Soccer Thread

[nate82]

32 minutes ago, patrickgpe said:

Since they are in the iron district, seems like they are going to do something like Iron, Ironmen, etc.

Call me a pessissmist, but I just don't know how well this will work. Its great that MU is getting rid of Valley Fields for their program, but I think its going to be hard to get decent attendance once everyone has seen the stadium. The Rampage, Wave, MU / UWM soccer all struggle / struggled for fans. I know this is higher level soccer and there is a niche of soccer fans around that will love this, but if they play during the summer there is so much to do. It will only take away from festivals, brewers, etc. 

The average attendance in Phoenix is about 7k.  So in Milwaukee that is probably 3-4k a game on the high end will probably be something like 1-2k a game.  

[homer]

I dunno. I think it depends on what they do around the stadium and how expensive the tickets are. Plenty of Marquette kids can walk there. 

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

Despite Qatar and the sheer absurdity and corruption (not to mention violence), I am looking forward to the World Cup. Will be interesting to see US engagement levels when the event is competing with every major domestic sport (including CBB and CFB), baseball excepted.

A few quick thoughts:

Most disappointing team: England. Could be sneaky tough for them to get out of a group much more difficult than the gut feelings would suggest. HM: Spain (because I think they have the toughest group) and France (because they are so talented, but also potentially very toxic).

Most surprising team: But for some health concerns about Mane and Davies, I'd go with Sengal or Canada. I'll say Denmark. Very cohesive team. Uruguay and Japan are up there too.

How far will the US go? Round of 16. I think they'd be underdogs against any Group A team in that game. I could see deeper if Mousah and Reyna have the breakout they're capable of.

Champion: Brazil. So deep. Feels like their turn. I'll be rooting for Argentina, though.

 

 

[UpandIn]

18 minutes ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

Despite Qatar and the sheer absurdity and corruption (not to mention violence), I am looking forward to the World Cup. Will be interesting to see US engagement levels when the event is competing with every major domestic sport (including CBB and CFB), baseball excepted.

A few quick thoughts:

Most disappointing team: England. Could be sneaky tough for them to get out of a group much more difficult than the gut feelings would suggest. HM: Spain (because I think they have the toughest group) and France (because they are so talented, but also potentially very toxic).

Most surprising team: But for some health concerns about Mane and Davies, I'd go with Sengal or Canada. I'll say Denmark. Very cohesive team. Uruguay and Japan are up there too.

How far will the US go? Round of 16. I think they'd be underdogs against any Group A team in that game. I could see deeper if Mousah and Reyna have the breakout they're capable of.

Champion: Brazil. So deep. Feels like their turn. I'll be rooting for Argentina, though.

 

 

2026 is more the window people are looking at for the US Soccer team, right?

I don't follow Soccer, but that's kinda the tone I've heard. That we had some young studs who weren't quite ready yet...or maybe they would just be in their prime in '26?

I'd actually like to follow the Soccer team a little bit, but I am wholly ignorant about the state of US Soccer OTHER than it sounds like more athletes are getting into the sport and we're investing more in the infrastructure....I guess?

 

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

This is definitely the most talented group of players I've seen (following since 1994). Their skill in midfield and out wide is impressive.

Back line and striker are pretty thin. And the back is very important at the international level.

Not getting out of the group would be VERY disappointing. But, yes, 2026 is the more realistic deep run target.

[patrickgpe]

Voting has started on Milwaukee's soccer team, i am not that invested in it, but i had a friend today post what has been revealed and I do like Goodland United. 

[Samurai Bucky]

Watched a little bit of the US in the U20 World Cup in Argentina.  They are up against New Zealand today in the round of 16.  It sounds like the US has a solid defense.  The wingers looked like they could have made some more offensive runs, but I think that would put their defensive shape at risk.  Still fun to watch.

[Brewcrew82]

4 hours ago, Samurai Bucky said:

Watched a little bit of the US in the U20 World Cup in Argentina.  They are up against New Zealand today in the round of 16.  It sounds like the US has a solid defense.  The wingers looked like they could have made some more offensive runs, but I think that would put their defensive shape at risk.  Still fun to watch.

They actually have a good shot at making a deep run with how the bracket is lined up. Could potentially be the first US men's team to ever make a final at a World Cup. Didn't concede a single goal in the group stage. And they ran roughshod over CONCACAF last summer. 

[Samurai Bucky]

A 4-0 win over New Zealand.  Nice!!!!

[Samurai Bucky]

Messi to sign with Inter Miami.  He may need to learn English...

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/37812200/hot-takes-lionel-messi-move-mls-inter-miami

[Jimbo]

Man City began their season at Lambeau and finished it as champions of Europe.

