2024-25 Milwaukee Bucks thread

[Joseph Zarr]

The post-Beal Era hits keep coming:

 

[CheezWizHed]

Ignoring how we would acquire him... would you take Jimmy Butler on this current Buck's team?

Guys with his attitude normally turn me off.  When he was with the Wolves, I was always curious about the comments he made about Wiggens and KAT... but then was proved totally correct about those two (especially in their early careers).  

But I also can't ignore the guys' talent and clutch ability.  He seems to eventually sour with a team and turn cancerous, but I tend to think it wouldn't be an issue on the current Bucks.  And by the time he turns cancerous, you ship him out and enjoy the 2-3 championships he brings with Giannis and Dame. 

[nate82]

2 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

 

Ignoring how we would acquire him... would you take Jimmy Butler on this current Buck's team?

 

He wouldn’t approve a trade to Milwaukee.  I wouldn’t take him even if he would allow a trade to Milwaukee.  You would have to trade Dame and I prefer Dame over Butler.

[CheezWizHed]

14 hours ago, nate82 said:

He wouldn’t approve a trade to Milwaukee.  I wouldn’t take him even if he would allow a trade to Milwaukee.  You would have to trade Dame and I prefer Dame over Butler.

I was assuming Khris was the more likely starter to exit the team though I wasn't trying to match salaries or figure out a trade.  

I was thinking more about the player himself.  He is an intensely driven player and a clutch performer... but that often causes problems on his teams eventually.  Not sure if he could play with two other big stars on the team or not. 

I'm also not sure of his perception in the league.  Will teams be very reluctant to take him?  Could he be a cut candidate instead of a trade (probably the Buck's best chance at picking him up)? Or will the Heat have to eat salary to trade him? 

Edit - Looks like teams like Phoenix are setting up to trade for him. 

[nate82]

2 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

I was assuming Khris was the more likely starter to exit the team though I wasn't trying to match salaries or figure out a trade.  

 

I'm also not sure of his perception in the league.  Will teams be very reluctant to take him?  Could he be a cut candidate instead of a trade (probably the Buck's best chance at picking him up)? Or will the Heat have to eat salary to trade him? 

Edit - Looks like teams like Phoenix are setting up to trade for him. 

The Suns would have to trade Beal and I believe the Heat want someone back in return that they can use now and in the future.  I don't think Khris would make sense for the Heat.  Dame would still make some sense for the Heat. 

I believe the rumors are Beal + picks to the Heat for Butler.  I just don't think Butler is a fit on the Bucks as a player.  He just doesn't fit into the offense like Dame does and I think you are going backwards as I don't see the Heat wanting Khris in return.   

For the Suns it makes sense as you can just replace Beal with Butler and their offense doesn't really change all that much.  Basically Butler becomes Khris in Bud's offense which was a mismatch for Beal.  Beal can't do what Khris does but Butler can. 

[Samurai Bucky]

21 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

Ignoring how we would acquire him... would you take Jimmy Butler on this current Buck's team?

Nope.  I don't care if he plays for free.  He has character issues and that can be cancer on the team.

[wallus]

The Bucks need to get younger and faster. Butler accomplishes neither of those things.

[Joseph Zarr]

Just to quickly chime in here, it certainly 'seems' like the Bucks are being routinely mentioned as a possible LaVine destination in these broader trades. I can talk myself into finding that palatable for numerous reasons if this situation ultimately becomes reality. At least with LaVine, I see a player who is in the late Prime window and who is having an obscenely good stretch of play in the first half. He is a player who could, theoretically, give the Bucks plus play for the next couple of season - ie 'The Window' is still open. In theory, he can stay in the starting line-up with an A-Jax. In other words, I can rationalize it. 

In a perfect world, the Bucks have a healthy Middleton. We know what we have in a healthy Khash and he is very very much an integral player who has insanely good chemistry with the League's best 4/5 in Giannis. I personally have an extremely challenging time rationalizing any version of Butler (don't want a hot head in the locker room - enough with the Gary Paytons and the Anthony Masons of this NBA world in Milwaukee) and I can not rationalize acquiring a Beal in any scenario. 

