Wisconsin Football 2022- The Jim Leonhard Show ends, the Luke Fickell era begins

[UpandIn]

3 hours ago, JosephC said:

At least now I won't feel guilty about saying no when UW asks me for a donation.  ESPN is reporting that Chryst is getting an 11 million dollar payment out the University of Wisconsin Foundation.  Here is a link to the Why Give? page from the University of Wisconsin Foundation's website-

https://www.supportuw.org/why-give/

So everything on that page seems to be about maintaining a quality and affordable education system.  I wonder how paying eight figures to a football coach who isn't even going to be coaching fits into that?  So the athletic department couldn't eat this money with the 10's of millions of revenue they bring in every year?  Hopefully the faculty will raise all sorts of hell now that this news is public.

Chris McIntosh sucks.  I was very happy when he got the AD job, but I'm bitterly disappointed with him now.

Didn't the athletic Department just bail UW out of a ~20M dollar hole during Covid?

What hell would you liked raised? The whole university benefits from program and this money isn't coming from tax payers...

You're dealing with a program that's part of a conference that signed a billion dollar a year TV deal and adds a great deal to the University when it's successful. 

[UpandIn]

23 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Yeah, Nelson, Brown & to a lesser extent Tyler Beach have been frustrating to me in their lack of development. 

Considering the lack of experience I think Wedig has actually done some nice work.

If Bostad had been with this group all the way through I'd feel more optimistic about their starting to cook. Just seems to me the combination of technique & attitude is developed over time.....time he spent coaching others. Hope for the best.

It wasn't specifically aimed at Wedig...just as complaints about the poor secondary play wouldn't be aimed at Woehler(despite him...probably being the highest rated DB recruit we've gotten in a long while). 

I shouldn't have mentioned individual players, just the larger point that...this offensive line, the staple of Badgers Football, it hasn't been good in a while. He certainly hasn't been dominant. 

NOTHING else is going to work...IMO, if you can't fix that. If you can't fix the OL, you can't run the ball obviously. You then are behind the sticks and you can't pass the ball. I just laid out Illinois possessions and there were numerous possessions in which they got short fields due to turnovers...either on down or picks or whatever. A lack of offense. 2 rushing yards. Wisconsin can't win when they're not rushing for at LEAST ~125 yards and 4 YPC. 

Then...as everyone knows that impacts the defense. 3 and out, 3 and out, even without the short fields, you're going to wear down. 

 

It's always been assumed we'd have that OL to lean on...and we haven't. If you've got a good OL in Football at literally any level, you have a chance. When you don't have great skill players, you've got no chance. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

You watch Wohler last year on special teams, and you just KNEW he was going to be a mainstay at safety. Good instincts. Savvy. 

Everything you say about the OL is true. I just hope Bostad can elevate the level of play without having been with these guys for 3-4 years. The combination of technique, footwork, practice reps, all the while instilling the work ethic & the "nastiness" takes a while to ingrain. I just hope for week-to-week improvement. Riley Mahlman being able to get back on the field wouldn't hurt, either.

[UpandIn]

1 hour ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

You watch Wohler last year on special teams, and you just KNEW he was going to be a mainstay at safety. Good instincts. Savvy. 

Everything you say about the OL is true. I just hope Bostad can elevate the level of play without having been with these guys for 3-4 years. The combination of technique, footwork, practice reps, all the while instilling the work ethic & the "nastiness" takes a while to ingrain. I just hope for week-to-week improvement. Riley Mahlman being able to get back on the field wouldn't hurt, either.

They HAVE had some old Wisconsin OL working with this group. Some of the guys who exemplified the toughness you want out of a Badgers OL. Costigan who....well, he was probably too tough for his own good and should NOT have played about 6 days after having a piece of his knee taken out, but it it DOES take 3-4 years, I think they're in a lot of trouble. 

But I still do think they right this ship and they end up winning at least 5 of their next 7 and...as I said, I could see them winning the next 7. 

Engram will get full control of the offense(you'd assume) and despite the players not being happy about the firing of Chryst, hopefully they'll rally around Leonhard. 

