Packers 2023 Discussion Thread

[nate82]

9 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

Again, this looked much different a week later when they couldn't convince Adams to stay. 

The Packers knew Adams wasn't coming back before this. 

[BrewerFan]

3 hours ago, nate82 said:

The Packers knew Adams wasn't coming back before this. 

I don't believe that to be the case because Aaron Rodgers didn't believe that to be the case.

The same day the Wilson traded was finalized was the day the Packers put the tag on Adams. As Rodgers said on the McAfee show, he felt there that Adams would be coming back up until they made their final offer to Adams...which again was larger than Adams, and then the deal got done very quickly. 

 

So I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that. I don't think they knew when the Russell Wilson trade was finalized on March 8th that Davante Adams was not going to be coming back.

 

Here's Rodgers who said he was in regular contact with Adams leading up to the trade and who officially signed his contract on the 17th of March.

Quote

 

It was a little surprising with Davante....ya know, when I made my decision, I was still thinking he was gonna come back...but I felt like he was gonna be back.

There's a lot of things in this business that surprise ya.

I thought based on the number we offered Davante, and being able to play with me for a few more years would definitely make a difference.

 

Rodgers signed his deal on March 17th. Rumors about his extension came out about a week earlier.

Again, per Rodgers, the deal came together quick.

 

So if the Broncos finished the trade with Wilson on March 8th, that means they likely turned down the Rodgers trade a week before that, maybe less. Adams 

I'm curious why you believe that they already knew when they turned down the Broncos trade offer that Adams wasn't coming back?

 

In fact, the details around the Rasul Douglas extension suggests more than anything that the Packers did not in fact know he was gone as they went from telling Douglas they wouldn't be able to extend him to pivoting and then extending him.

March 14th-Not expected to retain him.

March 19th-One day after Adams is traded, they sign him to a 3 year contract.

 

 

This all tells me they definitely didn't know Adams was gone when they turned down the Jeudy+1sts package for Adams. 

[nate82]

3 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

I'm curious why you believe that they already knew when they turned down the Broncos trade offer that Adams wasn't coming back?

I will have to find the article again but Adams wasn't going to sign with the Packers and he let the Packers know this early in the off season.  It was all about Rodgers not wanting to commit to more than one year that Adams didn't want to stick around.  So Rodgers had to commit to more than one year and he never did that last off season.  So it was far before this that the Packers had their answer on Adams and they knew he was gone when the Broncos trade was nixed. 

[BrewerFan]

18 minutes ago, nate82 said:

I will have to find the article again but Adams wasn't going to sign with the Packers and he let the Packers know this early in the off season.  It was all about Rodgers not wanting to commit to more than one year that Adams didn't want to stick around.  So Rodgers had to commit to more than one year and he never did that last off season.  So it was far before this that the Packers had their answer on Adams and they knew he was gone when the Broncos trade was nixed. 

Well, even if we take the standard after the fact athlete speak, if Rodgers didn't know, his closest confidant on the team, then it stands to reason the front office didn't know....which was the whole point. Of course the fact that he was still negotiating with the Packers would also suggest they didn't know he was done in GB.

But I don't buy Adams had his mind made up before the tag anymore than I believe that Adams had been plotting his exit from Green Bay to play with Derek Carr(as David Carr said) or that he believed Derek Carr was a HOF QB.

 

We all know Adams was upset he wasn't extended a year earlier. That's common. It's also common for players to openly complain and then re-sign...and you could come up with a massive list of players who'd fit into that. From Lamar to Deebo, it happens every year. 

[CheezWizHed]

On 6/18/2023 at 3:34 AM, BrewerFan said:

It doesn't appear thus far that's the direction they'll go, but remember when Linsley lost the job in back to back years, then started due to injuries to...Even Dietrich Smith IIRC.

Turned out to be the best thing that happened to them. 

As for Myers, he can get to the end level...vs slower NT or if they're shaded on his right shoulder and they're running that outsize zone the other way. But he's rarely beating DL to their spot. If you're talking about when they come out with the DTs playing a 3i, sure, he can chip and get to the next level, but I'm talking about beating his name to the spot, sealing and then going.

 

Remember, this is a guy who was projected by some as 4th-6th rounder at Center due to his limited athleticism. Put when he locks onto a guy, he's more than capable of just planting a guy.

