Sell high on Wiemer at the deadline

[Scooterfletcher]

After Mitchell’s end of 2022 and based on Frelick last year and Chourio top standing, every poster would have put Wiemer fourth of those four going into the year.   What about dangling him at the deadline instead of top prospects ?

[ClosetBrewerFan]

Why?  Who would play CF?

[Brewcrew82]

[Jopal78]

Wiemer earns his pay check with his play in CF, any thing he can add at the plate is a bonus. Even at the dish he’s a good week away from being league average offensively.

Unlike Turang, he looks like a young rookie who might pan out into a good starter. 

[CheezWizHed]

53 minutes ago, Scooterfletcher said:

After Mitchell’s end of 2022 and based on Frelick last year and Chourio top standing, every poster would have put Wiemer fourth of those four going into the year.   What about dangling him at the deadline instead of top prospects ?

Every poster? Welcome to the internet. 😅

I'm very sure Wiemer isn't at his "high" point., but has well established his floor.  Especially now that he proved he can play CF well.  Hard to tell where Frelick and Chourio will end up at this point.  And Mitchell continues to have health issues. 

 

[jay87shot]

I feel like trading Weimer would be selling low. He should eventually hit over .250 and will win gold gloves in RF once Mitchell and Chourio are around in CF.  There is a 5 WAR player in there at some point.

[Jim French Stepstool]

Unless Mitchell proves he can correct the tendency to strike out 5-6 times for every time he walks, his elite speed will be largely wasted. Just get the K rate to the MLB average & he's some kinda weapon. Until then I'd actually put him 4th on the above list.

You also have to wonder if he can stay healthy.

[Jim French Stepstool]

55 minutes ago, jay87shot said:

I feel like trading Weimer would be selling low. He should eventually hit over .250 and will win gold gloves in RF once Mitchell and Chourio are around in CF.  There is a 5 WAR player in there at some point.

Thing about Wiemer, if he can make more consistent contact as he gains experience, he can beat out a heck of a lot of swinging bunts & topped grounders---balls you just barely get a bat on---that he's missing now. He's that fast. Then you factor in the power, and I'm glad he's on our side.

[Ro Mueller]

We might actually sign him to a Peralta-type extension, I think.

Wiemer received the lowest signing bonus ($150k) of our 2020 draft class.

And we’re still supposed to send him to AAA for about 13 days for service time manipulation purposes, but CC obviously insists (understandably) that Wiemer be available for these crucial July series against the Reds.

Arnold probably says a prayer every night that Wiemer avoid injury.

[Playing Catch]

8 hours ago, damuelle said:

We might actually sign him to a Peralta-type extension, I think.

Wiemer received the lowest signing bonus ($150k) of our 2020 draft class.

And we’re still supposed to send him to AAA for about 13 days for service time manipulation purposes, but CC obviously insists (understandably) that Wiemer be available for these crucial July series against the Reds.

Arnold probably says a prayer every night that Wiemer avoid injury.

This is all correct and astute.

Coming into the season, many of us probably felt that Wiemer's floor was lower than that of Mitchell and Frelick, but his ceiling is probably higher than both of them... If his now-established floor is "competent MLB starting CFer," well, he's got nowhere to go but up.

[Underachiever]

Besides, all that money I spent on t-shirts would be wasted!

[rickh150]

Wiemer is .956 OPS against lefties… 

[rickh150]

21 hours ago, damuelle said:

We might actually sign him to a Peralta-type extension, I think.

Wiemer received the lowest signing bonus ($150k) of our 2020 draft class.

And we’re still supposed to send him to AAA for about 13 days for service time manipulation purposes, but CC obviously insists (understandably) that Wiemer be available for these crucial July series against the Reds.

Arnold probably says a prayer every night that Wiemer avoid injury.

I can see Wiemer getting a Lucroy/Peralta/Ashby contract. Yep. I could see it maybe next year. 

[SomewhereInTime]

On 7/14/2023 at 8:23 PM, Scooterfletcher said:

After Mitchell’s end of 2022 and based on Frelick last year and Chourio top standing, every poster would have put Wiemer fourth of those four going into the year.   What about dangling him at the deadline instead of top prospects ?

They really should not trade any big leaguer at the deadline, especially after last year.

[liveforoctober]

What? Why? Even taking away his on field contributions ... EVERYONE has pointed to him being a glue guy in the clubhouse.

Gross.