[NeedMoreFans]

10 hours ago, JosephC said:

At least now I won't feel guilty about saying no when UW asks me for a donation.  ESPN is reporting that Chryst is getting an 11 million dollar payment out the University of Wisconsin Foundation.  Here is a link to the Why Give? page from the University of Wisconsin Foundation's website-

https://www.supportuw.org/why-give/

So everything on that page seems to be about maintaining a quality and affordable education system.  I wonder how paying eight figures to a football coach who isn't even going to be coaching fits into that?  So the athletic department couldn't eat this money with the 10's of millions of revenue they bring in every year?  Hopefully the faculty will raise all sorts of hell now that this news is public.

Chris McIntosh sucks.  I was very happy when he got the AD job, but I'm bitterly disappointed with him now.

This is misleading.  The UW Foundation handles donations to the UW Athletic Department as well as other donations to the UW, so the money is coming from the Athletic Department's funds held at the UW Foundation. This is a quote from the Wisconsin State Journal: 

The $11 million in liquidated damages to Chryst is being paid out of money in the UW athletic department's Annual Fund held at the UW Foundation, McIntosh said.

The athletic department has an account at the UW Foundation that includes scholarship endowment money and funds available for the department to use at its discretion. That account was valued at more than $143 million as of June 30, 2021.

[PeaveyFury]

Thanks for posting that to clarify, NeedMoreFans. Though I will agree with the general sentiment that it's a bad idea to pay people to not be on your staff, I think it's important to note that these are separate funds specifically held FBO the Athletic Department, not the general University's support.

[JosephC]

3 hours ago, NeedMoreFans said:

This is misleading.  The UW Foundation handles donations to the UW Athletic Department as well as other donations to the UW, so the money is coming from the Athletic Department's funds held at the UW Foundation. This is a quote from the Wisconsin State Journal: 

The $11 million in liquidated damages to Chryst is being paid out of money in the UW athletic department's Annual Fund held at the UW Foundation, McIntosh said.

The athletic department has an account at the UW Foundation that includes scholarship endowment money and funds available for the department to use at its discretion. That account was valued at more than $143 million as of June 30, 2021.

 

Saw this on madison.com this morning and came over to post it.  Glad to see that someone had already posted this updated info.

Still a big thumbs down to McIntosh.  Never liked the idea of firing a coach this early in the season.  Last year the Badgers started 1-3 and rebounded to have a nice season.  Just the general impression from watching Badger football over the last 30 years, it seems the team plays better as the year goes on more times than not.

Chryst had been the head coach here for 8 years but I don't really know how much stock one can put in the virus season considering what was going on with the roster on a week to week basis.  If you just look at the final records from Chryst's 6 full seasons, the average was a 10-3 mark.  McIntosh is setting the bar really, really high if he says this is not good enough, especially since it's not like the Badgers finished last year at 7-6 or something like that.  He can talk about championships, but I can only assume he is limiting that to Big 10 West championships because if he thinks a new coach will lead them to outrunning Ohio State, then he is off his rocker.  I mean, that has to be the expectation going forward now...10+ win seasons...correct?

That said, I do think there is some valid criticism that can be thrown at Chryst.  I don't know what has happened with recruiting, but it has definitely slipped the last few years.  Just look at the defense this year.  Is there any plus-players in that front seven other than Benton and Herbig?  Njongmeta has shown some flashes.  I think the overall talent there is not to UW standards, unless there are a couple diamond-in-the-rough that aren't playing (but should be playing).  And can you imagine what this DB group would look like without all the transfers?  And the offensive skill positions last year....can you imagine if Allen wouldn't have been an immediate hit and the Mellusi transfer (not that Mellusi is very good).  Sure, Allen definitely counts but UW could have been in a position where Brady Schipper was getting 20 carries a game if not.  Nobody in their right mind expects Wisconsin to ever match Alabama in terms of talent, but I definitely think the talent over the last couple of years has been notably sub-par by UW standards.