 

Now...a big physical Center works great in...Dallas or Philly, but in a scheme where you need really athletic Centers such as our ZBS, that pick never made sense to be. Myers over Creed is like a...Sternberger over McClaurin type pick...if they were both WRers and one was the consensus #1 play at his position, scored a 10.0  RAS. There were concerns about Humphrey's ability to make calls(I think that's why he was available when he was).

 

Maybe we'll pivot a bit this year. Especially if a guy like Jones works his way in there. More iso type FB, double teams at the point and just more physical. That'd play to his strength. Or maybe as Stenovich recently said, Tom WILL compete at all 3 spots, C, RG and RT. 

 

Or maybe Myers with Jenkins on one side, maybe he'll just play better. Just looking at Tom long term though, if he's not a Center, then his future position has to be LT or RT. Otherwise it seems like a bit of a waste to stick such a great athlete at RG.

 

I hope you're right though, he just needs to play more consistently. It's not like he hasn't made some highlight level blocks. It's just a matter of how consistent he is.

I seem to remember Myers being projected in the 3rd round, maybe 4th.  Not 6th.  Being picked at the end of the 2nd wasn't much of a reach.  Picking Myers over Humphrey hurts of course...

And I agree that moving laterally seems to be a bit of a weakness for him.  Moving vertically (i.e. second level and going up field at guys) seems to be a strength for him.  He'll be slow, especially on that first step to get someone on a reach block, but once he gets going, he moves well. 

[BrewerFan]

On 6/19/2023 at 3:59 PM, CheezWizHed said:

I seem to remember Myers being projected in the 3rd round, maybe 4th.  Not 6th.  Being picked at the end of the 2nd wasn't much of a reach.  Picking Myers over Humphrey hurts of course...

And I agree that moving laterally seems to be a bit of a weakness for him.  Moving vertically (i.e. second level and going up field at guys) seems to be a strength for him.  He'll be slow, especially on that first step to get someone on a reach block, but once he gets going, he moves well. 

I don't remember it the same way, but those mocks are also totally meaningless. The way I remember it, the consensus was that he'd go after teammate and fellow IOL Wyatt Davis and Humphrey was as high as the 1st. Davis was picked right after Amari Rodgers and was even worse than Rodgers was.

The lateral quickness is the most important thing for a center. If you can't get to your man, you let him cross your face, that blows up the whole play in the Packers scheme. So I think that's an argument for him playing Guard. I get wanting a big physical Travis Frederick type Center, but they have to be able to consistently make that 1st block. Getting to the LBers is important, but obviously making the play at the point is the priority. 

 

They know what they're doing just fine though. Even if Tom plays Guard this year, I'd be surprised if that's his future position. His career may very well lineup with Bahtiari's. If you move off him after this year, Tom I think has shown he can be a LT. Otherwise, Nijman is also a FA after this year. I think he'll end up outside at some point. Maybe that plays into this. They may not want to spend the time making him a full-time center if they plan on moving him next year.

 

Not using a single pick on the OL this year is also probably an indication the Packers feel very good about their young OL(though Gutey did specifically say the OL they liked were gone by 13, so at least Johnson and Skoronski and perhaps Wright).

[Fear The Chorizo]

On 6/18/2023 at 8:14 PM, nate82 said:

I will have to find the article again but Adams wasn't going to sign with the Packers and he let the Packers know this early in the off season.  It was all about Rodgers not wanting to commit to more than one year that Adams didn't want to stick around.  So Rodgers had to commit to more than one year and he never did that last off season.  So it was far before this that the Packers had their answer on Adams and they knew he was gone when the Broncos trade was nixed. 

Well, Davante found out pretty quickly he made the wrong choice and would've been much better off (and wealthier) had he signed that Packer contract offer.  Heck, he may be getting traded again after 1 year in Vegas.  I think much of this is hindsight explanation/reasoning for him opting to move on and the Packers actually trading him at peak value before it was obvious they were going to have a tagged WR who wasn't going to play for them anymore.  From the Packers' perspective, at least in longterm cap health, they have to be breathing a sigh of relief it played out like it did.

If the Packers truly knew and believed Adams wasn't coming back under any circumstances very early in the offseason, it would've been all over the league.  Oftentimes, more lucrative contract offers wind up changing minds - in this instance that wasn't the case.

[Matt Breen]

14 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

On 6/19/2023 at 3:59 PM, CheezWizHed said:

I seem to remember Myers being projected in the 3rd round, maybe 4th.  Not 6th.  Being picked at the end of the 2nd wasn't much of a reach.  Picking Myers over Humphrey hurts of course...

