intrest in playing for Milw.

We're out ahead in that scenario with Toro and now Miller. 

As of now I'm at

Yelich, Winker, Mitchell, Taylor, Frelick, Tellez, Adames, Urias, Contreras, Caratini, Brosseau, Turang, and Hiura for 13 batters. You get Turner or another starting 3b, I'm trading Hiura then 1st or Taylor 2nd. 

Miller as mentioned, I view him as security in case some moves change the roster as it stands.  In case of injury. And seeing if he continues on an upward trend entering age 27 to make room on roster. (Plus Spring Training fan winning on those SS games)

I just hate the idea of taking the guy who is far-and-away our best IF prospect and sitting him on the bench. Either let him start, or let him play everyday in AAA.

I get that we all like him more than Miller or Toro. That's why he needs to get everyday PAs. Bringing him up as a backup would waste his service time and probably hurt his development relative to letting him start in either AAA or MLB.

Let Toro or Miller ride the pine and get a handful of PAs per week while being paid league minimum. That's a good use of their pre-arby "cheap years," while it would be a waste of Turang's.

[wibadgers23]

Turang has played a total of 175 games in Nashville over the span of two years.  He needs to play now.  If not now, then when?  

[sveumrules]

5 hours ago, Robocaller said:

Just because someone sometime made a bad argument that agrees with you doesn't mean that you're right. It's hard to imagine a player denigrated for hitting 11 HRs in limited ABs.

HR/FB% is one of the flukiest stats which takes the longest to stabilize. In his tiny sample of 157 PAs vs RHP in 2022 Keston posted a 36.7 HR/FB%.

For reference on how fluky that is, Hiura has a career 23.1 HR/FB% and Aaron Judge just put up the best post-Bonds offensive season with a 35.6 HR/FB%.

Much like his 2019 performance vs RHP wasn’t sustainable due to out of whack K%, BABIP and HR/FB%, neither does his 2022 performance appear to be…

2019 vs RHP: 265 PA | 30.2 K% | .415 BABIP | 29.5 HR/FB% | 159 wRC+

2020-21 vs RHP: 321 PA | 35.5 K% | .263 BABIP | 20.9 HR/FB% | 82 wRC+

2022 vs RHP: 157 PA | 39.5 K% | .369 BABIP | 36.7 HR/FB% | 143 wRC+

We don’t need to wait until 2023 to see if regression will kick in, it already happened to close out 2022.

Looking at full season numbers Keston’s 2022 peaked on August 22nd when he had a 144 wRC+ with a 42.8 K%, .381 BABIP and 41.9 HR/FB% through 173 PAs.

From August 23rd through the end of the season he posted a 63 wRC+ with a 39.8 K%, .319 BABIP and 6.3 HR/FB% over 93 PAs.

[areacodes]

5 hours ago, brewmann04 said:

There were once another Brewers SS that made a pretty Good CF

Bill Hall?