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Posted
2 hours ago, Lloyd330 said:

Just move Vaughn to 3B for the next month and see how it works out

Nah, we'd still have to sit him vs right handed pitchers.

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"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS
Posted
6 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

Define overpay? The two farmhands I mentioned are not amongst Milwaukee’s top echelon.  Sheesh. Thats more like a grapefruit being .99 and leaving it in the bin because it’s too expensive, because you’re only willing to spend a quarter on a grapefruit. 

This is not remotely true. Hardin is our second best SP prospect and Adamczewski might be the best pure hitting prospect the Brewers have. Adamczewski is already making Top 100 lists (he’s 76 at BA for reference) and Hardin has been getting some steam as well not in terms of Top 100 but he’d be a Top 10 prospect in the vast majority of MLB systems 

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Posted
5 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

I guess I’m tired of this. Even the prospects lists themselves are full of variance. MLB pipeline has Adamczewski at 10 and Hardin at 15 which are nearly the exact  ranks you suggested just filled by different players from whatever source you used.

I guess there are only four things to be sure of in life: 1. death, 2. Taxes 3. Any veteran player available at the deadline isn’t worth a  prospect if anyone has heard of him. 4. Because all, Brewer prospects are destined to be future major league contributors .
 

 

MLB Pipeline hasn’t done any updates since February. That list is crazy outdated at this time of the year.

Posted
8 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

Don’t know where you’re getting 97+ for Hardin, but here’s MLB’s scouting report. Their words not mine “average velocity”. 

... from how hard he has thrown the baseball... via Baseball America. 

That's where. 

Now can YOU tell me where you're getting AA and AAA are "lower levels" of the minors?

We haven't eliminated LowA(or HiA)... or the roookie leagues, DSL yet. So they seem higher up, but I'll google it!
 

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Posted
4 hours ago, wiguy94 said:

This is not remotely true. Hardin is our second best SP prospect and Adamczewski might be the best pure hitting prospect the Brewers have. Adamczewski is already making Top 100 lists (he’s 76 at BA for reference) and Hardin has been getting some steam as well not in terms of Top 100 but he’d be a Top 10 prospect in the vast majority of MLB systems 

Luis Urias, Greg Jones and Luis Matos were top 100 prospects too. What’s that mean? Further, a year ago folks were up in arms because the Brewers left Shane Smith unprotected. 

Prospect rankings are nothing more than click bait lists of players who might be good or might not be good. If someone at MLB.com or baseball America or any other website could actually prognosticate who wil succeed in the majors they’d be working for a team and not writing for a fan site. 

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Posted
9 hours ago, Lloyd330 said:

Just move Vaughn to 3B for the next month and see how it works out

He's not a good fielder at 1B... I do not want to see him at 3B for a month. 

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Posted

Was reading the MLBTR top 35 trade candidates and Chapman and Nolan Gorman are the only 3Bs on the list. Chapman isn’t going to happen (expensive) and Gorman was demoted to AAA due to poor performance (not to mention plays for a division rival). Sad. 

I tried to log in on my iPad. Turns out it was an etch-a-sketch and I don't own an iPad. Also, I'm out of vodka.
Posted
1 minute ago, BrewLongma34 said:

Chapman is garbage. His price tag alone but his game has been declining rapidly.  

Yup, he is no bueno...  The days when he was a difference maker are long gone.

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS
Posted
On 6/25/2026 at 6:27 PM, Jopal78 said:

Luis Urias, Greg Jones and Luis Matos were top 100 prospects too. What’s that mean? Further, a year ago folks were up in arms because the Brewers left Shane Smith unprotected. 

Of course the hit rate for Top 100 prospects is less than 100%, that means if a team can better identify, acquire, and develop those players (plus the myriad players who never get recognized on those lists) they will probably have a pretty serious leg up on their competition.

Since Matt Arnold took over in 2023, the Brewers have gotten an MLB best 69.3 WAR from position players in their Age 28 and under seasons (second place is the Cubs down at 55.3 WAR). Some of the Brewers individual category rankings on that leaderboard are...

