Packers 2023 Discussion Thread

[BrewerFan]

5 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

Ugh... I was actually hoping for a little lower.  But he is better than Carr or Goff.  But if that is an extension, 6/$172.5M maybe isn't horrid. 

Just look at what Daniel Jones signed for. If you're a starting QB, you're getting 30M a year. That's pretty much the baseline and with the cap expected to jump(they spread the Covid losses out over 4 years, but were ahead of schedule repaying it) that could be one of the cheaper QB salaries.

5 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

I don't think Love played well the first 3 games.  Maybe the Chicago game... He hit on some big plays, but had a very low completion percentage, was often late on passes, missed easy check-down passes, and (as previously mentioned) threw to covered WRs often.  Maybe we won or he had decent TD/INT numbers, but the underlying view of those games didn't look good, IMO. 

I disagree. He was making big throws. He was clearly missing on some easy passes, but I think that's exaggerated. There was a HUGE throw to Musgrave for example, that was the Bears game(I'm pretty certain) but he took the check-downs, he took what was there. Vs the Saints, he struggled early on but then got going.

Missing the check-downs was more in the ensuing 4 game stretch. He was throwing the ball downfield a lot, but that was in the game plan.

I also believe you have to take a wholistic view of it. If you're going to compare him to seasoned vets, then sure, he wasn't good, but I think we're all grading him on a curve here, no? Looking at his development, ball placement, those underlying indicators you're talking about. He was going through his reads, he was starting off with his first read, going through them and often coming all the way back. A HUGE part of that the fronts we played. They didn't pressure him, but he was playing well.

 

5 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

I railed on Love early in the season for that.  He was often late, constantly throwing to a WR with the CB on his back that was easily knocked down.  But that has decreased drastically recently (I remember it happening 1x last game).  Every QB is going to throw to a covered WR... the best ones "throw them open".  Besides a few underthrown deep passes, Love has made pretty good decisions the last 4 games.

He was late on a few. There was one big one vs Doubs where it was particularly obvious re-watching it. He was also struggling with that out route. Throwing it juuust a shade too much inside where the DB can make a play on it. 

But the WRers were also struggling to create separation and so much of it is developing chemistry. We clearly took that for granted with Rodgers. He was demanding and he got on WRers, but the game moves so fast, you need to know exactly when a WRer is going to break, if he's going against zone, you're sometimes expecting him to read that and adjust and he's just running his route as it's called.

I think as we've seen the WRers grow, getting Watson back has been huge, but we've also seen Love throw the ball with more conviction and a little quicker. 

But even in those games where he was completing 50% of his passes, he was making throws that not many QBs can make and using his feet to extend plays. They were a last second FG from starting the season 3-0 and while he wasn't prime Rodgers, he was showing more than enough to make you excited that we'd found our starting QB.

The biggest thing he's improved at...IMO, are those throws that put a WRer into concussion protocol. Again, Rodgers was so good in this regard. He VERY seldom put his WRers in danger. Maybe even to the detriment of the team as he didn't like working over the middle(not sure if that started when Cobb broke his leg on that low hit, or with Finley's injury and just the lack of a consistent threat down the seam). But he's gotten SO much better in that regard. 

That probably lines up with getting the ball out quicker, giving the receiver a chance to protect himself, but these are things you expect a young QB to struggle with IMO. 

 

5 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

Honestly, I don't recall many PIs in our favor.  There have been a few, but it isn't egregious either.  Pretty obvious calls, IMO. It would be awesome if Love-Watson went full-on Culpepper-Moss... 😂

There was a stretch, through the first 3 games IIRC...the Packers had by FAR the most penalties and penalty yards in the NFL(almost 100 per game). But they DID have 4 DPI calls go their way. 2 vs the Falcons and 2 vs the Saints. It was 3 of their 4 longest gains through 3 weeks.

But I don't recall a disproportionate number since then. 

EDIT-Video now available. It's just on YouTube;

"New Orleans Saints vs. Green Bay Packers Game Highlights | NFL 2023 Week 3."

