Robert Murray on Brewers and CC

[Pugger]

4 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Just ready to get it over with at this point. I know he said he wanted to explore his options, but I now get the feeling there’s real smoke to the fire here.

CC would be damaging his image in the eyes of Brewers’ fans imo. He’s ultimately free to do whatever he wants, but ditching Milwaukee for New York and leaving us without a WS like he committed to do is severely disappointing. Could potentially lead to boos if/when he comes to Milwaukee as manager of Mets.

I don't think fans will boo him if he becomes the Mets' manager.  It's not like he is dissing the Brewers or anything.  He gave it his all.  I may be in the minority but I believe it is time to move on.  He was here for 8 years and I think he got as far as he possibly could with this franchise.  A change at that position in Milwaukee might be just what this team needs.

[Sixtolezcano]

1 hour ago, wibadgers23 said:

The Mets will offer Counsell a nice chunk of money and it will be on Attanasio to match. That’s pretty much it.

It could be much more than that. What if Mark and Craig don’t see eye-to-eye with the way to build a team. You need to admit Craig will have much better chance to win a World Series in New York. Plus he will work in the media capital of baseball.

[Brewcrew82]

59 minutes ago, markedman5 said:

Melvin was under contract and the Padres were ready to move on…by all accounts he and Prellar didn’t see eye to eye…that is a totally different situation ….with CC being a free agent and still being wanted by his hometown employer.

He still could leave obviously but to read into it as a “done deal” is just your emotions leading you to your biggest fear.

 

I still think he ultimately returns to the Brewers due to his strong MKE feelings/ties and the relatively lower scale of the current manager market. But the scenario I worry about is the Mets going absolutely nuts (like $10 million+) such as they did in FA last year to where the Brewers simply can’t match. 
 

[Brewcrew82]

If I were Arnold and MA, I would bring in manager candidates simultaneously (or at the least leak some names) to send the signal to CC that the Brewers need to proceed with business and that his spot in MKE won’t be open forever. Force him into making a timely decision one way or another because right now CC holds all the leverage, and that’s not a good spot to be in.

[Underachiever]

Fire him. Now. Give him 30 minutes to pack up his office and get out. Have security walk him out of the building. Frisk him, make sure he's not taking any office supplies. "Post-it notes aren't free, Craig. Here, use this box, we saved it to store post-season victory memorabilia and Manager of the Year awards, so it's empty. The team signed a ball for you as a going away present, but we handed it to Corbin Burnes to sign and it ended up in the left-field bleachers somehow. We asked for a show of hands if you should be fired. The vote was 25-1 for firing you, only because Woody couldn't raise his hand. Your contract should have expired on September 30, since you didn't seem to manage in October anyway. We never liked you, and if you hadn't been a local boy, you would have been gone years ago. No hard feelings."

But maybe that's just me.

[Brewcrew82]

4 minutes ago, Underachiever said:

Fire him. Now. Give him 30 minutes to pack up his office and get out. Have security walk him out of the building. Frisk him, make sure he's not taking any office supplies. "Post-it notes aren't free, Craig. Here, use this box, we saved it to store post-season victory memorabilia and Manager of the Year awards, so it's empty. The team signed a ball for you as a going away present, but we handed it to Corbin Burnes to sign and it ended up in the left-field bleachers somehow. We asked for a show of hands if you should be fired. The vote was 25-1 for firing you, only because Woody couldn't raise his hand. Your contract should have expired on September 30, since you didn't seem to manage in October anyway. We never liked you, and if you hadn't been a local boy, you would have been gone years ago. No hard feelings."

But maybe that's just me.

Yeah, unless this is sarcasm, it's probably just you.

[Travisb72]

I imagine CC is gone. He knows the window is closed on this current brewers team with Woody being gone for the year and Burnes being in the last year of his contract. CC wants to win a World Series, and Mets, with their big pockets provide a better chance. 