 

[Joseph Zarr]

That was a really really good performance from the USMNT vs Mexico tonight. 3-0 in that rivalry is nothing to scoff at. And, man, that game got chippy and really devolved. They are going to have an extremely challenging time finding suitable replacements for Dest and McKinney given how well they played.

[MVP2110]

I'm pretty surprised at the vitriol towards the USMNTs decision to bring back Berhalter. I'm no soccer expert so I'm sure there are tactical decisions and strategies that can be 2nd guessed, but looking at purely the results of his tenure it's hard to say he hasn't been successful. He took over in 2019 after the disaster of missing the World Cup and has had pretty good success. They won the Gold Cup in 2021, tied for their best ever performance in the World Cup Group stage and then lost to a really good Netherlands team. The US was ranked 25th when he took over and has risen to 13th passing both Germany & Mexico on the way. He has the best ever winning % for a coach is USMNT history. I know there is the whole blackmail incident with Reyna's parents, but that says more to me about them than it does him. I'm not sure what I'm missing here and why I'm seeing this hire being called terrible, a disaster, etc.

[rickh150]

10 hours ago, MVP2110 said:

I'm pretty surprised at the vitriol towards the USMNTs decision to bring back Berhalter. I'm no soccer expert so I'm sure there are tactical decisions and strategies that can be 2nd guessed, but looking at purely the results of his tenure it's hard to say he hasn't been successful. He took over in 2019 after the disaster of missing the World Cup and has had pretty good success. They won the Gold Cup in 2021, tied for their best ever performance in the World Cup Group stage and then lost to a really good Netherlands team. The US was ranked 25th when he took over and has risen to 13th passing both Germany & Mexico on the way. He has the best ever winning % for a coach is USMNT history. I know there is the whole blackmail incident with Reyna's parents, but that says more to me about them than it does him. I'm not sure what I'm missing here and why I'm seeing this hire being called terrible, a disaster, etc.

Defeating Mexico 3-0…. Away.  Unthinkable.

[Samurai Bucky]

I watched some of the ESPN studio coverage after they won the CONCACAF Nations League to see if I could figure out what was going on.  I didn't remember they were bringing Berhalter back.  It does seem that Callaghan was able to do a much better job with shape and personnel decisions.  I almost equate Callaghan with Erik Spoelstra.  Spoelstra had no NBA playing experience and, if I recall correctly, was the video guy and learned a lot of his advanced concepts by doing video analysis.  That is Callaghan's background.  I guess he still "cuts the tape."

I don't know why Berhalter had issues with Reyna during the WC.  It was best that he wasn't with the team while they sorted it out.  What that did show is how dominant the USMNT can be, although CONCACAF may be one of the weakest regions in the world.

I'm excited for the future of the USMNT.  I would like to see Callaghan still be an integral part of the staff.  I guess the Crystal Palace coach has also expressed interest in coaching the USMNT.  Hmmmmmm...

[Jimbo]

Nice recovery by the Americans last night (today) to earn the draw.  However, that result means they didn't clinch advancement and a loss to POR on Tuesday means elimination.

 

[homer]

 

 

[BrewerFan]

On 7/28/2023 at 7:09 AM, homer said:

 

 

Wow...that's wild. Maybe Giannis gets in on the professional Soccer craze and brings a team here! Mark A buys a team, Giannis loves the sport...hopefuly Jordan Love earns a payday where he can invest!

I had no idea Milwaukee was such a Soccer city. 

[Playing Catch]

I'm new to the thread, but am curious about others' curiosity/fandom of soccer.

As a kid from rural Wisconsin, with so little opportunity to experience soccer, I tended to ridicule it. But then I started playing soccer video games with my college buddies and became curious, particularly about the World Cup... How can billions of fans be so wrong?

Anyway, after many years, I now love the sport.

[madbad2000]

2 hours ago, Playing Catch said:

I'm new to the thread, but am curious about others' curiosity/fandom of soccer.

As a kid from rural Wisconsin, with so little opportunity to experience soccer, I tended to ridicule it. But then I started playing soccer video games with my college buddies and became curious, particularly about the World Cup... How can billions of fans be so wrong?

Anyway, after many years, I now love the sport.

Similar background from rural Wisconsin and not exposed to the game as much as a child.  I've given it many chances over the years after marrying into a German family, but it still hasn't grabbed my full attention.   I find the game frustrating to watch most of the time and have narrowed it down to two aspects:  off sides and lack of substitutions.  Off sides may be the worst rule in the sporting world.  It purposely slows the game down and I feel it really is there to keep the game closer and anticipation high.  This places more emphasis on getting free kicks, penalties and corners where a lucky bounce can turn the game completely ...and far too often that comes from flopping.  I'd prefer to let teams have more strategy options and let actual skill determine winners/losers. The lack of substitutions is also fairly ridiculous.  All that does is make the teams take long stretches where they have to walk/stand/half jog to conserve energy for the few runs they can actually make. 

