Keston Hiura has a .984 OPS in Nashville

[Brewcrew82]

19 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

I am comparing Adames/Hiura order in the lineup and place in this organization. It can be compared, and it is opposite ends of the spectrum (a two game sit bumped Adames down a bit).

And DH does not play a position. 
And Luke Voit does not have an OPS over 1.00. It’s .925 at AAA in 27 ABs. And this is after he had a shot on Brewers this season……74 PA and .548 OPS 

Again, if you're going to compare Adames and Hiura, then you definitely have to add defense to the equation. Adames' place in the organization and lineup is relatively secure right now because he plays GG-caliber defense at the most important position in the infield and he has a longer, more stable track record with the bat than Hiura. 

I already acknowledged your DH argument. It's a tall task to add a DH-only player to the roster, given CC's preference to rotate players at DH (Yelich, Contreras, etc.), and especially when Tellez is due activated in the coming days. 

And Luke Voit does, in fact, have an OPS over 1.000 in AAA. (1.035 in 156 2023 AAA ABs). Why posting Hiura's statline every time he has a good game (while conveniently ignoring his statline since he came back from injury) doesn't help your argument. 

[rickh150]

4 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Again, if you're going to compare Adames and Hiura, then you definitely have to add defense to the equation. Adames' place in the organization and lineup is relatively secure right now because he plays GG-caliber defense at the most important position in the infield and he has a longer, more stable track record with the bat than Hiura. 

I already acknowledged your DH argument. It's a tall task to add a DH-only player to the roster, given CC's preference to rotate players at DH (Yelich, Contreras, etc.), and especially when Tellez is due activated in the coming days. 

And Luke Voit does, in fact, have an OPS over 1.000 in AAA. (1.035 in 156 2023 AAA ABs). Why posting Hiura's statline every time he has a good game (while conveniently ignoring his statline since he came back from injury) doesn't help your argument. 

Voit’s stats with the Mets AAA? I posted the Nashville stats.
He exercised an out a week so he could test FA.

And this is a Hiura thread… the poor guy cannot even get his own stats mentioned in his own thread. Gotta give Luke Voit his time in a Hiura thread. Par for the course with Hiura, though. Seems about right.

[rickh150]

And yes, Hiura still deserves an opportunity to play bad with the Brewers this season and still have his stats looked at as an upgrade. 

[Brewcrew82]

9 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

Voit’s stats with the Mets AAA? I posted the Nashville stats.
He exercised an out a week so he could test FA.

And this is a Hiura thread… the poor guy cannot even get his own stats mentioned in his own thread. Gotta give Luke Voit his time in a Hiura thread. Par for the course with Hiura, though. Seems about right.

So, Voit's entire AAA stats this year don't matter, but we can choose specific games with Hiura and ignore, for example, his post-injury performance? Interesting...

And Voit is relevant considering it shows how AAA stats mean very little, and that continuously highlighting them doesn't really help your argument as much as you think it does. 

Serious question: are you related to Keston Hiura? 

[rickh150]

Voit’s all year stats are not relevant to the Brewers. To him they are of course… but not to me or Brewers. He obviously thinks he is playing well enough for a promotion.

The whole AAA stats don’t matter thing isn’t true. They matter, but to a lesser extent. Teams gauge these numbers and at bats for what they are worth. Struggling players do not get the calls up that thriving players get.

I am all for giving deserving players shots and Hiura deserves it based on MLB 2022, Nashville 2023, and our train reck at DH specifically and to a lesser extent injuries/poor performance at 1B.. Others point out various other reasons he deserves a shot… switched stance, lower K rate, etc.  Just let him be the 20th player to hit in the DH spot this year. 

[BrewerFan]

14 hours ago, rickh150 said:

Start with sitting him, like they are almost unbelievably doing. In the Journal,Adames said he expected to play yesterday, by the way.

Hit him down in the lineup like they should have done last year, This is not a .800 OPS guy anymore.

So what? Adames plays every day. Why WOULDN'T he expect to play?

I don't understand your point.

And he's not an .800 OPS guy anymore? Meaning...those days are gone or are you simply looking at his stat line and reading it off to me? I fully expect him to return to an ~800 OPS.

But moving him down in the lineup? That's why you've singled in on Adames in nearly every post about Hiura?  Seems like you're expending an awful lot of energy wanting Adames to hit...6th rather than 4th.

He's had a bad year. He's also had a .232 BABIP, so he's hit into bad luck. But this is just a weird detour from the actual topic.

[Brewcrew82]

1 hour ago, rickh150 said:

Voit’s all year stats are not relevant to the Brewers. To him they are of course… but not to me or Brewers. He obviously thinks he is playing well enough for a promotion.