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure most people had Myers around 3rd round. I think the big surprise was taking him with Humphrey on the board. 

Oh well. Different people evaluate and value players differently. It just sucks when it's a poor evaluation. But who knows, maybe Myers steps up his game this year. Gotta hope.

[owbc]

Quote

“You know,” Rodgers said, “words are so interesting. They have such power in their spells. There’s a reason it’s called ‘spelling,’ because the way that the letters are put together have such power.”

Not our problem anymore! 

[nate82]

57 minutes ago, owbc said:

Not our problem anymore! 

Mr. Rodgers, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

 

One of the greatest movie quotes ever!

[GAME05]

There's some truth to it, sure, but you also know he heard it during some drug trip and thought it was the deepest and most meaningful comment he'd ever heard.

[SeaBass]

Quote

“You know,” Rodgers said, “words are so interesting. They have such power in their spells. There’s a reason it’s called ‘spelling,’ because the way that the letters are put together have such power.”

Live look at Aaron Rodgers

[RobDeer 45]

Taking your Packer homer hats off, how do you think this team will do in 2023?  Do we think Love can be better than average for his career?  I was impressed with the way he looked last year.  He looked like he had figured things out.  That said, I'm still worried about what I've seen in the past, a qb that would just throw the ball up when he was under pressure.

[homer]

24 minutes ago, RobDeer 45 said:

Taking your Packer homer hats off, how do you think this team will do in 2023?  Do we think Love can be better than average for his career?  I was impressed with the way he looked last year.  He looked like he had figured things out.  That said, I'm still worried about what I've seen in the past, a qb that would just throw the ball up when he was under pressure.

To me, a reasonable expectation is he matches Rodgers' performance from last year with more rushing yards (even though I don't think he's gonna be a "runner"):

26 TD, 12 INT 64.6 Comp% 3700 yards

[Fear The Chorizo]

1 hour ago, RobDeer 45 said:

Taking your Packer homer hats off, how do you think this team will do in 2023?  Do we think Love can be better than average for his career?  I was impressed with the way he looked last year.  He looked like he had figured things out.  That said, I'm still worried about what I've seen in the past, a qb that would just throw the ball up when he was under pressure.

If they don't catch the injury bug and get key guys back like Gary and Stokes at a reasonable time during the year, their schedule alone is going to have them competing for a playoff spot.  If Love plays well winning the division is a definite possibility.  Even if he plays poorly early on but shows signs of improvement with playing experience, I think they're good enough to muddle through a 6-8 win season and set themselves up for a big offseason with the cap relief that's coming.  

I'm looking forward to this season more than previous years - and it's not because Rodgers is gone...they've now got a young team that also still has alot of veteran talent at key positions. 

[SeaBass]

I think 8 or 9 wins would be an extremely successful season. 5 to 7 wins is more likely.

I just don't want to see an injury to Love, especially early on. It's imperative that he can show who he is as a starter for a whole season. My greatest fear is he plays a short time with ups and downs but then gets hurt and the Packers get stuck in decision purgatory.

[Samurai Bucky]

3 hours ago, RobDeer 45 said:

Taking your Packer homer hats off, how do you think this team will do in 2023?  Do we think Love can be better than average for his career?  I was impressed with the way he looked last year.  He looked like he had figured things out.  That said, I'm still worried about what I've seen in the past, a qb that would just throw the ball up when he was under pressure.

I'm expecting to see an offense that is very different than what we have seen in the past.  I will be happy if the Packers go 10-7.  The offense will struggle to start off the season and people will question LaFleur's coaching ability to the point where they will be calling for a new skipper.

Love will be fine, but he will be able to work within the offensive scheme instead of directing the scheme.  My feeling was that Rodgers was all about "my way or the highway."

I don't think I will pick up Love on my Fantasy Football team.  Jones or Dillon?  Maybe.

[sveumrules]

2 hours ago, SeaBass said:

I think 8 or 9 wins would be an extremely successful season. 5 to 7 wins is more likely.

I just don't want to see an injury to Love, especially early on. It's imperative that he can show who he is as a starter for a whole season. My greatest fear is he plays a short time with ups and downs but then gets hurt and the Packers get stuck in decision purgatory.

This is pretty much where I'm at.

My only real hope for the season is for Love to make it through mostly unscathed. 