It's helpful to go back and just watch the highlights. I started this in the 2nd half when Love gets rolling(definitely some poor decisions early on, but also very little separation). But the incredible throw to Doubs~7:45 and then Reed at ~12:20, were incredible balls. There's a missed DPI on Toure earlier. There's a clear DPI where you could call it a bail-out at 10:14. One of those underthrown balls where the WRer works back, but the DB doesn't see it. Fairly common. 

Then another blatant one a few seconds later. Both times the DB could have just made a play if he gets his head around, but that's also part of the game. Identifying the one one-on-one and giving your WRer a chance.

There were also 2 vs ATL for 45 and 43 yards. 

I'd say just rewatching this game, the difference in 1st half to 2nd half is obviously a couple of amazing throws, him using his feet, but he's definitely taking the easy throw MORE often.

 

 

Now, is Love-Watson becoming Culpepper-Moss? Hell, Watson is more physical than Moss. I'm expecting a better version! 

 

 

[BrewerFan]

1 hour ago, GAME05 said:

If Daniel Jones can get $42M and Geno Smith can get $33 for one good season, $30M for Love is a steal.

I wonder if the NFL will ever copy the NBA and institute maximum salaries so that the QB position doesn't suck up all of the cap money.

That's an interesting question as it'd probably benefit the NFLPA to do so. QBs ARE actually overpaid IMO. 

We're talking about what a massive discount this would be for Love(or if not a discount a favorable deal for the Packers). 

I don't think we actually see any changes as unions really never limit what a member can earn, but in this particular case, it'd make some sense.

The bigger thing with Love is the GTD money. I'd ideally want to stick to ~80M, maybe 100M GTD vs injury. That way in a year or two IF he's not progressing as you hope, you can get out of it with a big, but not devastating cap hit. 

I'm really curious what the Packers think at this point. I'm about 80% convinced Love is the right guy and that if you allow the receiving core to develop, work on that OL so that he has time to throw like he has in pretty much every game he's had success.

They've also played themselves out of realistically trading for one of the top QBs or being in position to draft one, so it's a JJ McCarthy-type pick if you did want to go another route. That seems like a poor use of resources, but...who knows. 

[CheezWizHed]

37 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

Just look at what Daniel Jones signed for. If you're a starting QB, you're getting 30M a year. That's pretty much the baseline and with the cap expected to jump(they spread the Covid losses out over 4 years, but were ahead of schedule repaying it) that could be one of the cheaper QB salaries.

Yes, I'm sure my figures for a starting QB are probably skewed... just hoping to stay away from the Rodgers-esque strangle hold on the salary cap for just one or two years... 😂

 

38 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

He was late on a few. There was one big one vs Doubs where it was particularly obvious re-watching it. He was also struggling with that out route. Throwing it juuust a shade too much inside where the DB can make a play on it. 

But the WRers were also struggling to create separation and so much of it is developing chemistry. We clearly took that for granted with Rodgers. He was demanding and he got on WRers, but the game moves so fast, you need to know exactly when a WRer is going to break, if he's going against zone, you're sometimes expecting him to read that and adjust and he's just running his route as it's called.

He was late on a BUNCH of throws early. Even back to the Chicago game.  It didn't click with me at first that he was late.  He was throwing to receivers that had someone directly behind them.  So the defensive player simply reached around and knocked down or wrapped up the arms so the ball was incomplete. 

As I wondered why that continued to happen, I realized that he was simply late and allowing the defensive player to close.  It didn't take much, but happens when you are reacting to the play instead of anticipating the play.

Yes, our WRs are playing better - and better receivers (Reed, Musgrave) are getting more opportunities.  But Love is clearly seeing the play happen better and throwing the ball before the receiver gets there; either hitting them on the run or giving them that split second more to secure the ball before being hit.

Making "big throws" wasn't necessarily Love's issue.  It was making the "gotta-have-it" throws to move the chains and continue the drive.  That was the part missing early on.  He got a lot of help against the Bears, Saints, and Falcons (YAC, PIs, or just bad D) so he scored a lot without looking overly good at the same time. 