The whole AAA stats don’t matter thing isn’t true. They matter, but to a lesser extent. Teams gauge these numbers and at bats for what they are worth. Struggling players do not get the calls up that thriving players get.

I am all for giving deserving players shots and Hiura deserves it based on MLB 2022, Nashville 2023, and our train reck at DH specifically and to a lesser extent injuries/poor performance at 1B.. Others point out various other reasons he deserves a shot… switched stance, lower K rate, etc.  Just let him be the 20th player to hit in the DH spot this year. 

And I pointed out the reasons to you why Rowdy Tellez is going to get that shot over Hiura.

And why Hiura hasn't been called up, yet. 

If Winker was still DHing, you would have a point, but he's not anymore. 

[BrewerFan]

14 hours ago, rickh150 said:

1. Adames is used to being king of the clubhouse and play everyday. This has to be hard on him. He has gotten the benefit of the doubt for a long time at the top of the order. He should range between #6-9.

2.Toro was actually on fire at Nashville and his overall #s were very good here. Play him until he doesn’t do well. Aren’t we desperately looking for MLB production and not just belief in who we THINK is a hitter and who isn’t. Play the production. KIsS… keep it simple, stupid (just a saying, not offensive, please).

3. Not cherry picking… my listed guys at MLB level for last three years have not improved at MLB level with prolonged coaching. These are the guys we have had as hitters for last few years.  Glad they did better in year 2021 when given some regular at bats, but it has been slide City since. Yelich and Hiura give me hope, however.

OPS 2021/2022/2023

Adames .818/.756/.662

Tellez 814/.767/.672

Taylor .778/729/.523

Urias slumped to the minors and was traded. 
 

 

 

 

 

1-"King of the Clubhouse?" That comes off as snide...and I doubt you meant it as any sort of compliment, but Willy Adames is pretty much universally respected in the clubhouse, he's the energy behind the team and the players and coaches all seem to love him. 

Adames, again, has been at the heart of nearly every Hiura post you've made...and I don't get it. What's the relation? It really seems strange. Like it's personal. He's struggled this year. Got it. He's also got a BB/K rate that's on par with past production(if not better) and he has a .232 BABIP. So he should probably be hitting ~.240/.330 with power. But dropping him down 2 spots in the lineup...it feels like you want this to be punitive. To put him in his place? Who should be hitting where? How big of a difference are we talking about for the amount of energy you've put into making Hiura about Adames?

 

2-HE'S PLAYED 31 INNINGS. 20 ABs. It's ridiculous...

3-Ok, so the Brewers got Adames and Tellez and they got them to both VASTLY improve off their production at that time, but it's the organizations fault they're struggling this year but NOT to their credit when they improve?

Same with Yelich. No credit for him exploding into an MVP caliber player, ONLY blame for him not performing well in '20 and '21...but then again, still not responsible for him bouncing back last year and much Moreso this year. 

 

Yeah, that's pretty much the definition of cherry picking.

[Robocaller]

I really don't see the point in arguing what to do with Hiura until the offseason.

[TURBO]

This thread has gotten beyond ridiculous.

It's out of our control, and no amount of Hiura bashing or Hiura love will change anything.

I do find it sad that so many are piling on the kid though.  He's still a Brewer, so I wish him the best, and hope beyond hope he gets another chance, but it doesn't look good.

[brewers888]

The bottom line is its inexcusable that the Brewers haven't given Hiura a shot at being the everyday DH especially when you consider we have gotten pitcher like production out of the position.

[CheeseheadInQC]

25 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

The bottom line is its inexcusable that the Brewers haven't given Hiura a shot at being the everyday DH especially when you consider we have gotten pitcher like production out of the position.

Is it? It seems like Hiura’s season gives him more reason to rail against the fates than the Brewers organization. Right about the time he might have been considered for a call up, he gets hurt. Then he comes back and scuffles out of the gate. Then when he rights the ship, there is a guy hitting better, with more positional versatility, and already on the 40-man. You can argue about whether the Brewers gave Winker too long of a leash, but the fact is, Hiura was unlikely to be the beneficiary even if they did cut bait earlier.

[edfunderburk]

I maintain that I would promote Toro before I would add Hiura

 

[umphrey]

Hiura is going to be playing in our minors well into his 30s, isn't he

[Jopal78]

1 hour ago, brewers888 said:

The bottom line is it’s inexcusable that the Brewers haven't given Hiura a shot at being the everyday DH especially when you consider we have gotten pitcher like production out of the position.

… or they gave him more than 1000 PAs on playoff contending teams to show them something and he failed, so they moved on.

The only thing I really dispute in this whole thread is the implication that Hiura’s performance in ‘23 matters in getting another shot with the Brewers.
 