Back to the perfect Bucks world secnario: In a perfect world Khris is indeed just ramping up. Bobby and Pat and a Marjon could be moved to both get under the second apron and get an athletic mobile switchable young Big and or more athletic switchable wing depth. However, at this juncture, all these rumors of Khash's name in trade rumors lends me to believe the Bucks see his days are likely numbered and are simply trying to recoup some value. To me, that's kind of the only thing that makes sense. You don't just trade a Middleton to tinker with the roster. In a vacuum he is simply too good a player and too valuable a teammate and locker room mainstay.

[Matt Breen]

23 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

Ignoring how we would acquire him... would you take Jimmy Butler on this current Buck's team?

 

Money and what the trade stuff would be - yeah, I'd take the guy. In a heartbeat. He'd bring a scary intensity to this club. I'd take the risk. Of course, it might all implode. But whatever. You only live once.

Of course, you have to be confident he can live in an ecosystem with Giannis and Dame. That might not be feasible.

[GAME05]

If the thought were "Butler will become a clubhouse cancer in two years" I can't figure the Bucks are really thinking farther out than that in the first place. If you're in a closing Championship window you may as well kick that can down the road.

I wonder what the Giannis-Khris relationship is like and if it's strong enough that letting Khris go is also giving up hope on extending Giannis further.

[Matt Breen]

I don't know that much about the NBA, so this is my arm chair thoughts.

The Bucks seem to think their current lineup doesn't have a good chance at a championship. The primary issue is Middleton is aging, injury prone and just not as good as he once was. He seems like the guy the club is aiming to replace. That leads to the question of who can you get to replace him?

Option 1, Jimmy Butler. The guy doesn't sound like he wants to be in Milwaukee, so don't worry about him. And with all of his injuries and age - you have to be worried about how long he can keep going. Butler makes $49m this year, and has a player option for $52m next year. He is honked off because the Heat wouldn't give him a max extension - which would be two years at something like $54m and $58m. 

Option 2. Bradley Beal. The dude looks like he's old - like Khris Middleton old. I guess he's healthier than Khris, but I'm worried he'll be another aging player who will get less and less effective. Perhaps I'm wrong about this. The guy is only 31, but he's missed some significant time with injuries the last 4-5 years. I mean, is he an upgrade over Middleton? Probably. But is he that much of a difference maker? I'm not so sure. Especially at his price - $50m this year, and then two more years at $53m and $57m. 

Option 3, Zach Lavine. The Bulls guard doesn't have the resume of Butler or Beal, but he's having a great year. He's getting 24 points a game, and shooting 44% from three. He makes $42m this year, and $46m next year. He has a player option for 2026/27 for $49m. He's had some injuries - but has been healthy this year - and is only 29. The Bulls like Lavine, but they are looking to rebuild. So now is the time to deal him. 

To me, focusing Lavine is the best option. It gives the club a couple of seasons to focus on winning around a powerful threesome (Giannis, Dame and Lavine). His salary is not small - but not as onerous as what Beal and Butler will make. 

What would Lavine cost? I'm assuming it will take some sort of multi-team deal to happen. But to equal out the money, the team could package Middleton and Portis ($44m). Perhaps one or both of those guys then get re-routed to Miami in a Butler deal. I'm guessing we'd have to offer more - but I don't know values very well.

The other thing the Bucks would need to do is deal Pat Connaughton - to get under the second apron (if we don't do this, we can't aggregate salaries together in a trade). They'd have to attach some asset(s) to make that happen. What those assets are - I can't say. It annoys me we gave up five 2nd round picks for Crowder a few years ago. That was just stupid. I know 2nds are that valuable, but maybe a few of those could have done the trick. 

Oh well, just ruminating. 

 

[CheezWizHed]

1 hour ago, Matt Breen said:

I don't know that much about the NBA, so this is my arm chair thoughts.

The Bucks seem to think their current lineup doesn't have a good chance at a championship. The primary issue is Middleton is aging, injury prone and just not as good as he once was. He seems like the guy the club is aiming to replace. That leads to the question of who can you get to replace him?

Option 1, Jimmy Butler. The guy doesn't sound like he wants to be in Milwaukee, so don't worry about him. And with all of his injuries and age - you have to be worried about how long he can keep going. Butler makes $49m this year, and has a player option for $52m next year. He is honked off because the Heat wouldn't give him a max extension - which would be two years at something like $54m and $58m. 