15,530 PA (6th) | 1,961 R (1st) | +113.3 DEF (1st) | 9.4 BB% (2nd) | 45.1 GB% (t-2nd) | 469 SB (3rd) | +36.5 BsR (3rd) | .326 OBP (4th) | .303 BABIP (6th) | 101 wRC+ (13th) | .140 ISO (28th)

The Brewers have also demonstrated they can identify, acquire, and develop these young players via different means as well with guys like Contreras & Adames acquired via trade as MLB players with some degree of success but also some lingering questions. Then there are Chourio, Turang, Frelick, and Mitchell (and now Pratt) who have been homegrown. Guys like Ortiz & Durbin were acquired in maligned star player trades, Perkins & Collins were acquired for essentially free, Vaughn was a change of scenery candidate & though he doesn't meet the Age 28 cutoff Bauers is another recent success story.

The pitchers in their Age 28 and under seasons haven't been quite as good going back to Arnold taking over in 2023, their 48.5 rWAR is only second (behind CLE with 60.6 rWAR). Some of the Brewers individual category rankings on that leaderboard are...

2827 IP (11th) | 85 ERA- (1st) | 112 K+ (1st) | 92 AVG+ (1st) | 106 LOB+ (1st) | +22.58 RE24 (1st) | +23.13 WPA (3rd) | 3.85 xERA (3rd) | 94 WHIP+ (4th) | 94 FIP- (4th)

In addition to having an MLB roster rife with young talent, the Brewers have a farm system that is generally regarded as among the best in MLB currently. What all that tells me, is that whatever the leaguewide hit rate is for prospects (Top 100 or otherwise), the Brewers are more or less setting the top end of the curve. 

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Posted
9 hours ago, sveumrules said:

Of course the hit rate for Top 100 prospects is less than 100%, that means if a team can better identify, acquire, and develop those players (plus the myriad players who never get recognized on those lists) they will probably have a pretty serious leg up on their competition.

Since Matt Arnold took over in 2023, the Brewers have gotten an MLB best 69.3 WAR from position players in their Age 28 and under seasons (second place is the Cubs down at 55.3 WAR). Some of the Brewers individual category rankings on that leaderboard are...

15,530 PA (6th) | 1,961 R (1st) | +113.3 DEF (1st) | 9.4 BB% (2nd) | 45.1 GB% (t-2nd) | 469 SB (3rd) | +36.5 BsR (3rd) | .326 OBP (4th) | .303 BABIP (6th) | 101 wRC+ (13th) | .140 ISO (28th)

The Brewers have also demonstrated they can identify, acquire, and develop these young players via different means as well with guys like Contreras & Adames acquired via trade as MLB players with some degree of success but also some lingering questions. Then there are Chourio, Turang, Frelick, and Mitchell (and now Pratt) who have been homegrown. Guys like Ortiz & Durbin were acquired in maligned star player trades, Perkins & Collins were acquired for essentially free, Vaughn was a change of scenery candidate & though he doesn't meet the Age 28 cutoff Bauers is another recent success story.

The pitchers in their Age 28 and under seasons haven't been quite as good going back to Arnold taking over in 2023, their 48.5 rWAR is only second (behind CLE with 60.6 rWAR). Some of the Brewers individual category rankings on that leaderboard are...

2827 IP (11th) | 85 ERA- (1st) | 112 K+ (1st) | 92 AVG+ (1st) | 106 LOB+ (1st) | +22.58 RE24 (1st) | +23.13 WPA (3rd) | 3.85 xERA (3rd) | 94 WHIP+ (4th) | 94 FIP- (4th)

In addition to having an MLB roster rife with young talent, the Brewers have a farm system that is generally regarded as among the best in MLB currently. What all that tells me, is that whatever the leaguewide hit rate is for prospects (Top 100 or otherwise), the Brewers are more or less setting the top end of the curve. 

Jake Bauers is actually the counter example to your argument. Former Top 100 prospect, Milwaukee is his sixth organization, and he has a career WAR of 0.3 in nearly 700 games. (Also an example why using metrics as a measurement of player quality can be misleading).

I do not understand the relevance to your argument that Brewers hitters 28 and under have a certain WAR since 2023. The Brewers don’t sign veteran free agents, so of course their roster is going to be younger. Ohtani, Betts and Freeman  are all over 30 have close to 69 WAR combined since 2023 not counting the rest of the Dodgers. 
 

I don’t believe there is an objective way to conclude the Brewers are better than most teams at identifying and developing amateur talent. With the price of free agent talent today, developing their own talent is more essential for them to remain competitive than it is for the Dodgers, Padres, Mets, Cubs, Braves, etc. Their results may be more visible because they’re not going to fill holes with veterans on multi year deals. 