His play the last 4 games looks much different than his play in the first 3. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

Love still is struggling to throw deep on time....I actually would really like to see him overthrow a post or deep fly route by a few yards, which would indicate he's making the read to throw the ball on time instead of waiting to see it break open and then not be able to get it far enough out there to hit a streaking open receiver in stride.

[BrewerFan]

2 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Love still is struggling to throw deep on time....I actually would really like to see him overthrow a post or deep fly route by a few yards, which would indicate he's making the read to throw the ball on time instead of waiting to see it break open and then not be able to get it far enough out there to hit a streaking open receiver in stride.

Definitely one of the areas he's still got room to grow in. I know they wanted him to put more air under the ball on those deep throws, but when Watson has 5 yards, just get it there.  You do give the WRers a chance if you underthrow it, you're more likely to have your guy catch it, he's gotta fight back through the DBs, and could be a DPI, but you're leaving points on the table. 

That 58-yard completion was one of his worst throws that game. 

2 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

He was late on a BUNCH of throws early. Even back to the Chicago game.  It didn't click with me at first that he was late.  He was throwing to receivers that had someone directly behind them.  So the defensive player simply reached around and knocked down or wrapped up the arms so the ball was incomplete. 

I don't believe that was as big of a problem as the fact that we were just seeing a lot of zone and our guys were covered up(they weren't making great reads on simple option routes or sitting down on drags, etc). 

But whatever the case may be, the one thing we all wanted to see this year was improvement and development out of Love and ultimately to see if he could be "the guy," for us. I'm not positive we've got the 2nd answer, but we're definitely seeing the first aspect of that play out. I think we're REAL close to being sold on the 2nd half, but that's not something we can definitively know until we see better defenses(this week is a good test). 

[LouisEly]

None of the Packers remaining opponents have a winning record.  Viqueens are 6-6.  There is a very real chance that they run the table and finish 11-6, very good chance they go at least 4-1 and finish 10-7.

[HarveysWBs]

13 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

None of the Packers remaining opponents have a winning record.  Viqueens are 6-6.  There is a very real chance that they run the table and finish 11-6, very good chance they go at least 4-1 and finish 10-7.

It is pretty wild to say this considering where this team was just a month ago, but ten wins should really be the floor.

Having said that, they are so young that two or three losses would disappoint, but not shock me.  They’ve demonstrated they can hang with just about anyone, but also that they can look bad against just about anyone, too.

Making a snap prediction, I’ll say 10-7 is the finish, but we drop the Monday nighter next week in New York in a classic letdown game, then run the table from there.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I don't think you can set any expectations with a roster so young that's still learning how to do what they're supposed to do individually on the field, let alone learn how to play together, plus dealing with a bunch of key players out with injury - but it's exciting to see things start to come together.  Particularly on offense, you can see more variety/imagination with playcalling as players seem to actually be running the correct routes or keeping their blocking assignments.  It's just exciting having this team in early December having a playoff spot firmly in their hands if things go well, and giving this roster the chance to experience that sort of pressure as part of the learning process against what looks like a favorable schedule.

The play I was most impressed with was actually one that resulted in an incomplete pass late in the game - that misdirection screen pass where all the other receivers flooded the right side of the field at the snap and it left Kraft + 1 blocker on the left side of the field - if the timing was just a bit better and the KC defender wasn't instantly glued to Kraft to give Walker a chance to at least get in front of him, that would've been a a walk-in TD from 15 yards out.

[GAME05]

Does this game mean Joe Barry gets to keep his job next year?

[Underachiever]

What a great win. Thrilled with the development of Love. I was irritated last night with the narrative of the two qbs. The second TD pass to Watson was a great catch, but if it had been Mahomes, Collinsworth would have said, "Mahomes put it in the only place the receiver could have caught it." It was a great pass by Love. MVS had a crossing route where he had to fall backwards and sit down to catch the ball, and instead of saying it was a bad pass, Collinsworth indeed said Mahomes put it where only MVS could catch it. The shovel pass? It would have hit the running back in the ear hole, but it wasn't a bad pass according to Collinsworth, just a great play by the GB Dlineman. The seam route with MVS where Mahomes threw inside, and MVS went outside? MVS' fault. 

