Trade proposal for Jimenez

[ELCABALLO45]

The one thing about Eloy and this is a total guess on my part, but I could see him as a guy that would flourish getting out of the dumpster fire that is the Chicago White Sox organization and joining a fun group in Milwaukee with a players manager like Craig. 

[SF70]

Jarvis-Lara-Adames for:

Jiminez & Anderson + $.

The Brewers have been rumored to be interested in adding an IF, so Tim Anderson makes a lot of sense in addition to Jiminez. BTV has the both of them combined at near 0 SV, so the money helps get the Chisox the trio of talent, which according to BTV is near $10M. 

So Jiminez & Anderson & $10M seems like a pretty fair deal to me, and one I’d do.

Love Adames, love Lara, but both are 3+ years away. The team added 3B depth with Wilken-Bitonti that replaces the 3B depth lost in Severino and Adames. Team has OF depth up the ying-yang, so losing Lara is tolerable. Jarvis is a backend starter at best, so that’s replaceable as well.

Team can play Anderson at 2B, and also spell Adames. Anderson is only 30 and a better ball-player than he’s currently showing. Getting him and Jiminez away from that dysfunctional team and organization should do wonders for the both of them.

 

[Playing Catch]

10 minutes ago, ELCABALLO45 said:

The one thing about Eloy and this is a total guess on my part, but I could see him as a guy that would flourish getting out of the dumpster fire that is the Chicago White Sox organization and joining a fun group in Milwaukee with a players manager like Craig. 

I just love a post that expresses admiration for the current team and manager instead of doubt, dread, doom, and disappointment.

[TURBO]

Anderson is a dick though, I don't want to root for that idiot...

[Never Outhustled]

18 minutes ago, TURBO said:

Anderson is a dick though, I don't want to root for that idiot...

Also, hes simply having a bad year. Owen Miller is now free to play 2B if we need another body there. 

Make the deal simple, just Eloy.

[StearnsFTW]

9 hours ago, SRB said:

Severino is a more interesting prospect than Jarvis/Moore, but that's just my opinion.

If you think that Jimenez is mediocre and are expecting the White Sox to just give him to us for a lower tier prospect, you are going to be sorely disappointed in the trade deadline this year. I guarantee you that if Jimenez is traded there will be a top-100 prospect involved.

This is classic homerism from the other side, no different than "The Brewers should trade us Devin Williams for our #19 organizational depth prospect!" type proposals

Pretty ridiculous comparison.

 

I personally would not give up a top 100 prospect for Jimenez.

 

I'd go Brown and another player but that's about it.

[SRB]

2 hours ago, StearnsFTW said:

Pretty ridiculous comparison.

 

I personally would not give up a top 100 prospect for Jimenez.

 

I'd go Brown and another player but that's about it.

You can debate whether he's worth it or not, I'm just predicting what it will realistically take to actually land him. Personally I'd be happy to pay the asking price, others apparently disagree and don't want to roll the dice on huge offensive upside.

Brown is closer to a realistic starting point than Jarvis, assuming the White Sox evaluators really love Brown.

[brewcrewdue80]

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/eloy-jimenez/17484/stats?position=DH/OF

 

scroll on down to FGs value. Not one season above 14M value.  

So at best historically, he's worth his salary next season, and not worth picking up the option years. This is why his trade value is negative. You'll pay more than what he's just worth next year to buyout from picking up his option.

He's a borderline salary dump move and should see the return reflect that. White Sox would need to kick money Brewers way to increase the return. Because of the value with option years to performance, you can't even think a team would QO him beyond those option years. 

He really shouldn't cost a lot in trade. He's more lottery ticket return than taking any of the Brewer top 100 prospect that have eclipsed being lotto ticket.  Luis Lara makes sense in this regard, but he too may be passing the thought as a lotto ticket.

[Jopal78]

3 hours ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/eloy-jimenez/17484/stats?position=DH/OF

 

scroll on down to FGs value. Not one season above 14M value.  

So at best historically, he's worth his salary next season, and not worth picking up the option years. This is why his trade value is negative. You'll pay more than what he's just worth next year to buyout from picking up his option.

He's a borderline salary dump move and should see the return reflect that. White Sox would need to kick money Brewers way to increase the return. Because of the value with option years to performance, you can't even think a team would QO him beyond those option years. 

He really shouldn't cost a lot in trade. He's more lottery ticket return than taking any of the Brewer top 100 prospect that have eclipsed being lotto ticket.  Luis Lara makes sense in this regard, but he too may be passing the thought as a lotto ticket.

