Joey Ortiz - it’s time

[Turning2]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

I'd feel a lot more comfortable with Seigler at 2B than anywhere else on the infield. He's got five games total at 3B...and that's it. Unless Turang's still got lingering arm problems, I doubt there's any issue of him making the transition back to SS, a position he's played all his life.

Agreed 2B is the only logical place for Seigler. Wasn't advocating for him to play anywhere else. I know Turang came up as a SS. My point was driven off of comments from the broadcast recently. They said that (paraphrasing) Turang and the coaching (Lane) had developed an advanced fielding practice routine for the that targets the specific nuances of playing second base. My interpretation was that it emphasized building on the skills necessary to field at an elite level for ground ball situations unique to the position. Building muscle memory, reflexive instinct, recognition etc. Like probably many posters here, I played SS, 3B and 2B in very low level ball, and I know it's fairly easy to transition between them. But to play to an elite level, is a different matter. Turang could easily move to SS, no doubt. But they've invested a decent amount of effort to make / keep him elite at 2B. Would the tradeoff of moving him to SS in order to bring up Seigler be worth it? That's something I don't think they are ready to decide just yet. They wouldn't just flip the switch, they would have to let the cat out of the bag by giving him practice reps as SS for awhile I would think. 

[jay87shot]

I like the Turang at SS and Siegler and probably Collins some at 2nd. For a couple weeks I don't see it hurting and it would be nice for next year just to see exactly what Turang looks like at SS just for the future.

[ghostdrew]

You don't move a gold glove fielder ever 

[Matt]

Sure you can. A gold glove is just a dumb award, and usually not even given to the best defender at their position. Turang's defense would be way more valuable at SS anyway. 

[Frisbee Slider]

10 hours ago, ghostdrew said:

You don't move a gold glove fielder ever 

Gold glove winners can be subjective. It is also possible a very good defensive shortstop impacts the game more than an elite defensive 2B.

[Turning2]

My knee jerk reaction is also "you don't move a gold / platinum glove". But my opinion has changed. There can be circumstances where that becomes a blind spot in how a team can best manage its assets. If you can spend virtually at will to acquire or retain the upper crust talent, then keep your GG's at the position. But for a small market / shoestring budget team, I'm no longer married to that concept. I think it would be less preferable now in the middle of the season to shift Turang to SS, but I wouldn't be opposed to it for next season. MIL is biding its time with what they have until a prospect or three arrive in a couple of years. Nobody of the ballyhooed prospect pool is expected to make the jump next year from what I read. Durbin and Ortiz are band aids unless they start hitting. And I doubt they pick up anyone of significance in the off season for 3rd or SS to alter the current infield options. MIL is stalling until Pratt, Wilken, Adams, Bitonti, Boeve, Made etc are ready and gambling they are MLB quality talents. We have a couple of "meh" seasons to chomp threw most likely. 

[brewcrewdue80]

On 6/8/2025 at 8:04 PM, Brian said:

Also --- all you Tyler Black lovers for some reason. https://www.mlb.com/player/tyler-black-672012

 

I figured you posted because it says June 6 the Sounds have sent him on a Rehab assignment.  Can't be called up til healthy.

[LouisEly]

22 hours ago, ghostdrew said:

You don't move a gold glove fielder ever 

[ghostdrew]

34 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

Did they move him from 2nd to SS  ill wait for your response bro

[LouisEly]

5 minutes ago, ghostdrew said:

Did they move him from 2nd to SS  ill wait for your response bro

I'm still looking for the part where you said move from 2nd to SS, bro

23 hours ago, ghostdrew said:

You don't move a gold glove fielder ever 

 

[ghostdrew]

5 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

I'm still looking for the part where you said move from 2nd to SS, bro

 

Ok bro I just did reading must be hard and super cool that ur name is the same a badger hoops player must be a big fan huh

[Team Canada]

4 hours ago, ghostdrew said:

Ok bro I just did reading must be hard and super cool that ur name is the same a badger hoops player must be a big fan huh

Knock it off. And I don't understand your condescension at the fact a legitimate response was provided and then you moved the goalposts to specifically be about 2B to SS.

[ghostdrew]

11 minutes ago, Team Canada said:

Knock it off. And I don't understand your condescension at the fact a legitimate response was provided and then you moved the goalposts to specifically be about 2B to SS.

Yes sir ill make sure I clarify my statements so others can actually understand what I have to say and for the record he still never answered it k bro

[Devinep]

6 hours ago, ghostdrew said:

Yes sir ill make sure I clarify my statements so others can actually understand what I have to say and for the record he still never answered it k bro

You literally said to never move a Gold Glover, bro. Then he provided an example of moving one that worked out, bro. Then you moved the goalposts because of being proved wrong, instead of just saying “good point” bro 

[Playing Catch]

7 hours ago, ghostdrew said:

Yes sir ill make sure I clarify my statements so others can actually understand what I have to say and for the record he still never answered it k bro

The whole point of writing is that another person will understand it, bro-heim.