And the comparison of Favre/Rodgers/Love throwing with feet off the ground was such a reach.

And if they can do a frame by frame replay of the Pacheco fumble/non-fumble to overturn the call on the field, can't they at least look at the bs late hit call on Mahomes? Just a terrible call. Thought I was watching an NBA game. 

[CheezWizHed]

12 minutes ago, Underachiever said:

What a great win. Thrilled with the development of Love. I was irritated last night with the narrative of the two qbs. The second TD pass to Watson was a great catch, but if it had been Mahomes, Collinsworth would have said, "Mahomes put it in the only place the receiver could have caught it." It was a great pass by Love. MVS had a crossing route where he had to fall backwards and sit down to catch the ball, and instead of saying it was a bad pass, Collinsworth indeed said Mahomes put it where only MVS could catch it. The shovel pass? It would have hit the running back in the ear hole, but it wasn't a bad pass according to Collinsworth, just a great play by the GB Dlineman. The seam route with MVS where Mahomes threw inside, and MVS went outside? MVS' fault. 

And the comparison of Favre/Rodgers/Love throwing with feet off the ground was such a reach.

And if they can do a frame by frame replay of the Pacheco fumble/non-fumble to overturn the call on the field, can't they at least look at the bs late hit call on Mahomes? Just a terrible call. Thought I was watching an NBA game. 

Collinsworth has been anti-Packers for a long time (though softened later in Rodger's career).  But to be fair, he did spend a bit of time on Love's deep pass to Doubs and the high TD pass to Watson - praising Love for both.

And yes, it was MVS's fault for running inside the numbers.  

[BrewerFan]

5 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

Collinsworth has been anti-Packers for a long time (though softened later in Rodger's career).  But to be fair, he did spend a bit of time on Love's deep pass to Doubs and the high TD pass to Watson - praising Love for both.

And yes, it was MVS's fault for running inside the numbers.  

And the throw to MVS where he threw it behind him and low WAS perfect placement. It was zone and there was a safety(Owens IIRC) who came up and was right there as the ball got there.

I also thought the comparison he made to Rodgers and Favre was the ability to get the ball out quickly and he was in general pretty effusive in his praise for Love, said the Packers would make the playoffs and the late hit isn't reviewable, he disagreed with it and the DPI late in the game on MVS was blatant and he pointed that out.

I thought he did a pretty good job of calling a fair game last night with the caveat that the star QB gets a massive amount of praise(there are meme's of Collinsworth praising Rodgers later in his career after saying, "You won't win many games with Aaron Rodgers as your starting QB," a few snaps into the Cowboys games he came into). 

 

I think every fan base thinks the announcers hate their team and love the other team.

[CheezWizHed]

8 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

I think every fan base thinks the announcers hate their team and love the other team.

Former players (Troy Aikman, Collinsworth) do seem to have residual feelings for certain teams (pro and anti) when they first start announcing.  Seems like it takes a few years for them to mellow out (maybe after everyone they played against has retired?) and to stop talking about plays they made as players (ugh!). 

Romo seems like he is able to talk about the breakdown of plays without resorting to "On the Cowboys, we used to do this..." all the time.  Aikman was the opposite... I think he still compares players to Irvine and Emmitt. 

[HarveysWBs]

The rest of this season may be shrouded in mystery, but I’m pretty sure about one thing: Love has just earned himself an extension.  That deal is going to get done, and it’s only a question of now or in the offseason.  You aren’t moving on from a guy that did that on prime time tv opposite Patrick Mahomes.  He’s the guy for the next decade, at least, for better or worse, and I’m feeling quite a bit better than I did half a season ago.