If Jimenez is a borderline salary dump why would the Brewers want him? 
 

Moreover, look at the multi year deals being signed by outfielders recently:  Avi Garcia got 4 years 53 million before the ‘22 season. Michael Conforto got 2 yrs 36 million, Benintendi got 5 years 75 million. Mitch Haniger got 3 yrs 44 million.
 

Unless teams are dumpster diving for one year bandaids they can’t sign a starting outfielder in today’s game for less than 15 million per. Thus, Jimenez’s club options are not as worthless as one believes. 
 

Now if you’re saying the Brewers have tepid interest because they don’t want to add anymore market rate player contracts, that’s a concept I would get behind. 

[wallus]

2 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

If Jimenez is a borderline salary dump why would the Brewers want him? 
 

Moreover, look at the multi year deals being signed by outfielders recently:  Avi Garcia got 4 years 53 million before the ‘22 season. Michael Conforto got 2 yrs 36 million, Benintendi got 5 years 75 million. Mitch Haniger got 3 yrs 44 million.

Well if you consider Jimenez a viable outfielder (he isn't) then I could see how this is a problem. The guys you mention played at least somewhat passable defense recently. Jimenez has been bad ever since he has been a MLB player and outfield defense is not something that gets better with age normally. 

Compare guys that are DH only with health issues and you get a lot different story.

[umphrey]

I was down playing Jimenez value but you guys are taking it too far IMO. He’s only owed about $16m and you get him for 2 years worth of playoffs. He makes most teams better as a DH. The club options in his contract, I’m pricing them out assuming they don’t get picked up, but something could change and they are all upside no downside. 

[igor67]

Given the large amount of positional flexibility elsewhere on the roster currently and in the near future, I think the positional adjustments built into WAR stats for DHing are artificially suppressing his value to us. Or flipped around another way we are often playing very mediocre bats at that position where their defensive value doesn't net us any benefit. Honestly given the likely lowered asking price because of his limitations and injury history he is probably more attractive to us. With Black and Chourio looking like they will be pushing for call-ups next season that future injury risk is also a bit less daunting.

[KeithStone53151]

I went poking around on the white sox forums again. There's a thread on the Eloy Brewers rumor. They seem to view Burger/Eloy as similar value all things considered, they also seem to think Tyler Black would be fair value for either one of the players. Some said they MIGHT consider Misiorowski. The Lara/Adams being held out yesterday had them completely uninterested. I'm not going to apply my opinion to that, that's simply the general consensus I gathered from the opposing viewpoint.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I'm warming to the idea of adding Jimenez as this team's DH, if the cost isn't too steep.  RH bat with plenty of pop that can carry a 0.275+ avg is exactly what the middle of this lineup needs.

If he's healthy, Jimenez's contract carries plenty of value...and if he underperforms/is injured those club options for 2025 and 2026 are very handy.  

If the Brewers can put together a package of a couple projectable lower level prospects who are likely to be blocked when they'd be ready for MLB, plus a MLB-ready arm, sign me up!

[Fear The Chorizo]

4 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

If Jimenez is a borderline salary dump why would the Brewers want him? 
 

Moreover, look at the multi year deals being signed by outfielders recently:  Avi Garcia got 4 years 53 million before the ‘22 season. Michael Conforto got 2 yrs 36 million, Benintendi got 5 years 75 million. Mitch Haniger got 3 yrs 44 million.
 

Unless teams are dumpster diving for one year bandaids they can’t sign a starting outfielder in today’s game for less than 15 million per. Thus, Jimenez’s club options are not as worthless as one believes. 
 

Now if you’re saying the Brewers have tepid interest because they don’t want to add anymore market rate player contracts, that’s a concept I would get behind. 

Agreed - his contract #s are very reasonable for the production he could provide over full, healthy seasons.  Limiting him to a DH-only role should help avoid many of the injuries that have cost Eloy a ton of time the past few seasons, too.  He's still just 26.

 

[umphrey]

1 hour ago, KeithStone53151 said:

I went poking around on the white sox forums again. There's a thread on the Eloy Brewers rumor. They seem to view Burger/Eloy as similar value all things considered, they also seem to think Tyler Black would be fair value for either one of the players. Some said they MIGHT consider Misiorowski. The Lara/Adams being held out yesterday had them completely uninterested. I'm not going to apply my opinion to that, that's simply the general consensus I gathered from the opposing viewpoint.