Circling back to Top 100 prospect/top prospect ranking lists. Take a look at some from 7-10 years ago. There’s always a few players usually near the top who became key contributors in the majors, also there will be  a significant chunk of the players on any given list who never did a thing in the major leagues, and the majority of players on those lists are guys like Jake Bauers. Toolsy players who never became difference makers and bounced around the league as useful players. Which is  to say I’m not suggesting an “F them picks” mentality like the NFL’s 49ers, but rather the notion of treating minor league players as untouchable commodities simply  because their name appeared somewhere on a prospect list, is misguided. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Jopal78 said:

Jake Bauers is actually the counter example to your argument. Former Top 100 prospect, Milwaukee is his sixth organization, and he has a career WAR of 0.3 in nearly 700 games. (Also an example why using metrics as a measurement of player quality can be misleading).

I do not understand the relevance to your argument that Brewers hitters 28 and under have a certain WAR since 2023. The Brewers don’t sign veteran free agents, so of course their roster is going to be younger. Ohtani, Betts and Freeman  are all over 30 have close to 69 WAR combined since 2023 too. 
 

I don’t believe there is an objective way to conclude the Brewers are better than most teams at identifying and developing amateur talent. With the price of free agent talent today, developing their own talent is more essential for them to remain competitive than it is for the Dodgers, Padres, Mets, Cubs, Braves, etc. Their results may be more visible because they’re not going to fill holes with veterans on multi year deals. 

Circling back to Top 100 prospect/top prospect ranking lists. Take a look at some from 7-10 years ago. There’s always a few players usually near the top who became key contributors in the majors, also there will be  a significant chunk of the players on any given list who never did a thing in the major leagues, and the majority of players on those lists are guys like Jake Bauers. Toolsy players who never became difference makers and bounced around the league as useful players. Which is  to say I’m not suggesting an “F them picks” mentality like the NFL’s 49ers, but rather the notion of treating minor league players as untouchable commodities simply  because their name appeared somewhere on a prospect list, is misguided. 

*Rams

But I think you are actually validating the case against the position you are trying to hold. BECAUSE so many top prospects don't pan out and BECAUSE the Brewers rely on youth in larger capacities than most teams - We need as much of it as possible so the aggregate is positive. When most of them inevitably don't work out... We have the remaining few who do to contribute. 

If it is true that we are not any better at identifying amateur talent as you suggest (yet we need it more than other teams) doesn't it stand to reason we need as much amateur talent as possible?

If we start trading away the better prospects we have and then the guys that we bet on don't pan out .. there is nothing left.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Jopal78 said:

do not understand the relevance to your argument that Brewers hitters 28 and under have a certain WAR since 2023. The Brewers don’t sign veteran free agents, so of course their roster is going to be younger.

Right, but they aren't 1st in PA and 1st in IP, they are 6th and 11th, so they aren't putting up their WAR totals on quantity of opportunity alone.

From 2017-22 when the Brewers won at least 86 games every full season their Age 28 and under position players were 15th in WAR (& 26th in PA) while their Age 28 and under pitchers were 2nd in rWAR (& 15th in IP).

The 2024-present Age 28 and under position players put up more WAR in 403 team games than the 2017-22 Age 28 and under position players did over 871 team games.

That's a pretty objective measure of how much the Brewers have improved at identifying, acquiring and developing young hitting talent recently compared to earlier iterations (while the pitching has been humming along for a decade now).

With the current Brewers showing a demonstrated ability to hit with more frequency on their evaluations of young players, the overall historical miss rate on prospects from 7 to 10 years ago is less relevant to them than it is to other franchises who haven't been able to get those same kind of top end results.

 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Jopal78 said:

I don’t believe there is an objective way to conclude the Brewers are better than most teams at identifying and developing amateur talent.

Not specific to amateur talent, but they won the most games in MLB last season. Is that not objective enough?

The Brewers could beat the Yankees in Game 7 of the World Series, and Jopal would be back on here the next day talking about how much better that 1990 Reds team was because they won the Series in a sweep.

Look. The Brewers are really, really good. Kinda at everything. Objectively good. Subjectively good. They are all the kinds of good a baseball team can be good. And they ARE BETTER THAN MOST TEAMS AT NEARLY EVERYTHING right now. And it shows up with wins and losses.