[Fear The Chorizo]

7 minutes ago, HarveysWBs said:

The rest of this season may be shrouded in mystery, but I’m pretty sure about one thing: Love has just earned himself an extension.  That deal is going to get done, and it’s only a question of now or in the offseason.  You aren’t moving on from a guy that did that on prime time tv opposite Patrick Mahomes.  He’s the guy for the next decade, at least, for better or worse, and I’m feeling quite a bit better than I did half a season ago.

I tend to agree - but I think it makes the most sense to do an extension like that sometime in the next league year for salary cap relief purposes (i.e., be able to put as much of the cap hit onto year 1 after Rodgers' dead $$ falls off).  Plus, they'd get the rest of this season to continue evaluating his performance.

I don't know if Love is suddenly deserving of a new lifetime contract sort of extension, but something in the 4-6 year range at market rate is starting to be warranted.

[BrewerFan]

4 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

Former players (Troy Aikman, Collinsworth) do seem to have residual feelings for certain teams (pro and anti) when they first start announcing.  Seems like it takes a few years for them to mellow out (maybe after everyone they played against has retired?) and to stop talking about plays they made as players (ugh!). 

Romo seems like he is able to talk about the breakdown of plays without resorting to "On the Cowboys, we used to do this..." all the time.  Aikman was the opposite... I think he still compares players to Irvine and Emmitt. 

I don't remember when Collinsworth first started. If you said it was 1995 or 2005, I'd believe you. I remember his notoriously bad take about Aaron Rodgers("you're not gonna win a lot of games with this guy as your starting QB," vs the Cowboys when he came in). 

Aikman, I've definitely heard the "this is how we used to do it," but I don't know if that's a bad thing(or a good thing). I enjoy watching or listening to Manning talk about things like that, but that's in a much less formal setting. 

I also think some guys have their favorites because they said things on air and now they want to be proven right. Almost like Skip. Dan Orlovsky with Wentz for instance(dude still insists he's a REALLY good QB). 

I'll just qualify this by saying I don't always listen that closely during the games and I can tune them out, but I always got the impression that the Packers were one of those teams that the announcers raised(especially Rodgers/Adams) and other fan bases hated them for that. Just like the the NFCN teams with the refs. If Rodgers was the QB, they'd be saying "the refs wanted Rodgers to get the W." 

 

Setting that all aside, last night end of the game, there were 3 controversial calls and the guys in the booth, plus the referee all had the same opinion. They were emphatic about the unsportsmanlike conduct on the Mahomes hit being a bad call. The MVS play was CLEAR DPI. And then the Hail Marry, that was pretty egregious as well, but they said it's rare you call those. I think those were all certainly accurate takes. 

 

[BrewerFan]

2 hours ago, HarveysWBs said:

The rest of this season may be shrouded in mystery, but I’m pretty sure about one thing: Love has just earned himself an extension.  That deal is going to get done, and it’s only a question of now or in the offseason.  You aren’t moving on from a guy that did that on prime time tv opposite Patrick Mahomes.  He’s the guy for the next decade, at least, for better or worse, and I’m feeling quite a bit better than I did half a season ago.

LOL...yeah, I think he gets an extension. I'm not sure the fact that he beat Mahomes is going to be the driving force(may not even be that notable by the end of the year). 

I'd be shocked if they do it in-season though. There's just no reason to. You'd be rushing it. Love has a chance to run off 5 straight here(I doubt he will, but I certainly think he can run off 4 of 5 and get in). 

That AAV just continues to go up though. By the end of the year it may be around 50M....which would suck, but that's the price of having a good QB. And you can structure it so the cap hit is minimal next year, then they get clear of Bakh and Clark's deals(not that I want to be clear of Clark, I just don't think his future cap hits will be near 28M). 

 

I think the narrative on Gutekunst is also changing quite a bit. The young guys who are playing well, the late-round picks like Tom, Enagbare, Slaton, Valentine, Wicks, Carlson, Brooks, Wooden, Walker is a hit for a 7th. Still don't think he's the future LT, but at least a good swing tackle(and I think he'll end up being a really good OG).