[markedman5]

Good rundown in the Athletic from former Brewers beat writer Will Sammon 

https://theathletic.com/4999030/2023/10/25/mets-interview-craig-counsell-manager/

[nate82]

38 minutes ago, markedman5 said:

Good rundown in the Athletic from former Brewers beat writer Will Sammon 

https://theathletic.com/4999030/2023/10/25/mets-interview-craig-counsell-manager/

Yes and they added that Cleveland has also requested to interview CC.  I think you can add the Padres and Astros to the list to request for an interview.

Cleveland isn’t afraid to pay managers a top amount.  So don’t count them out to give CC a large contract.

[patrickgpe]

People are taking business way too personal. He has never said he won’t come back. You don’t release a free agent a week before his contract is up because he hasn’t made a loyalty pledge yet. Yes, he is probably gone . He has been the longest serving manager is baseball for some time and is easily the best in team history. Brewers are probably going to start rebuild, I can see why that’s not appealing. I’m ok either way. 

[wildcat2237]

Counsel is long gone. It appears he wants paid and/or wants to win and beleives the Brewers are about to start a rebuild. If the Brewers wanted to pay him $5 million+ I think they easily could have inked a deal before now. 

I am 100% fine with it, as I feel like Counsell has been checked out for a while. 

Hopefully the Brewers can get Seitzer or Vogt. 

[Brewcrew82]

14 minutes ago, patrickgpe said:

People are taking business way too personal. He has never said he won’t come back. You don’t release a free agent a week before his contract is up because he hasn’t made a loyalty pledge yet. Yes, he is probably gone . He has been the longest serving manager is baseball for some time and is easily the best in team history. Brewers are probably going to start rebuild, I can see why that’s not appealing. I’m ok either way. 

I agree CC may be gone and people are taking it too personally, but the Brewers don't really need to "rebuild" when they already have a consensus top 3 farm system in the game. In fact, they've stated they're not going to do that. If anything, you'd see more of a reload/reset with Burnes/Williams being traded for controllable prospects and MLB pieces, while they continue to be opportunistic in the FA market with the aim of competing now and in the future. 

[Brewcrew82]

Just now, wildcat2237 said:

Counsel is long gone. It appears he wants paid and/or wants to win and beleives the Brewers are about to start a rebuild. If the Brewers wanted to pay him $5 million+ I think they easily could have inked a deal before now. 

I am 100% fine with it, as I feel like Counsell has been checked out for a while. 

Hopefully the Brewers can get Seitzer or Vogt. 

Again, the Brewers do not really need to "rebuild", when they already have a top 3 farm system. 

[wildcat2237]

4 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Again, the Brewers do not really need to "rebuild", when they already have a top 3 farm system. 

I agree with you. I used the wrong word by just stating "rebuild." It really is a "re-set," "re-tool" or soft "re-build." If the Brewers traded Burnes and Williams and got the proper return, I see no reason the Brewers couldnt be a contender in 2025 under the new playoff system. 

[patrickgpe]

6 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

I agree CC may be gone and people are taking it too personally, but the Brewers don't really need to "rebuild" when they already have a consensus top 3 farm system in the game. In fact, they've stated they're not going to do that. If anything, you'd see more of a reload/reset with Burnes/Williams being traded for controllable prospects and MLB pieces, while they continue to be opportunistic in the FA market with the aim of competing now and in the future. 

Yes they do have a good farm system. But if you are trading all star arms and infielders and replacing them with prospects, it’s a rebuild. They may  have a great record next year, but their core will be different in 2024 no matter what Arnold says. 
I said before if the brewers want stadium renovations you really can’t sell all of your best players until it’s done. 

[Turnbows Barber]

If he decides to move on I wish him the best.  He did a great job as the Brewers manager, in my opinion, and despite the lack of playoff success it has been a good run.  I don't begrudge someone doing what they think is best for them.  It is a little sad, however, that if he leaves the last thing people will remember of his tenure was the decision to have Winker pinch hit twice during the playoffs.