I also question if Chryst has gotten away from player the best player at the best spot.  If Coan wouldn't have gotten dumped, I'm pretty confident in saying he would have been a better option than Mertz last year.  I don't know how much confidence I say this with now, but I have to wonder if Burkett might be a better choice at QB going forward.  I guess time will tell on that one.  Beach was terrible at the beginning of last year, but as his foot got better, the played better and better as the year went on and by year's end was playing a pretty good LT and the OL had shown much improvement.  Now I have no issues with starting this year with Nelson at LT because the potential is there.  But when Nelson got knocked out, it sure seemed like the most logical thing to do was put Beach back at LT instead of putting Logan Brown in there, because Logan Brown just isn't very good (despite all the bogus stars). 

Well, we'll see what happens going forward.  I am very skeptical that UW will be all that much better unless they make some really major changes other than the coach (starting with the admissions department).

[homer]

Where is everyone getting that recruiting has slipped? They had one of the best recruiting classes they've ever had in 2021. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, homer said:

Where is everyone getting that recruiting has slipped? They had one of the best recruiting classes they've ever had in 2021. 

One has to be careful when assuming the recruiting has slipped. As Upandin & I have been bantering about, in many cases it's been more about development. No, you can't just take a few 325lb kids from the Milwaukee City Conference & make them into a solid line, but for 30 years now it's been about finding more or less "average" recruits who have the work ethic, desire & attitude and making them into more than the sum of the parts. That's been evident over the years in the front seven & O-line, but it wasn't relegated to that. One needs only to look at the walkons who have contributed greatly, including the new coach. 

Big picture, I'm OK with the recruiting, as far as the success rate & how the kids are rated nationally (as far as that goes). The overall development capabilities of the staff, and recognition of who the "right" kids are to fit the culture, that might be something Mac saw as an issue. And if so, that buck stops with Paul & the staff he put together.

I'll be very interested to see how this gets parsed out regarding the responsibilities of Engram & even Leonhard himself. Does Leonhard involve himself in play-calling, and to what extent? Is he still in full charge of the defense? Interesting times.

[Dmiles23]

1 hour ago, JosephC said:

If you just look at the final records from Chryst's 6 full seasons, the average was a 10-3 mark.

I understand what you're getting at, and Chryst was the head coach and is responsible for the whole team... but he's an offensive minded head coach and called the plays for most of his tenure.  What would the Badgers record be in those years had they not had a top 5-10 defense every year?  We're kind of seeing that play out now.  The Badgers offense is in shambles, and that was Chryst's main focus.  

Saturday morning before the game, I was on YouTube and a video from the 2010 game against Ohio State was in my recommended videos.  That team featured Tolzien, Toon, White, and Clay; so some good players, but not one of our stacked offensive teams.  But just in the highlighted plays, it was hard for me to believe that it was Chryst calling plays.  There just seemed to be not only more creativity, but also it seemed like players were put into positions to succeed and the offense was geared towards the skills they possessed.

And like was said, the Badgers had a 3-year span where they had some of the most highly rated recruiting classes they've ever had.  Those are the players that are seeing the field now, and they aren't producing.  UW is a developmental program, and right now there just does not seem to be much development at all, particularly on the offensive side of the ball.  I think one of Chryst's biggest downfalls was his loyalty.  He was loyal to a fault to Rudolph, who was just not a good coach, and, in my opinion, we're still seeing the effects from his tenure. 

I think Chryst is a great guy and the players loved him.  I just don't think he's suited to be a modern day college football head coach.    

[NBBrewFan]

8 hours ago, NeedMoreFans said:

The athletic department has an account at the UW Foundation that includes scholarship endowment money and funds available for the department to use at its discretion. That account was valued at more than $143 million as of June 30, 2021.