Option 2. Bradley Beal. The dude looks like he's old - like Khris Middleton old. I guess he's healthier than Khris, but I'm worried he'll be another aging player who will get less and less effective. Perhaps I'm wrong about this. The guy is only 31, but he's missed some significant time with injuries the last 4-5 years. I mean, is he an upgrade over Middleton? Probably. But is he that much of a difference maker? I'm not so sure. Especially at his price - $50m this year, and then two more years at $53m and $57m. 

Option 3, Zach Lavine. The Bulls guard doesn't have the resume of Butler or Beal, but he's having a great year. He's getting 24 points a game, and shooting 44% from three. He makes $42m this year, and $46m next year. He has a player option for 2026/27 for $49m. He's had some injuries - but has been healthy this year - and is only 29. The Bulls like Lavine, but they are looking to rebuild. So now is the time to deal him. 

To me, focusing Lavine is the best option. It gives the club a couple of seasons to focus on winning around a powerful threesome (Giannis, Dame and Lavine). His salary is not small - but not as onerous as what Beal and Butler will make. 

What would Lavine cost? I'm assuming it will take some sort of multi-team deal to happen. But to equal out the money, the team could package Middleton and Portis ($44m). Perhaps one or both of those guys then get re-routed to Miami in a Butler deal. I'm guessing we'd have to offer more - but I don't know values very well.

The other thing the Bucks would need to do is deal Pat Connaughton - to get under the second apron (if we don't do this, we can't aggregate salaries together in a trade). They'd have to attach some asset(s) to make that happen. What those assets are - I can't say. It annoys me we gave up five 2nd round picks for Crowder a few years ago. That was just stupid. I know 2nds are that valuable, but maybe a few of those could have done the trick. 

Oh well, just ruminating. 

 

It is kind of weird how the Bucks basically "bought" a 2nd round pick a few years ago (i.e. trade for cash), but yet they seem to be widely used in these types of trades too.  

[jay87shot]

I don't think Jimmy, Lavine, or Beal really do anything for this team especially if we have to give up Portis and Middleton. I would not give up that 2031 pick, this team is getting old fast and has no young assets. Today I looked at the rising stars roster and couldn't remember the last time we had someone in that game, the answer is Jabari Parker in 2016. We need to stay the course and get a younger team to support Giannis better with some money freeing up this offseason.

[sveumrules]

3 minutes ago, jay87shot said:

has no young assets

I dunno. Defense really seemed to start clicking once AJJ entered the starting lineup. Bucks 109.5 dRTG is 6th in the NBA going back to his first start on 11/07.

AJG is shooting .442 from deep and his +6.7 On/Off is second on the team behind only Giannis among guys getting regular minutes.

Rollins has made a strong case for his two way deal to be converted to a standard contract with a +8.5 On/Off in his limited minutes so far this year.

None of these guys are stars by any means, but they all look like guys capable of getting playoff minutes this year (AJJ/AJG) or somewhere down the road (RR).

[jay87shot]

21 hours ago, sveumrules said:

I dunno. Defense really seemed to start clicking once AJJ entered the starting lineup. Bucks 109.5 dRTG is 6th in the NBA going back to his first start on 11/07.

AJG is shooting .442 from deep and his +6.7 On/Off is second on the team behind only Giannis among guys getting regular minutes.

Rollins has made a strong case for his two way deal to be converted to a standard contract with a +8.5 On/Off in his limited minutes so far this year.

None of these guys are stars by any means, but they all look like guys capable of getting playoff minutes this year (AJJ/AJG) or somewhere down the road (RR).

I mean as trade pieces they don't really have any major value. I like AJ Green a lot as well but I doubt any team is going to have him valued similarly to a 1st round pick. On top of that, Green is already 25 which by nba standards really isn't young. 

Rollins, Johnson, and Smith all have decent potential as well but again value wise those guys likely don't have more value than a 2nd round pick.

My general point is that to truely improve this team we likely need to give up that 2031 1st which is scary for me. I really worry that this team is going to turn into a dumpster fire for like 10 years after Giannis leaves. 

[nate82]

Another loss to a bad team.  Yes I know it was a back to back on the road.  They still need to win that game against a bad team.

[sveumrules]

2 minutes ago, nate82 said:

Another loss to a bad team.  Yes I know it was a back to back on the road.  They still need to win that game against a bad team.