[Underachiever]

4 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Yeah, unless this is sarcasm, it's probably just you.

For the record, sarcasm. Thought the post-it notes set the tone. It is common fan behavior to minimize the contribution of the guy who is leaving. 

[TURBO]

5 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Yeah, unless this is sarcasm, it's probably just you.

Man, what a buzzkill...

[Brewcrew82]

Just now, TURBO said:

Man, what a buzzkill...

Blue font is a feature of this site…

[TURBO]

1 minute ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Blue font is a feature of this site…

He was obviously joking.

[Brewcrew82]

32 minutes ago, TURBO said:

He was obviously joking.

There’s a reason why blue font is a feature. So there’s zero doubt.

[brettglaeser]

STOP SAYING THESE TEAM NEEDS TO REBUILD.

Rebuilding in baseball is pointless.  After RD 1, theres no difference whether you draft 5th or 25th.  Its all about scouting and development.  Plus the Brewers took a bottom 5 farm system to top 5 farm system over the course of the past 5 years WHILE they were competing.

Yes they are losing some key figures going forward but the farm system is GREAT and rebuild is not a word that is necessary.  If you have ownership calling for a rebuild, you have the wrong ownership.

[brettglaeser]

Also, i will never view Craig Counsell the same way if he leaves.  The "good run" excuse and "time for a change" is an excuse.  A good leader doesnt let things get stale and things are not stale in MKE.  Dont tell us for the past 9 years how much this place means to you, and how much the logo means to you, and how you were born a Brewer, and how you are one of us (Brewer fans), and how this isnt just a bandwagon you jumped on - if you are going to leave for a place that makes it all easier.

Hes another 5-10 years and 1 World Series away from being one of the most iconic Brewers of all time (# retired, statue, etc.).  For him to throw all of that away is just disgusting.  He would go from being a Brewer legend to a villain.   I think hes leaving and Im disgusted by it.

 

If it ends up being about money and Mark doesnt match the offer, I wont be as mad at Craig.  However, Mark is not cheap.  There are economic constraints in baseball but not when it comes to a manager.  Dom Cotroneo has mentioned on 620 that hes had off the record conversations with Arnold and Mark who both have hinted at money will not be an issue.  I trust Mark.  Ill flip my script on him if he doesnt pay him but I dont think this is about money.  I think its about Craig chasing a world series.  Him leaving is not only a personal choice.  He would be telling the players/fan base of his "favorite team" that he doesnt believe he can win a world series here.  Thats a terrible message.

[TURBO]

Ok, so about that rebuild...

😉

[brewers888]

1 hour ago, brettglaeser said:

Also, i will never view Craig Counsell the same way if he leaves.  The "good run" excuse and "time for a change" is an excuse.  A good leader doesnt let things get stale and things are not stale in MKE.  Dont tell us for the past 9 years how much this place means to you, and how much the logo means to you, and how you were born a Brewer, and how you are one of us (Brewer fans), and how this isnt just a bandwagon you jumped on - if you are going to leave for a place that makes it all easier.

Hes another 5-10 years and 1 World Series away from being one of the most iconic Brewers of all time (# retired, statue, etc.).  For him to throw all of that away is just disgusting.  He would go from being a Brewer legend to a villain.   I think hes leaving and Im disgusted by it.

 

If it ends up being about money and Mark doesnt match the offer, I wont be as mad at Craig.  However, Mark is not cheap.  There are economic constraints in baseball but not when it comes to a manager.  Dom Cotroneo has mentioned on 620 that hes had off the record conversations with Arnold and Mark who both have hinted at money will not be an issue.  I trust Mark.  Ill flip my script on him if he doesnt pay him but I dont think this is about money.  I think its about Craig chasing a world series.  Him leaving is not only a personal choice.  He would be telling the players/fan base of his "favorite team" that he doesnt believe he can win a world series here.  Thats a terrible message.

This is exactly how I feel and why it would hurt so much if he left.