The team moved on, and let every other team in the league have a chance to claim him. Hiura could hit .400 in AAA I don’t think it makes getting another shot in Milwaukee more likely at this point. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Hopefully one of our DH bats hits enough over the next couple weeks to render this thread moot. It probably wouldn't take much. 

[brewers888]

3 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

… or they gave him more than 1000 PAs on playoff contending teams to show them something and he failed, so they moved on.

The only thing I really dispute in this whole thread is the implication that Hiura’s performance in ‘23 matters in getting another shot with the Brewers.
 

The team moved on, and let every other team in the league have a chance to claim him. Hiura could hit .400 in AAA I don’t think it makes getting another shot in Milwaukee more likely at this point. 

Hiura was the second or third best hitter on last years team and this team has given opportunities to a washed up Winker and even a career minor leaguer in Singleton without giving Keston even a look. If we werew getting even mediocre production out of the DH slot this thread wouldn't be 15 pages long.

Is Keston Hiura a flawed player; yes absolutely but he has a real power bat in a lineup screaming for some pop and as one of our better bats last season despite the strikeouts he has earned a shot of at least a few weeks to see if he can help a lineup that quite frankly could use a huge boost.

[brewers888]

Just now, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

Hopefully one of our DH bats hits enough over the next couple weeks to render this thread moot. It probably wouldn't take much. 

Its August 10th and the DH spot in the lineup has been atrociuos so calling for Hiura makes all the sense in the world.

[sveumrules]

2 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

 and even a career minor leaguer in Singleton without giving Keston even a look. 

Hiura was hurt when Singleton got the call.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

7 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

Its August 10th and the DH spot in the lineup has been atrociuos so calling for Hiura makes all the sense in the world.

I'm not arguing that there isn't any sense to the idea. I'm not a Hiura fan by any means, but when he's hot, the kid does swing a decent power bat. The problem is those hot points have been few and very far between the last several years. I think if it was going to happen this year for Hiura and the Brewers, it would have already. The ship has probably sailed. Hence my hope that one of the DH bats finds something soon to make the argument irrelevant. 

[Brewcrew82]

16 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

Hiura was the second or third best hitter on last years team and this team has given opportunities to a washed up Winker and even a career minor leaguer in Singleton without giving Keston even a look. If we werew getting even mediocre production out of the DH slot this thread wouldn't be 15 pages long.

Is Keston Hiura a flawed player; yes absolutely but he has a real power bat in a lineup screaming for some pop and as one of our better bats last season despite the strikeouts he has earned a shot of at least a few weeks to see if he can help a lineup that quite frankly could use a huge boost.

Not only was Hiura hurt when Singleton was called up, but Winker was of course going to get more opportunities than Hiura when we traded for him in the offseason and he was an above average to elite hitter every single season of his career until this year. Whereas Hiura's track record since his rookie season was much more spotty, to the point where the Brewers had little option but to remove him from the 40 man after an atrocious ST. 

 

[Brewcrew82]

Seeing as we missed the postseason anyways, one thing I will say is I wish the Brewers had given Hiura more at-bats in September last year, as his cumulative season numbers almost certainly would have gone further into the tubes and we wouldn't be having this conversation. 

[TURBO]

10 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Seeing as we missed the postseason anyways, one thing I will say is I wish the Brewers had given Hiura more at-bats in September last year, as his cumulative season numbers almost certainly would have gone further into the tubes and we wouldn't be having this conversation. 

Wow.  I think you have taken this conversation to a new low, which I wasn't sure was possible.

You have no way of knowing that.  

[Brewcrew82]

1 hour ago, TURBO said:

Wow.  I think you have taken this conversation to a new low, which I wasn't sure was possible.

You have no way of knowing that.  

Kind of do, though... (or at least have a pretty good idea)

42% K Rate, .334 wOBA vs. .317 xwOBA, 28 wRC+ from 9/1-10/4 (w/ 45% K rate). 

This conversation reached a "low" a long time ago. And I really don't see the problem, considering a certain poster has long whined about Hiura not getting enough at-bats at the end of the season last year compared to McCutchen, or Adames, etc. 

I swear some of y'all are related to Keston or something. I don't dislike the guy myself and he's provided us some memorable moments, but he is what he is at this point. 

[RobertCrawley]

3 hours ago, brewers888 said:

The bottom line is its inexcusable that the Brewers haven't given Hiura a shot at being the everyday DH especially when you consider we have gotten pitcher like production out of the position.

Hiura has been given every opportunity in the past to perform at the major league level, and he just didn't get it done. I'm pretty sure he's out of minor league options. His fielding has always been a source of concern. 

Is he right for the team right now? I'm not convinced.