Rule 5 to CWS - Shane Smith Discussion Thread

[tmwiese55]

Sure, but going bald that early isn't common and it is a side effect.  And not all PED guys look like Canseco, heck almost none of the modern guys do because its not straight up steroids only that are banned now.

But put it all together for Pujols though and I know which way I'm guessing.  Unheralded unknown goes to Dominican or other country for winter ball. Comes back to spring training as a different player ripping the cover off the ball and is huge. Going bald at like age 23. Was around Mcguire. Larussa was his manager.  Past trainer says he was a PED guy, etc.   I know which side I'd have my money on. 

And to note, I'm not a PED basher, I think they've gone too far in banning too much and vilifying those who did.  I just don't like the hypocrisies.  Things like Pudge, Ortiz flying right into the Hall, Andy Petite getting steam to be in, etc.  And when folks like Bonds are made out to be the devil and Pujols is not even though its very likely he was in on it too.    All in all, its a summary of why the 'caught' ones should probably be given some slack, chances are, and proven by that anonymous test/list, that so many were doing it so the 'caught' ones aren't some evil outliers. It was just the game at the time.   

Back to the real topic and every start this kid has being analyzed.

[wiguy94]

2 minutes ago, tmwiese55 said:

Sure, put it all together for Pujols though and I know which way I'm guessing.  Unheralded unknown goes to Dominican or other country for winter ball. Comes back to spring training as a different player ripping the cover off the ball and is huge. Going bald at like age 23. Was around Mcguire. Larussa was his manager.  Past trainer says he was a PED guy, etc.   I know which side I'd have my money on. 

And to note, I'm not a PED basher, I think they've gone too far in banning too much and vilifying those who did.  I just don't like the hypocrisies.  Things like Pudge, Ortiz flying right into the Hall, Andy Petite getting steam to be in, etc.  And when folks like Bonds are made out to be the devil and Pujols is not even though its very likely he was in on it too.    All in all, its a summary of why the 'caught' ones should probably be given some slack, chances are, and proven by that anonymous test/list, that so many were doing it so the 'caught' ones aren't some evil outliers. It was just the game at the time. 

Heyman posted a weird list within the last week or so and shortly deleted it but a lot of people suspect that it was a list of people who took PED and there were so many players. Geoff Jenkins was on the list. Like all the good players from the early 2000's Cubs were on the list.

[Brian]

Young Joe Biden on the juice. LOL

[Jim Goulart]

Maybe we need a different thread --

[ghostdrew]

Maybe lets see how the season goes before we start the Shane smith is an All-Star talk 

[sveumrules]

12 minutes ago, ghostdrew said:

Maybe lets see how the season goes before we start the Shane smith is an All-Star talk 

Their best position player is currently Matt Thaiss with a 132 wRC+ and 0.5 WAR in 48 PAs. In 771 PAs entering the season he had an 83 wRC+ and -0.4 WAR.

On the pitching side Smith (22.1 IP of 2.82 ERA | 3.88 FIP) leads all White Sox hurlers in both rWAR (0.7) and fWAR (0.4).

Martin Perez (20.0 IP of 3.15 ERA | 3.68 FIP) is just behind him at 0.4 rWAR and 0.3 fWAR but he is likely out for the year with a flexor strain.

Isn't looking like Shane will have too much competition for the White Sox lone All Star spot if he can stay healthy.

[ghostdrew]

Lets compare chad Patrick to the golden boy Shane smith 

[sveumrules]

7 minutes ago, ghostdrew said:

Lets compare chad Patrick to the golden boy Shane smith 

Smith (22.1 IP | 0.7 rWAR | 0.4 fWAR)
16.7 K% | 8.9 BB% | 0.40 HR9
.167 AVG | 0.94 WHIP | 76.3 LOB%
42.9 GB% | 2.82 ERA | 3.88 FIP  

Patrick (21.1 IP | 1.0 rWAR | 0.4 fWAR)
23.0 K% | 10.3 BB% | 1.27 HR9
.244 AVG | 1.31 WHIP | 96.6 LOB%
29.3 GB% | 2.11 ERA | 4.24 FIP

Patrick has the edge in K% and ERA, though the latter is largely due to a comically unsustainable 96.6 LOB%. Mariano Rivera had a 80.4 LOB% for reference.

Smith induces way more grounders while limiting base runners and giving up homers at considerably lower rates. His LOB% is more in line with league average (72.4%) so he should be due for less ERA regression than Patrick is moving forward.

[TURBO]

3 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

I knew you were there, but didn't think you'd admit it....😂

Nope, that isn't me, I'm still PO'd we didn't protect him...

[ghostdrew]

47 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

Smith (22.1 IP | 0.7 rWAR | 0.4 fWAR)
16.7 K% | 8.9 BB% | 0.40 HR9
.167 AVG | 0.94 WHIP | 76.3 LOB%
42.9 GB% | 2.82 ERA | 3.88 FIP  

Patrick (21.1 IP | 1.0 rWAR | 0.4 fWAR)
23.0 K% | 10.3 BB% | 1.27 HR9
.244 AVG | 1.31 WHIP | 96.6 LOB%
29.3 GB% | 2.11 ERA | 4.24 FIP

Patrick has the edge in K% and ERA, though the latter is largely due to a comically unsustainable 96.6 LOB%. Mariano Rivera had a 80.4 LOB% for reference.