Also, while Robin Yount may have won a Gold Glove, did anyone think it was a bad idea to move him off short? He had 24 errors. The league leader at shortstop in 1982 had 26. Sidenote: Molitor led baseball with 32 errors at third base in 1982.

The Gold Glove, while telling, is not the end-all, be-all award for defensive acumen.

[Devinep]

If Turang wasn’t a good 2B, everyone would say he shouldn’t play SS because he couldn’t handle it. Because he is a Gold Glovf 2B, people say he should stay at 2B. By that logic, once somebody plays 2B, they could never play SS.  
 

I’m not saying to move Turang to SS, but this team needs hitting and can’t seem to find any on the left side of the infield so they should be flexible. That’s why I liked the idea of trading for Brandon Lowe this offseason, for example

[Team Canada]

8 minutes ago, Devinep said:

Because he is a Gold Glove 2B, people say he should stay at 2B

Well, for this situation it's because he was a really good SS and then moved to 2B because Adames was there. But yes, if he hadn't continued to excel at 2B there wouldn't be as much debate.

[SeaBass]

Mookie Betts has won 6 gold gloves playing in the OF and then in 2023 and 2024 the Dodgers moved him to play significant time at 2B and SS. This year the only position he's played is SS. But I guess that doesn't count because he didn't win his gold gloves at 2B? That's such a ridiculous condition to form an opinion around.

[SeaBass]

5 minutes ago, Team Canada said:

Well, for this situation it's because he was a really good SS and then moved to 2B because Adames was there. But yes, if he hadn't continued to excel at 2B there wouldn't be as much debate.

If memory serves the Brewers were strongly considering moving him to SS this year. Then in spring training he developed shoulder soreness which Murphy surmised was due to the longer throws from SS. I don't think the Brewers doubt he can be a gold glove SS they just didn't want to chance injury to an important player for them.

[Team Canada]

1 hour ago, SeaBass said:

If memory serves the Brewers were strongly considering moving him to SS this year.

Yes, that makes my point even more strongly. Without the ST arm issue he'd be at short right now, Ortiz 3rd, and Durbin 2nd.

[Playing Catch]

Ortiz has yet to shift out of 3rd gear in the big leagues.

Brock Wilken's line in June... .308/.419/.808 for an OPS of 1.227.

We're getting closer to prospect promotion time. I'm sure Wilken will get bumped to AAA soon, but will it be a short layover before getting the call?

He's not my kind of prospect, but he's certainly played well enough to warrant consideration.

I think replacing Monasterio with Wilken would be something to consider. If the Brewers can replace 2 or 3 PAs a game from the left side of our infield with Wilken, it could provide the team with just a little punch.

In terms of his development, having a part-time role may not be ideal, but there's something to be said about not having a ton of pressure to perform, either.

[bm1090]

I think Joey is going to get a lot of leash. He was playing SS for the first time at the MLB level. It took him awhile to settle in but now he’s looking comfortable. And the at bats have improved a lot. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.

[Lathund]

Ortiz had a really awful start which will bring down his overall numbers all season long. But over the last month he's been fine. Still a bit below average offensively, but playing at a 2 WAR pace basically. For the full season he's got (Prior to yesterday) a .288 xwOBA and a .233 wOBA. I know how some people react to expected stats when what they want is to be angry and rage, but it does have meaning in that his performance is better than the results. So it's fair to expect him to be more of the player he has been in the last 30 days as opposed to for the first month+. He had a sub 30 wRC+ at some point, expected stats, projections, historical stats and the eye test would all point to more like 85-90 wRC+ going forward as being more likely. Now that means it's an area that could be potentially improved upon, but it's also not "demote and replace with someone who was never as good in the minors and has shown nothing in the majors yet" territory. 

 

And a note on Turang. The whole spring training shoulder fatigue being evidence he can't play SS just felt odd to me. He was a SS for years before moving to 2B due to Adames. They also don't make enough throws to really get fatigued easily. I just feel like it's something you could navigate around should the need arise, not overtaxing it in workouts, adjusting strength training etc. A strict rule of never moving a GG also makes no sense. Most of the time you might not do it, but easy to find scenarios where it would make sense, and historical precedence for it. If the roster makes more sense with Brice at SS, you move him. It probably won't, but if it does you shouldn't be locked down by dogma. 

[Brian]

This is the guy I would love to get to replace Joey Ortiz @ SS if the Brewers were really serious about overtaking the Cubs. 

https://www.mlb.com/player/xavier-edwards-669364 

[SeaBass]

14 minutes ago, Brian said:

This is the guy I would love to get to replace Joey Ortiz @ SS if the Brewers were really serious about overtaking the Cubs. 

https://www.mlb.com/player/xavier-edwards-669364 

Yes and I'm sure if the Brewers wanted to offer Jacob Misiorowski maybe they could convince the Marlins to trade him.

Or they could just wait for Jesus Made.