<Tangent Warning> I've done some work for friends on making donations to Universities including formal contracts with exact stipulations.  Most of the Universities I have dealt with have a standard policy that the Athletic Department is ring-fenced from the general University as far as money/budget.  The money isn't co-mingled so excess at the University does not get spent to pick up deficits in the Athletic Department and vice versa.  If you ever want to donate money to your alma mater or any University/College (even if it's $10) you have the right to ask about their policy regarding Athletic Department budgets. If they refuse to tell you then it's best to just say you changed your mind. If you ever want to make a substantial donation, please google and look for advice on making stipulations as to how the money can be spent.  If you give money without any stipulations it goes into a general fund that can be used on almost anything (most Universitites follow US & state government practices for allowable expense, but those can be vague). And there have been many reports of how general fund dollars can be abused. Some of the allowable are refreshments at happy hours hosted by an academic group, or renovations of the presidents office (MD Anderson's Cancer Center got in trouble for paying over $10M to renovate a recent directors/wifes offices).  While you might not be concerned how the University spends the money, there are people that want the money they donate to go for a specific purpose. I spoke to one attorney that helped draft a donation for a billionaire (can't name them) that was so specific that it had conditions as to what would happen to any remaining balance if specific faculty left the University. Just an FYI <Tangent Done>

[Jim French Stepstool]

5 hours ago, Dmiles23 said:

 

Saturday morning before the game, I was on YouTube and a video from the 2010 game against Ohio State was in my recommended videos.  That team featured Tolzien, Toon, White, and Clay; so some good players, but not one of our stacked offensive teams.  But just in the highlighted plays, it was hard for me to believe that it was Chryst calling plays.  There just seemed to be not only more creativity, but also it seemed like players were put into positions to succeed and the offense was geared towards the skills they possessed.

   

I was in the stands for a lot of the games when Chryst was the OC, and would remark about how often he seemed to want to throw the ball, even to a fault. I guess when a guy isn't in a position where the buck stops at his doorstep, it's easier to be more wide open, willing to take a few more risks. At the end of the day Bielema could (and from what I understand often did) reign him in at times. It's just different when you're the head coach. Maybe it shouldn't be, but I get it.

Of course a lot of those teams were humming when they had the ball, & often had great field position due to the defense. A lot more challenging so far this season.

[LouisEly]

21 hours ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

Chryst could have demanded more and gotten it per the terms of his contract. 

There were also lots of stipulations to that contract, as is standard, that likely required him to jump through a lot of hoops to get all of it (requirements on job searching, future salaries offsetting any payouts, etc.).  Look at what happened with Bielema after he got fired from Arkansas.  It also had to be paid out over several years.

What likely happened is what frequently happens in these situations, and that is UW said we will waive these stipulations and pay it out faster (IIRC by February of next year) if you agree to a lower payout.   And Chryst, from what little I know of him, likely doesn't like to deal with that type of contractual BS and took it.

[nate82]

It doesn't sound like Leipold is all that interested in leaving Kansas.  At least he says he has no plans on leaving I am not sure if that is just coach talk or what but maybe he is serious and wants to stay at Kansas.  

[patrickgpe]

6 minutes ago, nate82 said:

It doesn't sound like Leipold is all that interested in leaving Kansas.  At least he says he has no plans on leaving I am not sure if that is just coach talk or what but maybe he is serious and wants to stay at Kansas.  

He wouldn’t be the first to deny interest in season only to take the job. 

[CheezWizHed]

I saw that Leonhard became interim HC, I thought it was pretty natural transition.  But it seems that the media doesn't seem to think he is locked in to stay the HC next year.  

What do you think his odds are? 

[Jim French Stepstool]

4 hours ago, LouisEly said:

There were also lots of stipulations to that contract, as is standard, that likely required him to jump through a lot of hoops to get all of it (requirements on job searching, future salaries offsetting any payouts, etc.).  Look at what happened with Bielema after he got fired from Arkansas.  It also had to be paid out over several years.

What likely happened is what frequently happens in these situations, and that is UW said we will waive these stipulations and pay it out faster (IIRC by February of next year) if you agree to a lower payout.   And Chryst, from what little I know of him, likely doesn't like to deal with that type of contractual BS and took it.

This. All of this.

[Jim French Stepstool]

41 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

I saw that Leonhard became interim HC, I thought it was pretty natural transition.  But it seems that the media doesn't seem to think he is locked in to stay the HC next year.  

What do you think his odds are? 

93%.