Smith induces way more grounders while limiting base runners and giving up homers at considerably lower rates. His LOB% is more in line with league average (72.4%) so he should be due for less ERA regression than Patrick is moving forward.

Thanks but that proves that I'd rather have Patrick than smith based on better defense for the brewers and the white Sox are pathetic 

[TURBO]

3 minutes ago, ghostdrew said:

Thanks but that proves that I'd rather have Patrick than smith based on better defense for the brewers and the white Sox are pathetic 

3. The Brewers didn't make a mistake, and this person will argue to the death that they are correct (even though they know they are wrong).

[sveumrules]

14 minutes ago, ghostdrew said:

Thanks but that proves that I'd rather have Patrick than smith based on better defense for the brewers and the white Sox are pathetic 

It never had to be an either/or proposition, there was room on the 40 Man for both.

[ghostdrew]

36 minutes ago, TURBO said:

3. The Brewers didn't make a mistake, and this person will argue to the death that they are correct (even though they know they are wrong).

So because I dont agree with u I'm wrong ok buddy 😂

[Outlander]

I agree that it wasn't an either/or with Patrick and Smith but would be interesting to hear the thought process on why they Patrick and not Smith and how close they were to adding him.

[docduany]

Smith pitched another dandy against the Twins today. 5 IP, 0 R, 7 K, 1 BB

 

[Jim Goulart]

Oh man am I going to get blasted here for this one -

 

[wiguy94]

3 minutes ago, Jim Goulart said:

Oh man am I going to get blasted here for this one -

 

Honestly who cares. Are you going to post after every single start? We get it. The Brewers messed up. This belongs in the MiLB alumni thread not constantly being posted on the main forum.

[TURBO]

Shane Smith twirled five scoreless innings with seven strikeouts as the White Sox beat the Twins 3-0 in a rain-shortened affair Thursday.

 

The game was delayed after the seventh concluded and never resumed. It’s yet another solid outing for Smith, and the fact that the White Sox were able to get him in the Rule 5 draft just adds to the impressiveness. The 25-year-old scattered four hits with one walk, and he generated 12 swings and misses over his 82 offerings. 

[Jim Goulart]

11 hours ago, wiguy94 said:

Honestly who cares. Are you going to post after every single start? We get it. The Brewers messed up. This belongs in the MiLB alumni thread not constantly being posted on the main forum.

Your insistence on clicking on a thread you clearly no longer have an interest in is puzzling. At minimum, this thread no longer resides on the Major League main forum. The purpose of the updates is to inform on one of the more intriguing "alumni" to leave the organization in years. The updates have not consistently derided the Brewers organization, though some may have read them from that perspective. Feel free to avoid the thread in its new home if you wish. Thanks for the prior insights.

[Jim Goulart]

13 hours ago, wiguy94 said:

Honestly who cares. Are you going to post after every single start? We get it. The Brewers messed up. This belongs in the MiLB alumni thread not constantly being posted on the main forum.

Of course, Smith's next start comes against the Brewers. You may have a tough time avoiding that one 😉

[TURBO]

This thread could get REALLY interesting tonight...

If he sucks hard, this thread will blow up.

If he goes 6 innings giving up no runs and big K numbers, same deal...

*popping popcorn*

[Playing Catch]

14 minutes ago, TURBO said:

This thread could get REALLY interesting tonight...

If he sucks hard, this thread will blow up.

If he goes 6 innings giving up no runs and big K numbers, same deal...

*popping popcorn*

Probably should merge it with the game thread.

[Jopal78]

5ip, 6H, 3BB, 80 pitches. Some bad defense behind Smith will keep the era sparkling, but had a WHIP against the Brewers offense of 1.80 and a K:BB ratio of  slightly better than 1:1. Smith is also the AL leader in HBP.

[TURBO]

Another good start for Smith last night. yielding two runs in five innings in a loss to the Royals.

 

Too bad only one of his starts has gotten the win, because, you know, the White Sox...

 

Smith (1-2) took the loss Monday against the Royals, allowing two runs on five hits and three walks over five innings. He struck out five.

Analysis

The Chicago right-hander looked solid again in this 91-pitch outing, as he has not conceded more than three runs in any of his six starts. The Kansas City lineup failed to square up Smith, who allowed just one extra-base hit -- a Bobby Witt RBI double in the fifth. Smith continues his sharp rookie campaign, pitching to a 2.41 ERA, 1.15 WHIP and 31:15 K:BB across 37.1 innings. The 25-year-old is currently in line to make his next start against the Marlins at home this weekend.

 

[Brewer77]

Smith’s best pitch by Stuff+ has been his changeup (101). I’d be curious to know how much the Brewers pushed him to develop that pitch or why it’s just showing up this year. Having that wider arsenal makes a big difference for someone with just okay stuff