Anyone saying otherwise has an agenda.

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Posted

My main issue with Paredes is one that was brought up earlier, which is about where he hits his HRs. The raw HR numbers do look appealing. Then look at his splits. Career .764 OPS. In Houston it's .822, in Tampa it's .864, and those account for about 36% of his PAs. And that's not a coincidence. As a HR hitter he is about as extreme as you can possibly get. There are pull hitters, then there are extreme pull hitters, and then there is Paredes. He has 102 career homers. ALL of them are to left, or left-center. He doesn't have much power at all, he can only hit one out when he pulls it. Houston, with the Crawford boxes, has one of the shortest LF in baseball. Tropicana Field also had a short porch. Which is why it was such a head scratcher when the Cubs acquired him. There might not be any other hitter in baseball whose value depends so much on a certain aspect of field dimensions as Paredes. 

So with that in mind, when looking to trade for him, it makes no sense to pay as if he was a .764 OPS type hitter. Only makes sense if it's at a discount. And why would the Astros do that? To them it's the opposite, he's worth more to them than to just about any other team, and should drive a hard bargain. It's just a very difficult deal to find common ground on. 

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Posted
4 hours ago, sveumrules said:

Right, but they aren't 1st in PA and 1st in IP, they are 6th and 11th, so they aren't putting up their WAR totals on quantity of opportunity alone.

From 2017-22 when the Brewers won at least 86 games every full season their Age 28 and under position players were 15th in WAR (& 26th in PA) while their Age 28 and under pitchers were 2nd in rWAR (& 15th in IP).

The 2024-present Age 28 and under position players put up more WAR in 403 team games than the 2017-22 Age 28 and under position players did over 871 team games.

That's a pretty objective measure of how much the Brewers have improved at identifying, acquiring and developing young hitting talent recently compared to earlier iterations (while the pitching has been humming along for a decade now).

With the current Brewers showing a demonstrated ability to hit with more frequency on their evaluations of young players, the overall historical miss rate on prospects from 7 to 10 years ago is less relevant to them than it is to other franchises who haven't been able to get those same kind of top end results.

 

Your argument assumes what it is trying to prove. You’re treating WAR as an objective measurement of player evaluation and development, then concluding because the Brewers young players have accumulated more WAR the organization must have become better at identifying and developing talent. Using WAR as the evidence and your conclusion doesn’t demonstrate a superiority to hit on prospects, it simply demonstrates the model credits those specific players with more value. 
 

Importantly, it mistakes outcomes for a process. A season and a half of results from players 28 and under tells us little if the Brewers have fundamentally improved in evaluation and development compared to the other successful organizations in MLb or other eras. Plus, you’re only counting players who made it to the majors and produced. You’re ignoring poor drafts, prospects who failed, trades and international signings that didn’t work out. Trout has a 90 WAR since 2011.  The Brewers might not have 3 players together that produced 90 WAR since 2011. Does that mean the Angels were better at evaluating and developing talent? Of course not.
 

A better measure would be how consistently the Brewers graduated “prospects” over many years, or generated surplus value in trades and drafts.


I think we’d find the ratio of Brewers organizational players on the “prospect lists” who made it to the majors and produced would clearly be better than the Angels, Rockies and Twins but likely would similar to the other successful organizations. 

Posted
8 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

I think we’d find the ratio of Brewers organizational players on the “prospect lists” who made it to the majors and produced would clearly be better than the Angels, Rockies and Twins but likely would similar to the other successful organizations. 

Nobody's stopping you from doing the very same thing Sveum does and looking into this.

 

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Posted

I'm all for trading from MKE's deep farm system to upgrade the roster.  I started a thread on which top prospects people would be willing to part with.  My first sentence in that thread was that you have to give up quality to get quality.  I'm willing to give up top prospects.

I just don't place as much value on Paredes.  He's not a great defender, and bad defenders force pitchers to throw more pitches.  More pitches = more bad pitches thrown = more big hits and runs given up.  More pitches also = more wear on pitcher's arms, fewer innings covered, and the last thing the Brewers need is fewer innings covered by their pitchers.

It all depends on what teams are going to be selling in late July.  We don't know that yet.  Some teams that were out of it a month ago are back into it.  So, it doesn't really pay to speculate on that for another 3 weeks or so.

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