Portland started the year 8 W - 18 L, but are 10 W - 11 L over the last month plus so they have been playing more like a mediocre team than a bad one of late.

Bucks are 4 W - 4 L on the second game of a back to back so far this year. Considering they are one of the oldest teams in the NBA that is about the best one can really hope for.

Watching the game last night it was pretty clear they just ran out of gas. Missing two regular rotation players in Bobby and AJG, plus having to contend with Scott Foster on a B2B = scheduled loss.  

[nate82]

1 hour ago, sveumrules said:

Portland started the year 8 W - 18 L, but are 10 W - 11 L over the last month plus so they have been playing more like a mediocre team than a bad one of late.

This doesn’t make me feel any better about the loss.  They should still be beating these teams.  

[SeaBass]

The Bucks notoriously struggle on road trips out west. Regardless of how good they are. Not worth overreacting to.

[BrewerFan]

On 1/23/2025 at 3:20 PM, CheezWizHed said:

Ignoring how we would acquire him... would you take Jimmy Butler on this current Buck's team?

Guys with his attitude normally turn me off.  When he was with the Wolves, I was always curious about the comments he made about Wiggens and KAT... but then was proved totally correct about those two (especially in their early careers).  

But I also can't ignore the guys' talent and clutch ability.  He seems to eventually sour with a team and turn cancerous, but I tend to think it wouldn't be an issue on the current Bucks.  And by the time he turns cancerous, you ship him out and enjoy the 2-3 championships he brings with Giannis and Dame. 

Yes. In a heartbeat(ignoring how you would acquire him). 

The guy plays hard, he wants to win, he's a good defender, he doesn't need the ball all the time. He's getting older and declining, but I like his on-court personality for a team like this. 

 

[BrewerFan]

On 1/24/2025 at 1:56 PM, Joseph Zarr said:

Back to the perfect Bucks world secnario: In a perfect world Khris is indeed just ramping up. Bobby and Pat and a Marjon could be moved to both get under the second apron and get an athletic mobile switchable young Big and or more athletic switchable wing depth. However, at this juncture, all these rumors of Khash's name in trade rumors lends me to believe the Bucks see his days are likely numbered and are simply trying to recoup some value. To me, that's kind of the only thing that makes sense. You don't just trade a Middleton to tinker with the roster. In a vacuum he is simply too good a player and too valuable a teammate and locker room mainstay.

I really think the Bucks best and only realistic course to winning a title would be to not make a big move. If they can, trade Portis for a more mobile big. They don't have to score as much, just a better defender and try and work Middleton back for the playoffs like you have the last two years and hope Dame and Giannis are healthy when you get there. The whole team for that matter. Jackson, Green, Lopez. 

I think their chances of winning it are obviously pretty low this year, but Middleton has been really good the last two years in the post-season. He hasn't been the problem. I'm not as concerned with the first 82 games as the next hopefully 16-28 games. 

Rollins looks pretty good, AJJ, I still think it'd be smart to have Beauchamp playing SOME minutes so you have bodies to throw at Tatum, Green, but that doesn't seem like it'll happen. 

Making a move just to make a move doesn't make sense given all the constraints we have. The likely marginal upgrade you get from Lavine....who is an outstanding player, but who needs the ball, that doesn't seem worth it. 

If there were a Jrue type player...that'd be great, but...obviously there isn't.

 

Whatever we do, we can't possible make the worst trade of the season unless we trade Giannis for an older, injury prone player who doesn't make us better. 

 

[Matt Breen]

Fox, Luca, and Lavine are on the move. Assuming Lavine is in his final landing place for 2025, that really leaves Jimmy Butler and Bradley Beal as the last big players rumored to be on the market. 

This is my guess on how things play out.

1. The Bucks don't want Beal. He's not that much of an upgrade, and is wildly expensive the next two years. The team is better to just hope Middleton rounds into form. 

2. Butler to the Suns doesn't happen due to Beal not wanting to go to a bad team and/or cold weather team. He might accept Milwaukee - but as stated in #1 - he doesn't make the Bucks that much better of a team (if at all better).

3. That leaves Butler in a quandary. So the Bucks say, "Hey, Jimmy, we know you are not thrilled by Milwaukee. But come on up here, let's see how it goes for the rest of the season. It's just a few months. If you don't like it, we'll find a sign-and-trade deal for you this summer."