 

Things are really coming into view now. I'd still LOVE to see the Packers go and really get aggressive, move up for Joe Alt. I'd go 1st+2 2nds for say the 6th pick+a 4th, doubt they do it, so maybe a guy like Fuaga, a mauler in the run game and an extremely high ceiling, move Tom to RT and maybe Meyers is figuring it out? I don't know, but KC brings a LOT of pressure and the Packers just looked SO much better last night picking it up. Rhyan got whipped vs Jones, but everyone does at times. 

 

FUTURE'S LOOKING BRIGHT!

And that Van Ness kid doesn't look like a slouch either. 

[HarveysWBs]

1 hour ago, BrewerFan said:

 I'd be shocked if they do it in-season though. There's just no reason to. You'd be rushing it. Love has a chance to run off 5 straight here(I doubt he will, but I certainly think he can run off 4 of 5 and get in). 

That AAV just continues to go up though. By the end of the year it may be around 50M....which would suck, but that's the price of having a good QB. And you can structure it so the cap hit is minimal next year, then they get clear of Bakh and Clark's deals(not that I want to be clear of Clark, I just don't think his future cap hits will be near 28M). 

It turns out you are correct about the extension.  I read on APC that the Packers couldn’t extend him now even if they wanted to, so I looked it up in the CBA—sure enough, if you received a contract extension you can’t negotiate a new one until 12 months have passed under the current contract.  So offseason it is.

That being said, I’m happy for Love that he’s probably about to get the bag, and that the team seems to have a franchise QB, but that cap figure ballooning for Love is going to make it that much harder to build around him.  It would have been interesting to have kept his extension AAV under the Daniel Jones mark, but that ship has probably sailed.  Certainly good for Love, but tougher for roster construction.  That’s life in the NFL.  Russ Ball needs to do his thing.

[BrewerFan]

4 hours ago, HarveysWBs said:

It turns out you are correct about the extension.  I read on APC that the Packers couldn’t extend him now even if they wanted to, so I looked it up in the CBA—sure enough, if you received a contract extension you can’t negotiate a new one until 12 months have passed under the current contract.  So offseason it is.

That being said, I’m happy for Love that he’s probably about to get the bag, and that the team seems to have a franchise QB, but that cap figure ballooning for Love is going to make it that much harder to build around him.  It would have been interesting to have kept his extension AAV under the Daniel Jones mark, but that ship has probably sailed.  Certainly good for Love, but tougher for roster construction.  That’s life in the NFL.  Russ Ball needs to do his thing.

I did not know that...so I was only correct on accident😂

I guess it probably doesn't come up very often. I think they'll be fine with their roster construction. They're dropping a LOT of dead cap in '24 and or inflated salaries like Clark(who they may want to extend, but not at ~28M AAV).

Dougas, Savage and Bakh already account for ~32M in dead cap. 

I'd assume Jones will take a pay cut from his 11M base, but he's still got ~12M in dead cap hit(6 or 7 in void years for '25).
Nixon has ~2.6M in dead cap after this year.

Preston Smith is probably next up. He's still a very good player and it's only a minimal savings next year, but moving off it is probably a good idea. Depending on the draft, Campbell may be another guy you want to move off despite not saving a lot.

In both cases, you'd probably only do it if you could get a draft pick back. Otherwise, you're saving ~3M and paying them 12-13M to not play, but there's some incentive for teams to trade for them as each has low base salaries. 

But I think we're pretty close to being flush with cap space again...and that should line up juuust with Tom and the young guys that'll need to be paid. Ideally, you'll need to pay a whole lot of them. 

Whatever they do with the cap, whoever they sign(I'd like one Christian Wilkins in FA and one Joe Alt in the draft...and I'll get neither)...the Packer's future has gotten a whole lot brighter in just one month! 

[CheezWizHed]

22 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

I don't remember when Collinsworth first started. If you said it was 1995 or 2005, I'd believe you. I remember his notoriously bad take about Aaron Rodgers("you're not gonna win a lot of games with this guy as your starting QB," vs the Cowboys when he came in). 