 

 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

It really doesn't do either Leonhard or Leipold any service to be eager beaver about becoming the next HC. I think it is JL's job if he wants it and they show any kind positive growth. But Leipold's best course is to say he loves Kansas and watch the sacks of cash pile up at his doorstep. Same thing for Leonhard, it makes no sense to say he's UW forever, you never know if Auburn comes knocking. I don't mean that realistically, just that there isn't a lot for a coach to gain by babbling about stuff midseason.

[CheezWizHed]

2 hours ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

It really doesn't do either Leonhard or Leipold any service to be eager beaver about becoming the next HC. I think it is JL's job if he wants it and they show any kind positive growth. But Leipold's best course is to say he loves Kansas and watch the sacks of cash pile up at his doorstep. Same thing for Leonhard, it makes no sense to say he's UW forever, you never know if Auburn comes knocking. I don't mean that realistically, just that there isn't a lot for a coach to gain by babbling about stuff midseason.

Oh, I didn't mean the coach had to sign up today... I was speaking more about the media's approach.  I figured JL would be option #1, #2, AND #3.  Many articles written have him around #3 or #4.  Not that I know much about the rest of the candidates, but an up and coming DC that has interviewed for other positions and is a WI-guy... seems like a slam dunk. 

[Samurai Bucky]

On 10/4/2022 at 12:09 AM, UpandIn said:

You're dealing with a program that's part of a conference that signed a billion dollar a year TV deal and adds a great deal to the University when it's successful. 

... but it doesn't add baseball... ?

[GAME05]

Leonard isn't going to turn down a job in Green Bay and stick with Wisconsin if it didn't come with some promises made by UW that he'd be able to stick around. I get that the media wants to throw out other names to add intrigue, but Leonhard getting the permanent role seems downright obvious. The only hitch would be if he only wants to be a defensive coordinator and doesn't have an interest in head coaching, but that would be surprising.

[MrTPlush]

Leipold saying he doesn't want to leave doesn't mean much. However, the way he talked about PC averaging 9 wins a year and losing was an interesting comment. He definitely might avoid a job with unreasonable expectations that he is almost destined to fail at.

Also, I am not sure Wisconsin would necessarily outbid Kansas either. Leipold is like a holy grail to the Kansas program, I can imagine they will pay up to try and keep him. Will Wisconsin really be dying to have Leipold that bad? It isn't like PC got a lot to start and even now he is paid pretty low compared to many Big Ten coaches. Wisconsin definitely has much higher long-term potential...but you gotta be good enough for Wisconsin standards and clearly that is a high bar. 

Maybe Wisconsin is a dream job, but maybe he really just doesn't want to move again...who knows. Feels like a moot point though, I would be shocked if they give the middle finger to Leonard without a real chance. 

[LouisEly]

7 hours ago, GAME05 said:

Leonard isn't going to turn down a job in Green Bay and stick with Wisconsin if it didn't come with some promises made by UW that he'd be able to stick around. I get that the media wants to throw out other names to add intrigue, but Leonhard getting the permanent role seems downright obvious. The only hitch would be if he only wants to be a defensive coordinator and doesn't have an interest in head coaching, but that would be surprising.

The last sentence is it - it's a chance for UW to evaluate Leonhard on an interim basis, and it's a chance for Leonhard to evaluate being a HC on an interim basis.  Leonhard really is a family man and really does enjoy his life right now and, like you said, he turned down the GB DC job to stay at UW.  Leonhard is evaluating a HC position as much as UW is evaluating Leonhard.

[UpandIn]

7 hours ago, Samurai Bucky said:

... but it doesn't add baseball... ?

Yeah...that's...annoying. But it's also not really a revenue generating sport.

 

College athletics are the serfs vs the lords. Basketball, Football=Lords. Every other sport=Serfs.

And if you know of other programs that generate revenue...it's because they're unique. Like UConn Women's BB or...Iowa Wrestling or whoever. 

I know B1G ADs were upset that programs were coming in that didn't have Wrestling programs. This used to be a big deal and an actual requirement. Not they changed it so you can have 2 sports that the rest of the B1G doesn't offer, but...whatever.

Wisconsin was one of those schools. Well...stop whining if you don't even have a Baseball program.