I also dislike the argument that soccer is the most popular sport in the world, so it must make it the best.  Like so many other beliefs, it highly depends on what you're exposed to and conditioned for during your formulative years.  It would be different if every country in the world has the same exposure to every sport growing up and then the most people still chose soccer.

After all of that negative, I do see the appeal of soccer.  I would probably enjoy the game more in person where the hype and crowd could add additional sensations and excitement.  I'm open to new stuff outside of my youth and would recommend Australian Rules Football to anyone looking to learn about new sports outside of their current norms. 

[zurch1818]

I tried really hard to watch the World Cup. The lack of commercials is a definite positive. It was entertaining but I don't think I could watch it all the time. It's just a little bland for me (much like American Football where there is too much dead/commercial time). Soccer isn't a terrible sport by any means but as a fan of hockey, I also find offsides, the lack of substitutions, and the lack of shots on goal frustrating. The strategy between soccer and hockey is pretty much identical.

I also used to hate on hockey and soccer until college. Having a roommate from Minnesota, I started getting into hockey. I can remember playing the video game with him for the first time where I got destroyed like 10-1 or something close to that. Then I started learning offsides and icing and some of the strategy and I was hooked (pun not intended). The commercials aren't terrible for NHL games either...14 10 and 6 minute marks of each period (assuming there isn't a break in the action or a power play). Additional, the offsides line is static, there are on-the-fly line changes where each shift is a minute or so, and way more shots on goal.

At this point, I think I like soccer more than American Football. I would like to see soccer played with hockey rules. They could have boards to keep the ball in play and why not...checking. I think this may be indoor soccer (well without the checking) but I'm not sure.

[Playing Catch]

Offsides is the most fundamental part of soccer, IMO. Without it, the game would be completely different. I like that the defense can strategically condense the playing field with the rule (playing a high line), thus forcing offenses to adapt.

The lack of timeouts/commercials is fantastic.

Relegation leagues are awesome. I like that regular season greatness is held in a higher regard than tournament-style championships (although the Champion's League is probably challenging that assertion). 

I like that when there is a dead-ball event, the game can sometimes just start up again without all of the exactness of American sports. Same thing with 90 minutes. You just keep playing until the ref says the game is over. It's like the game just isn't taken so seriously... With this said, VAR (video assisted referee) has been horrible to this effect. Who cares if the player was an inch offside, let them play!

I don't love penalty kicks, as they seem to disproportionately penalize the offending team for certain fouls in the box. But I also don't always love the way free throws in basketball, either.

Flopping doesn't bother me at all in either basketball or soccer, but only because it's the only way to get refs to call the foul. If basketball players didn't flop, there would never be an offensive foul called, and if the most talented players in soccer didn't go down easy every now and then, they'd just keep getting kicked over and over without the ref calling the foul.

In many ways, I like soccer because it hasn't been so Americanized. It just feels different.

[madbad2000]

2 hours ago, Playing Catch said:

Offsides is the most fundamental part of soccer, IMO. Without it, the game would be completely different. I like that the defense can strategically condense the playing field with the rule (playing a high line), thus forcing offenses to adapt.

The lack of timeouts/commercials is fantastic.

Relegation leagues are awesome. I like that regular season greatness is held in a higher regard than tournament-style championships (although the Champion's League is probably challenging that assertion). 

I like that when there is a dead-ball event, the game can sometimes just start up again without all of the exactness of American sports. Same thing with 90 minutes. You just keep playing until the ref says the game is over. It's like the game just isn't taken so seriously... With this said, VAR (video assisted referee) has been horrible to this effect. Who cares if the player was an inch offside, let them play!

I don't love penalty kicks, as they seem to disproportionately penalize the offending team for certain fouls in the box. But I also don't always love the way free throws in basketball, either.

Flopping doesn't bother me at all in either basketball or soccer, but only because it's the only way to get refs to call the foul. If basketball players didn't flop, there would never be an offensive foul called, and if the most talented players in soccer didn't go down easy every now and then, they'd just keep getting kicked over and over without the ref calling the foul.

In many ways, I like soccer because it hasn't been so Americanized. It just feels different.

I agree that without offsides the game would be different, but likely not by that much if you add in more substitutions to counter the fatigue of having to run more on both sides of the ball.  The main thing it will do is open up the game strategies.  I would like to see the ability for teams to have more strategic options on both sides of the ball which could play to your strengths or to attack an opponents weakness.  That also includes strategic substitutions to take advantage of another teams fatigue.  When watching soccer, I feel like the defense has a big advantage over the offense during normal play, mainly due to offsides.  And you hint at the same where you state that the defense can control the line of the offense.  That immediately switches to a huge advantage for the offense when going to penalty kicks and closer free kicks.  This link has some interesting stats on penalty kick conversion rates with a fair number at 75% conversion rate.  That's huge when you consider the conversion rate on normal shots on goal during game play.

https://playtoday.co/blog/stats/penalty-kick-statistics/#:~:text=Editor's Choice,a conversion rate of 86.41%.