I don't know where the industry is on those guys right now. I could see Jimenez going for a back end top 100 guy and a throw in, or 3 prospects outside the top 100. Unless we are talking about a true premium player, I think the latter type of deal is more common, but fans want the best 1 prospect they can reasonably think of. 

[Redd Vencher]

2 years of Renfroe making simlar money to what Jimenez is guaranteed through 2024 (nearly $20 M) netted 2 non top 10 org prospects in a bad farm system at the time, and the Red Sox had to take on JBJ's contract to do so. The market on these types of players has been pretty well established for a while.

[SRB]

Eloy Jimenez is projected as around a top-25 hitter in all of baseball. This thread is crazy!

[Jopal78]

4 hours ago, wallus said:

Well if you consider Jimenez a viable outfielder (he isn't) then I could see how this is a problem. The guys you mention played at least somewhat passable defense recently. Jimenez has been bad ever since he has been a MLB player and outfield defense is not something that gets better with age normally. 

Compare guys that are DH only with health issues and you get a lot different story.

What does being a poor defender or DH only have to do with anything? Positional players make their money based on what they do at the plate. Besides that, Paul Molitor stayed healthy, had his best production and punched his ticket to the Hall of Fame as a DH only-maybe Jimenez too would have a jump in production not having to deal with nagging injuries from playing the field. 
 

Bottom line, I doubt the Brewers and White Sox hook up for a trade on Jimenez, because the Sox will justifiably want some premium talent back for a myriad of reasons: ‘23 is a seller’s market, Jimenez is a good hitter, just 26 and cost controlled for years. I doubt they’d accept some quantity over quality deal just to move him.  Likewise,  the Brewers almost never move their best prospects in deadline deals.

[umphrey]

30 minutes ago, SRB said:

Eloy Jimenez is projected as around a top-25 hitter in all of baseball. This thread is crazy!

He’s currently the 13th ranked DH and 71st overall. 

[Austin Tatious]

I think Jiminez has a skill set that we lack in the organization.  I would be happy to get him even if we had to give up a couple of prospects between 6-15 in our system who are not pitchers.  There's some good prospects in the mix there.  Mis or Quero is crazy talk though.

[wiguy94]

34 minutes ago, SRB said:

Eloy Jimenez is projected as around a top-25 hitter in all of baseball. This thread is crazy!

Don't know where you got that number from. Here were his preseason projections this year.

ZiPS - 128 wRC+ (52nd)

ZiPS DC - 128 wRC+ (53rd)

Steamer - 132 wRC+ (31st)

ATC - 131 wRC+ (30th)

THE BAT - 126 wRC+ (40th)

THE BAT X -  121 wRC+ (46th)

Here are his 2024 and 2025 ZiPS projections:

2024 - 124 wRC+ (41st)

2025 - 118 wRC+ (61st) 

That is not a projected near top-25 hitter in all of baseball.

 

[Devinep]

Assuming none of Frelick, Weimer, Mitchell, or Churio go to Chicago in an Eloy trade, I would think the crowded OF would push Jimenez to basically full time DH. That’s the best spot for him anyway, but this would possibly need to happen after Yelich would agree to commit to playing 1B as soon as next year due to the OF logjam and DH being taken up

[SRB]

1 hour ago, wiguy94 said:

Don't know where you got that number from. Here were his preseason projections this year.

ZiPS - 128 wRC+ (52nd)

ZiPS DC - 128 wRC+ (53rd)

Steamer - 132 wRC+ (31st)

ATC - 131 wRC+ (30th)

THE BAT - 126 wRC+ (40th)

THE BAT X -  121 wRC+ (46th)

Here are his 2024 and 2025 ZiPS projections:

2024 - 124 wRC+ (41st)

2025 - 118 wRC+ (61st) 

That is not a projected near top-25 hitter in all of baseball.

 

I got it by... looking at rest-of-season projections? ZiPS is going to severely undervalue him because he's been inconsistent/injured and so he's had down years at 26. As I keep saying in this thread, you only trade for Jimenez if you think his true talent level if closer to his peaks than his valleys.

If you aren't interested in the Brewers ever acquiring a potential middle-of-the-order hitter, as many on here apparently are not, then yeah you can take the most pessimistic/cautious view possible and assume that Jimenez will never be better than his career stats at 26.

[SRB]

1 hour ago, umphrey said:

He’s currently the 13th ranked DH and 71st overall. 

I said projected, not year-to-date.

Willy Adames is currently the 19th ranked SS and 130th overall, so thank goodness this forum doesn't run the team or we would be dumping him for salary relief 🤣