Nightengale Notebook: Is Counsell going to retire?

[Brock Beauchamp]

There isn't much in the way of real information about his potential retirement but the quotes from the players really stand out: they adore Craig Counsell. It shows how integral he is to the guys on the field.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2023/07/16/clayton-kershaw-craig-counsell-ready-to-retire-future-baseball/70417549007/

[ClosetBrewerFan]

I sure hope Counsell stays.  I have my occasional criticism, but he has been great manager for so long. 

[YelichPosse]

Any of the failings of the Brewers team fall squarely on the lack of spending ability, or the trotting out mostly an AAAA team over the years. CC has done an amazing job managing ‘up’ to get the best out of some of these guys. Often the buttons he pushes work out fantastically. Just a great feel for the game. Yea we will give him crap for some things but overall - he’s about as good a manger as you can get. ESPECIALLY considering the constraints we have in our market!

[MadScientist]

There isn't a better game day manager in baseball.  The Brewers need to do whatever is necessary to keep him. 

[brewers888]

Just now, MadScientist said:

There isn't a better game day manager in baseball.  The Brewers need to do whatever is necessary to keep him. 

I don't think this is a matter of money just that Counsell may be burned out. Between his playing career and managing he could just feel like its time to enjoy other facets of his life besides baseball.

[folly412]

With his kids out of school, wouldn't be surprised if he took a year or two off to refresh and showed up when there's an open gig in someplace warm like Vegas (if they become willing to spend after relo) or Houston.

[BruisedCrew]

30 minutes ago, folly412 said:

With his kids out of school, wouldn't be surprised if he took a year or two off to refresh and showed up when there's an open gig in someplace warm like Vegas (if they become willing to spend after relo) or Houston.

His sons are out of high school but his daughters aren’t. 

He did have the good fortune of seeing his youngest son play for the state championship (which they won) because that was the week the Brewers played in Minnesota Tuesday night and Wednesday afternoon. So, he was able to see the quarterfinal game on Monday morning and the semifinal and final on Wednesday and Thursday nights. 

[homer]

6 hours ago, folly412 said:

With his kids out of school, wouldn't be surprised if he took a year or two off to refresh and showed up when there's an open gig in someplace warm like Vegas (if they become willing to spend after relo) or Houston.

It's warm in Milwaukee during the season. 

[BrewerFan]

7 hours ago, folly412 said:

With his kids out of school, wouldn't be surprised if he took a year or two off to refresh and showed up when there's an open gig in someplace warm like Vegas (if they become willing to spend after relo) or Houston.

I really doubt he leaves the Brewers for a year or two and then goes and gets a job with another team.

If he retires, it'd be to the Brewers FO...and that's where he'd probably have to just go by feel. They find a new manager(maybe it's just Murphy) and I think he'd be back at some point.

He's a Brewer. 

[DoubleSwitch]

I've been mentally preparing myself for him joining Stearns in New York next year ever since I heard he was going play out the year as a lame duck.

[BrewFan130]

I really think the writing is on the wall. Just the fact that Counsell hasn’t signed a contract extension with under 2 months left in the regular season is the biggest indicator as he’s an absolute shoe in for a contract extension. I’d say the rumors about about his kids being at an age were seeing them play games and having a bigger influence in their maturing into adults. Just because his family lives in MKE doesn’t mean he actually gets to see them. Even when they’re playing at home he still doesn’t get home until at least midnight. I don’t see him going to NY with Stearns as he’d only have less time with the family. That said, I hope he changes his mind and signs an extension in MKE, I hate the idea of seeing anyone else in the dugout for the Brewers. 

[BlightyBrew]

Players manager.  Has had a great run. This year with the roster the FO has given him, he has done an outstanding job.  No pennant or WS appearance, unfortunately.  Nothing last forever.

However, might be time for a new voice in the clubhouse along with the way FO evaluates and puts together an offensive roster.

[Bulldogboy]

I like Counsell alot. That said I'm ok with bringing in somebody new. He's done a fantastic job but no world series in 9 years isn't exactly Lasorda or Torre. There are smart guys out there that may be a little more flexible and willing to work with the young talent they have coming. 

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Counsell has the best winning percentage of any manager in MLB history in 1 run games

https://www.si.com/mlb/2023/08/14/brewers-milwaukee-magic-one-run-games-playoffs

Kinda important for a team that wins on the margins

[Playing Catch]

I love Counsell and hope he stays forever.

With that said, is it possible that this gnashing of teeth is just Derek Johnson all over again? We (myself included) like to think that he's been working with bad rosters for his entire term, but is this a fallacy? He's benefitted from having lights-out bullpens for the last 6 seasons. He's had 2 MVP caliber seasons from Yelich. He's had Cy Young+ with Burnes/Woodruff with good, quality depth in pitching.

Perhaps Counsell is looking at a minor re-build the next couple of seasons and isn't looking forward to that kind of grind. Why not take a couple years in a cushy FO role, and take over again in 2026? Baseball is littered with great managers that take a couple years to do something different only to return later.