Aikman, I've definitely heard the "this is how we used to do it," but I don't know if that's a bad thing(or a good thing). I enjoy watching or listening to Manning talk about things like that, but that's in a much less formal setting. 

I also think some guys have their favorites because they said things on air and now they want to be proven right. Almost like Skip. Dan Orlovsky with Wentz for instance(dude still insists he's a REALLY good QB). 

I'll just qualify this by saying I don't always listen that closely during the games and I can tune them out, but I always got the impression that the Packers were one of those teams that the announcers raised(especially Rodgers/Adams) and other fan bases hated them for that. Just like the the NFCN teams with the refs. If Rodgers was the QB, they'd be saying "the refs wanted Rodgers to get the W." 

 

Setting that all aside, last night end of the game, there were 3 controversial calls and the guys in the booth, plus the referee all had the same opinion. They were emphatic about the unsportsmanlike conduct on the Mahomes hit being a bad call. The MVS play was CLEAR DPI. And then the Hail Marry, that was pretty egregious as well, but they said it's rare you call those. I think those were all certainly accurate takes. 

 

Yes, CC was very anti-Rodgers at first... then became very Pro-Rodgers (even that made me a little sick). I think he has really improved over time.  

Aikman would go into detail about him and his former teammates... especially if one of them was still out there playing.  He'd go into detail about minutia of how Emmitt, or Irvine, or a guard would play the game, watch film, eat breakfast, whatever... It was torture if Aikman was calling a Jason Witten game. It felt like he was confused between calling the game in front of him and the memories running in his head.  He finally seemed to break that habit... probably because all his former players are done now. 

Greg Olsen struggled with that the first year.  He has improved greatly also.  I don't recall Romo being so bad at it.  I mean, I get it... You play so long it is your main experience.  But no one else really cares about the Cowboys winning days of the 90s when you are watching Packers vs. NO in the 2010s...

I think the announcers did well last night, though I would call the Hail Mary "egregious".  Kelce was clearly off balance, but it didn't look like much contact caused that to happen.  Owens had his hands out, but didn't extend them in a shove. 

[HarryDoyle]

Jaire has already been ruled out for tomorrow night's game. I think it's safe to say he's done for the year and possibly as a Packer. He's content just to collect a paycheck.

[OldHeidelberg]

5 hours ago, HarryDoyle said:

Jaire has already been ruled out for tomorrow night's game. I think it's safe to say he's done for the year and possibly as a Packer. He's content just to collect a paycheck.

I wonder if the nfl finally stepped in and told the Packers to stop pretending he has a chance to play every week. 

[HarryDoyle]

22 minutes ago, OldHeidelberg said:

I wonder if the nfl finally stepped in and told the Packers to stop pretending he has a chance to play every week. 

That's the thing. I have no doubt he can play but just doesn't want to. He said the other day he won't until he's 100%. If everyone held themselves out until they were 100%, there would be no games played, seeing as how backup quarterbacks are the only players 100% at this point of the season.

[Fear The Chorizo]

8 hours ago, HarryDoyle said:

Jaire has already been ruled out for tomorrow night's game. I think it's safe to say he's done for the year and possibly as a Packer. He's content just to collect a paycheck.

It'd still be a pretty big dead cap hit next year...but a trade could happen.  He played the full 16 games last season right after inking that extension.  Hoping he can get himself right, because he is a difference maker when he's on the field - but for whatever reason, it seem like Jaire is perpetually injured this season.

I think this is yet another shining example of the Packers keeping a guy that they likely knew was going to be out multiple weeks on the active roster instead of IR-ing him and allowing the team to bring in more secondary depth while he was injured.

[MrTPlush]

Mahomes might have solidified himself as the #1 QB crybaby and diva in the NFL. Man is literally whining and mad the refs called the WR offsides on that TD at the end of the game. Said they should have swallowed the whistle and let them play. Even had the audacity to say it was bad for the entire NFL and fans to make that call

Dude acting like his wife and should probably just take a break from talking for a few days.