Beyond that I'm just excited to see something "new", whatever that may be,

[CheezWizHed]

20 hours ago, sveumrules said:

This is pretty much where I'm at.

My only real hope for the season is for Love to make it through mostly unscathed. 

Beyond that I'm just excited to see something "new", whatever that may be,

Ditto.  I think Love can clearly show who he is as a QB.  An injury or just an "ok" season - teasing greatness, but falling short - would make it really hard for next year.  I fear him becoming like Dak and get stuck waiting for him to take the step up from good to great, but still dragging the team down in the end.

Is it sad that 10% of me wants him to fail miserably so we can get the #1 pick of the 2024 draft? 

[GAME05]

I think Love has really good tools apart from accuracy, so if he can improve that a bit he should be really good. I lean toward about seven wins next year though not so much on Love not being good but that the WR group isn't particularly good and the TEs probably won't contribute much this year. And I'm tired of being optimistic about the performance of the defense.

[BrewerFan]

13 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

Ditto.  I think Love can clearly show who he is as a QB.  An injury or just an "ok" season - teasing greatness, but falling short - would make it really hard for next year.  I fear him becoming like Dak and get stuck waiting for him to take the step up from good to great, but still dragging the team down in the end.

Is it sad that 10% of me wants him to fail miserably so we can get the #1 pick of the 2024 draft? 

No...anyone who's watched Caleb Williams can understand this.

You just outlined pretty much the worst case scenario. Not that he has just an OK season. He can have an OK season and show flashes and improve. I have a feeling this is gonna be a 'we know it when we see it,' type of thing.

The physical tools are elite. I think he's got a bigger and better arm than Dak...but so much pressure on his shoulders.

 

[BrewerFan]

On 7/20/2023 at 11:34 AM, Fear The Chorizo said:

If they don't catch the injury bug and get key guys back like Gary and Stokes at a reasonable time during the year, their schedule alone is going to have them competing for a playoff spot.  If Love plays well winning the division is a definite possibility.  Even if he plays poorly early on but shows signs of improvement with playing experience, I think they're good enough to muddle through a 6-8 win season and set themselves up for a big offseason with the cap relief that's coming.  

I'm looking forward to this season more than previous years - and it's not because Rodgers is gone...they've now got a young team that also still has alot of veteran talent at key positions. 

The schedule is just...so weak(at least it looks like it now).

I know this sounds stupid, but I don't even care all that much about the record or the playoffs. This is about the next 10-15 years, see if Love can be the guy. 

12 hours ago, GAME05 said:

I think Love has really good tools apart from accuracy, so if he can improve that a bit he should be really good. I lean toward about seven wins next year though not so much on Love not being good but that the WR group isn't particularly good and the TEs probably won't contribute much this year. And I'm tired of being optimistic about the performance of the defense.

The bolded part is why I'm not particularly worried about the record.

I think Love's accuracy is really good when he's just lose and letting it rip. And he did that last year, both pre-season and post. I think the WRers probably won't be a great group, but they're talented, deep and diverse. So there's a ton of room for growth there. I'm sure we'll see drops and mistakes. Love in a weird way may be better with this group than Rodgers. Just getting to grow with them.

The TEs you could be right. It's hard to know how two rookies are going to play. Musgraves looks like a big time threat down the seam though. We did get 2 of the top TEs in a very deep TE class. 

 

End of the year...11-6 and we lose in the playoffs or 6-11 and we're eliminated by week 12, if we go into next year knowing we have our QB of the future and we can use our two 1st round picks on building around Love, this season will be a massive success. That's it. The only barometer. 

[young guns]

All I know is that it's going to be weird seeing our starting qb get more than like 5 preseason game snaps.

[CheezWizHed]

On 7/22/2023 at 11:41 AM, young guns said:

All I know is that it's going to be weird seeing our starting qb get more than like 5 preseason game snaps.

And refreshing.  Also refreshing to see him actually working the offseason and learning his WRs.  Something Rodgers evidently learned and is doing in NY

[OldHeidelberg]

I don't see any talk anywhere here of Rodgers taking a pay cut with the Jets. My first thought was he wants them to trade for Bakh but reports this morning are maybe he was making room for Delvin Cook. It's probably more about his ego though, just wants to be like Brady and make it look like he has never been greedy. Cleans up his image a bit and maybe makes him more marketable. He also got a no tag clause so after 25 he can sign anywhere. 

 

Back on topic camp is here!