Corner kicks also seem to favor offenses for simply keeping the ball near the goal and having a chance at a random bounce or the ball finding a seam.  With the change in advantage, working to get a penalty kick/free kick nearer the goal incentivizes offenses as a legitimate strategy to flop.  I'd rather force the offense to earn a goal with ball movement, teamwork and great offensive shots.

I'm curious, do you enjoy watching a game where an outmatched team parks the bus and tries to grind out a tie?  I have no problem with defensive battles, but I'd like to see that actually come from the performance of the players and not mainly from a rule.  I honestly don't even care about having more goals. Low scoring hockey games, pitcher's duels in baseball, tough defensive games in football are all exciting to watch normally when they come from great performances.  Watching soccer games that are decided by a pentalty/free kick/corner kick is never as satisfying as watching a game that has great goals from regular action.

Flopping is a joke and if it's the only way to get a ref to call a foul, maybe you should have more refs than 1 and a couple of side judges who mainly look for offsides.  Is flopping still a thing in basketball?  The last I saw it was kind of getting called more to avoid it becoming an actual strategy.  Offensive fouls need to be called more according to the rules.  So the more important aspect is to have better refs that call the foul instead of rewarding flopping.

I don't need soccer to be Americanized to enjoy it.  I am fine with low scoring and pass, pass, pass if the game is decided by skill and both teams have a chance to use strategy/talent.  That's not happening in most games and it's a bit sad with the lost potential.

[owbc]

Soccer is like many sports where it is beautiful at the highest levels but pretty meh at the lower levels. Unfortunately, most of what is available on this continent falls into the latter category. 

I've tried to get into the MLS in Seattle but haven't been able to. The quality of play in MLS is generally poor which is disappointing because Seattle has great fans. I bet it would be better in a smaller soccer-specific stadium. The MLS also takes itself too seriously and the continuous game with no breaks means that the games are not very friendly to casual fans in my opinion. No music, no promotions, no fans on the scoreboard, etc. However, I did see a men's international game a few years ago (USA vs Equador) and that was fantastic. I was up in the nosebleeds but the precision of their positioning, passing, and ball movement was readily apparent. In a good soccer game there isn't much noodling around in the middle of the field, the elite teams can quickly generate chances. 

As madbad noted, offsides is actually a really cool rule. Most of my issue with the rules in soccer revolves around flopping, but VAR has helped with that, at least for high leverage calls that could be a penalty. 

The current iteration of USWNT falls into the "hard to watch" category for sure. Assuming they don't overcome their shortcomings, I think it will be good for everyone for them to eat some humble pie (and fire their coach). 

As a baseball fan, I crave more cricket in the US and I enjoyed following the inaugural season of MLC this summer. Many consider Twenty20 cricket to be more exciting than baseball and it certainly is at least as interesting to watch as a baseball game. In many ways it's the opposite of a baseball game -- an out in cricket is of similar difficulty to a hit in baseball. 

[Playing Catch]

22 hours ago, madbad2000 said:

I'm curious, do you enjoy watching a game where an outmatched team parks the bus and tries to grind out a tie?

In a word, no. I don't necessarily enjoy watching it. But I do enjoy that there is a strategy that lesser teams employ to combat being so outmatched. I like that soccer features David versus Goliath situations. I like the idea of these huge clubs going to play in some 5,000-seat stadium in the middle of nowhere, England, and have to decide whether or not to even play their best players, but risk bowing out of the tourney early. The fact that there are opportunities for huge upsets is fun for me. I prefer college football/basketball to NFL/NBA for the same reason.

I like that fans for most soccer clubs seem to have their own definition of what a successful result is, or a successful season looks like, which doesn't have to end in victory or a championship.

Historically, I like the limited substitutions as it puts a real emphasis on being able to run that much in 90 minutes. But there's no doubt that having more substitutions makes for a better viewing experience.

As for the USWNT, it seems clear to me that Rapinoe and, perhaps to a lesser degree, Morgan, are washed up and shouldn't get much time from here on out. I haven't seen enough of Rodman, Smith, and Thompson to have an opinion on their quality, but if they aren't better than Rapinoe and Morgan, the US isn't going to advance that far in this tournament. I don't mind that Rapinoe and Morgan are on the roster, but they shouldn't be playing much more than as late-match substitutes.