[mtsportsfan]

Cc might be a little  burned out ! I could go either way if he stays or goes ! I thought he was a way better manager when we didn't have the DH  and more so when when pitchers didn't have to pitch to three hitters. Think they also changed the limited times you could send a player back and forth to the minors ( not sure ) 

It has to be exhausting to know no matter the move more often than not the player can't execute. His stubbornness not to take Adames out or move him farther down the line up is puzzling. 

[Never Outhustled]

I think CC might be burned out from working for a cheapskate like Attanasio. CC is a competitor, I'm guessing he despises Mark.

 

I still think he'll be back next year though. 

[sveumrules]

3 hours ago, Never Outhustled said:

I think CC might be burned out from working for a cheapskate like Attanasio. CC is a competitor, I'm guessing he despises Mark.

 

I still think he'll be back next year though. 

Counsell’s dad worked for noted big spender Bud Selig.

Craig won the World Series as a player with the Marlins and DBacks.

If we’re editorializing here, I think he understands the financial realities of small market baseball better than most, and has probably accepted those realities as part of the challenge.

[MrTPlush]

CC is a perfect manager for the Brewers. However, the mystery around his contract is pretty clear he doesn’t want to manage a rebuild. He has kids and such. Burnes and Woodruff have a year left, if neither returns…he won’t. No one wants a Milwaukee championship outside of fans more than CC…but if it isn’t possible, he has better things to do.

It should be interesting to see how that transpired after the season. Something tells me Counsell will leave before Burnes/Woodruff/Off-season ever kicks off. The writing is kind of on the wall already.

 

[wiguy94]

38 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

CC is a perfect manager for the Brewers. However, the mystery around his contract is pretty clear he doesn’t want to manage a rebuild. He has kids and such. Burnes and Woodruff have a year left, if neither returns…he won’t. No one wants a Milwaukee championship outside of fans more than CC…but if it isn’t possible, he has better things to do.

It should be interesting to see how that transpired after the season. Something tells me Counsell will leave before Burnes/Woodruff/Off-season ever kicks off. The writing is kind of on the wall already.

 

The Brewers have made it very clear they have no intention of rebuilding.

[Brewcrew82]

1 minute ago, wiguy94 said:

The Brewers have made it very clear they have no intention of rebuilding.

Precisely. And they don't need to with a top 3 farm system in baseball and a young talent transition that's currently underway on the MLB roster.

[BrewerFan]

33 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Precisely. And they don't need to with a top 3 farm system in baseball and a young talent transition that's currently underway on the MLB roster.

MAYBE losing Burnes(and even Woodruff) does not mean we're in a "rebuild."

We'd almost certainly be improving our offense, our defense and we'd be downgrading our SPing with Gasser hopefully Ashby, Carlos Rodriguez and then perhaps a FA signing(perhaps Miley is back as well) heading into next year.

That wouldn't be a rebuild. It'd be a necessary transition for a team that cannot afford to pay TOR pitchers a year our from FA. 

 

Heading into next year if you just told me they traded Burnes and kept Woodruff, I'd expect the Brewers to be an mid 80 win team, but one with a wider variation of potential outcomes as you don't know what you'd be getting exactly from Chourio, Black, Mitchell(he has looked good in small samples, but I don't know if he's kinda an elite 4th OFer with Chourio/Frelick and Wiemer or if he pushes one out of the lineup or platoons(they shouldn't consider platooning Chourio and I don't like platooning Frelick so that leaves the one option).

15 hours ago, sveumrules said:

Counsell’s dad worked for noted big spender Bud Selig.

We actually were big spenders there for a minute under Selig. We led the AL a couple years, handed out the big contract in MLB history to Yount...but that's when the payrolls were 20M, not 500M with the luxury tax like the Mets are paying.

 

In any event, I don't think he's blaming Attanasio. He worked in the FO before moving back into the dugout. I think he understands...as you said.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

On 8/18/2023 at 5:09 PM, mtsportsfan said:

Cc might be a little  burned out ! I could go either way if he stays or goes ! I thought he was a way better manager when we didn't have the DH  and more so when when pitchers didn't have to pitch to three hitters. Think they also changed the limited times you could send a player back and forth to the minors ( not sure ) 

It has to be exhausting to know no matter the move more often than not the player can't execute. His stubbornness not to take Adames out or move him farther down the line up is puzzling. 

The Brewers are currently 10 games over in spite of more nights where they forget how to hit more than any other team in the NL and having outscored opponents by 1 run on the season. He's doing something very right.

[Never Outhustled]

23 hours ago, sveumrules said:

Counsell’s dad worked for noted big spender Bud Selig.

Craig won the World Series as a player with the Marlins and DBacks.

If we’re editorializing here, I think he understands the financial realities of small market baseball better than most, and has probably accepted those realities as part of the challenge.

He's worked in the front office, so he knows those realities are made up. Attanasio could spend another  $40 million a year on the Brewers.

[sveumrules]

1 minute ago, Never Outhustled said:

He's worked in the front office, so he knows those realities are made up. Attanasio could spend another  $40 million a year on the Brewers.

Sure, so could every other owner in MLB. Some owners, with larger team specific income streams and greater personal wealth, could easily spend another $100M+ a year on payroll.