Butler brings a ton of intensity, defense and a huge chip on his shoulder to the club. Opens up door for a championship run. He can then re-up, and we keep it up for a couple of more years. Or he can ask for a sign and trade. 

4, Okay, how does this happen? Butler to Milwaukee. Portis, Middleton and our 2031 #1 pick to Miami. You then need another team to take Pat C and his $9m salary (gets us under the 2nd tax apron - otherwise we can't combine salaries - meaning Middleton and Portis - to get Butler). Example would be Pat C, Marjon Beauchamp, and a 2nd rounder for a minimum wage guy. If that's not enough - get Miami to throw in a 2nd rounder to facilitate the deal. 

I'm guessing there would be some small salary guys tossed in on both sides - but you get the idea.

5. Why would Milwaukee do this? As noted, Butler is truly a guy who would elevate the team. It is, however, a huge risk. Who knows if Butler would work will with Giannis and Dame. And then there's the health issue. Butler is no spring chicken.

So why take the risk? And why give up yet another first round pick? Because the current lineup looks lacking. And Horst doesn't really care about 2031. He cares about the next three seasons or so - while Giannis is in full superstar mode. If the club stands pat or makes only a weak upgrade - and then falters again early in the playoffs - his job is on the line. The guy wants to keep working. He wants to be successful now. He doesn't care about five years from now. That makes a guy willing to take big risks. Butler is that risk. Of course, if Butler doesn't want to be here - so be it. You can't force him - and you look elsewhere. But I'm betting Horst and company make a play for Butler in the coming days as he represents a true path to making the team better for the rest of the year - and maybe beyond.

[jay87shot]

I really don't see anything all that enticing on the market, I like John Collins but the fit is rough and he isn't a big improvement over Bobby. I doubt we could find a way to get someone like Brandon Ingram and that being only the rest of this year would seriously reduce the price I'd pay. Ayton or Robert Williams could be nice younger centers and Jeremi Grant is having a down year but could be an interesting add. The Wizards have Poole, Brogdon, and Kuzma who could be appealing, however the Blazers and Wiz would likely want 1st rounders and I don't think I would give up that 2031 pick for any of those guys. Here are some thoughts.

Bobby Portis to Detriot for Malik Beasley and a future 1st (top 20 protected). This gets us under the 2nd apron (I believe) and another competent shooter familar to the team. The Pistons get a tough big to pair with Duran and Stewart.

We get DeAndre Ayton the Lakers get Brook Lopez and Pat C (pick from Portland/Bucks?) Portland gets Reeves, Rui, Marjon

We get younger at the 5, the Lakers get a perfect fit for Luka and LeBron, Portland gets the younger wings in Reeves and Rui (probably would need to trade on of Simons, Scoot, or Sharpe)

We get John Collins the Thunder get Middleton and the Jazz get Lu Dort, and Aaron Wiggins 

We get a 3rd big to go with Giannis and Ayton (Giannis plays some more 3 and more 5), the Thunder get a scoring boost from a vet that complements SGA and Jalen Williams (Chet and Hartenstien), the Jazz get 2 younger wings for Collins.

Obviously, this is way to much and would likely upset Giannis but it would add some youth while maintaining shooting and overall depth.

[nate82]

The Bucks have to get under the 2nd apron or their 2032 pick becomes frozen meaning they can’t trade it.  If they stay above the 2nd apron for two more season it will become the 30th pick regardless what their record is for that season.  So if the Bucks have the worst record in the league in 2032 they will pick 30th if they don’t get under the 2nd apron soon.  That Connaughton contract is killing this team just an absolutely awful and dumb contract.

[LouisEly]

7 hours ago, nate82 said:

The Bucks have to get under the 2nd apron or their 2032 pick becomes frozen meaning they can’t trade it.  If they stay above the 2nd apron for two more season it will become the 30th pick regardless what their record is for that season.  So if the Bucks have the worst record in the league in 2032 they will pick 30th if they don’t get under the 2nd apron soon.  That Connaughton contract is killing this team just an absolutely awful and dumb contract.

Lopez is a UFA after the season.   Spotrac has the Bucks at $25M under the 2nd apron and $14M under the 1st apron next season.