[TURBO]

nope

[jerichoholicninja]

Are there teams knocking down the door to acquire him?

[Brock Beauchamp]

Out of curiosity @Scooterfletcher, what do you want in return for Wiemer that improves the 2023 Brewers?

[KeithStone53151]

The primary reason this won't work is we have big problems with quality outfielders right now, especially in CF. The only way this makes sense, and only if another team values him highly, would be if he was packaged with other players of value for a significant improvement in CF right now. And to be fair...that might make sense. If the White Sox really like Wiemer and we can add other quality pieces to an offer for Robert, maybe that's a fit. It's not likely we could trade Wiemer for even one really strong prospect at this point.

Wiemer is really tough to value right now, the bat can really go either way. If he takes a big step forward and is hitting close to 260 with everything else he adds, he could be a 5+ WAR player pretty easily. Or he could stay at his current 210 avg and replace Taylor as a quality 4th outfielder that starts against lefties.

[csbysam]

Per baseball savants new fielding metric, Weimer is the 2nd best overall on defense for any position and best CF. Our team is built on elite D and he’s shaping up to be a cornerstone of this foundation.

[owbc]

9 minutes ago, csbysam said:

Per baseball savants new fielding metric, Weimer is the 2nd best overall on defense for any position and best CF. Our team is built on elite D and he’s shaping up to be a cornerstone of this foundation.

This this this this this.

Weimer and Turang do not need to be good hitters. Anything above an OPS+ of 80 or 90 is gravy. We are winning games because we have elite defense at two of the most important defensive positions. 

If we need more offense, then we should find it at 1B, DH, 3B, etc. 

 

[KeithStone53151]

27 minutes ago, owbc said:

This this this this this.

Weimer and Turang do not need to be good hitters. Anything above an OPS+ of 80 or 90 is gravy. We are winning games because we have elite defense at two of the most important defensive positions. 

If we need more offense, then we should find it at 1B, DH, 3B, etc. 

 

I see the point you are making and generally agree, but lumping in Turang hurts your argument as his OPS+ is 55. His WAR backs that up a 0.3 which is on pace for maybe 0.6. Wiemer on the other hand has an OPS+ of 86(right in your range) and is trending towards ending the season around 2 WAR. That cumulative run prevention effect when you have good to elite defenders everywhere with good pitching is clearly what the Brewers are going for. 

But back to your general point, having 80ish OPS+ hitters like Turang and Wiemer providing elite defense and hitting 8-9 is fine if you have a 1b and DH hitting 3 and 4 in the order with an OPS+ in the 120-140 range. It should be cheaper/easier to add run production at those positions than at 2B and CF.

[CheezWizHed]

21 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

I see the point you are making and generally agree, but lumping in Turang hurts your argument as his OPS+ is 55. His WAR backs that up a 0.3 which is on pace for maybe 0.6. Wiemer on the other hand has an OPS+ of 86(right in your range) and is trending towards ending the season around 2 WAR. That cumulative run prevention effect when you have good to elite defenders everywhere with good pitching is clearly what the Brewers are going for. 

But back to your general point, having 80ish OPS+ hitters like Turang and Wiemer providing elite defense and hitting 8-9 is fine if you have a 1b and DH hitting 3 and 4 in the order with an OPS+ in the 120-140 range. It should be cheaper/easier to add run production at those positions than at 2B and CF.

I think the assumption is that Truong will improve to be 80/90 OPS+.  That isn't an unreasonable improvement

[owbc]

7 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

I think the assumption is that Truong will improve to be 80/90 OPS+.  That isn't an unreasonable improvement

Turang needs to hit better for sure...although, the Astros rode a similar OPS+ from Martin Maldonado through two championships. The shift ban has made 2B an incredibly valuable defensive position and that is certainly factoring into the Brewers' decision making. As KeithStone said, you have to make up the production somewhere, and the Brewers are failing to do that at 1B and DH. At least they are getting production from Catcher this year. 

 

[markedman5]

2 hours ago, owbc said:

This this this this this.

Weimer and Turang do not need to be good hitters. Anything above an OPS+ of 80 or 90 is gravy. We are winning games because we have elite defense at two of the most important defensive positions. 

If we need more offense, then we should find it at 1B, DH, 3B, etc. 

 

It’s interesting that Turang doesn’t fair as well in this new metric………he sure looks great to me.

Adames also has had a great year in the field.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/fielding-run-value