Very Early 2024 Roster Discussion

[jerichoholicninja]

18 hours ago, ClosetBrewerFan said:

This just sounds like GM speak to me.  ...  I may trade him but I don't want to announce that I will because that will lower his value. 

Has any GM ever said, "yes, we are trying to trade so and so" other than probably the Mariners with Griffey? I haven't read anything about the presser from yesterday because whatever was said means absolutely nothing.

[Underachiever]

@Joseph Zarr: I am asking you this because of your avatar. Chorizo had a dismal year in the sausage race. I believe they had 10 wins all year. I pull for Chorizo every time, but they broke my heart all season. In Game 1 of the Dback series, Chorizo was Winkerish. Late start, not even competitive, it was over as soon as it started.

What would it take to improve Chorizo in the sausage race? I can't believe the Brewers will go into 2024 with that spicy, gaping hole at the 5. I'm wondering if there are any sausages at Nashville that could take over Chorizo given the proper seasoning.

And yes, I used "they" as a pronoun, despite the fact that if anyone could be assumed to be a "he", it's a sausage.

[Underachiever]

Arnold announces his intentions with Burnes, Woodruff, and Adames:

https://www.google.com/search?q=tobias+funke+fire+sale&rlz=1C1RXQR_enUS954US954&oq=tobias+funke+fire&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgAEAAYgAQyBwgAEAAYgAQyBwgBEAAYgAQyBggCEEUYOdIBCDU3MjZqMWo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:06620f9f,vid:280yPTyei0U,st:0

[MrTPlush]

4 minutes ago, Underachiever said:

@Joseph Zarr: I am asking you this because of your avatar. Chorizo had a dismal year in the sausage race. I believe they had 10 wins all year. I pull for Chorizo every time, but they broke my heart all season. In Game 1 of the Dback series, Chorizo was Winkerish. Late start, not even competitive, it was over as soon as it started.

What would it take to improve Chorizo in the sausage race? I can't believe the Brewers will go into 2024 with that spicy, gaping hole at the 5. I'm wondering if there are any sausages at Nashville that could take over Chorizo given the proper seasoning.

And yes, I used "they" as a pronoun, despite the fact that if anyone could be assumed to be a "he", it's a sausage.

Calling it now, Chorizo will be in the best shape of his life come Spring Training.

 

[Underachiever]

That gif is...disturbing.

[Joseph Zarr]

A well-seasoned chorizo will state its case as an 'every race' threat - every season, every game, and most definitely every race. Sometimes, and this is rare like we witnessed in 2023, the culinary team gets a little overzealous and throws in a bit too much pork fat in the blend. The seasoning gets washed out some and there is just no leg in those spicy little numbers. If I were a betting man, I'd simply opine chorizo was weighted down - by expectations, sure, but more actual fat. They sprinted into a full season overcooked. Tossed in a scramble and drowned in quick carb potatoes - sprinting out of the gates but losing that long distance mettle that wins those championship trophies. Huh. It seems to me they were the omen for the Brewers squandered playoff hopes if we were reading the tea leaves. We were too busy dreaming big while chorizo was bearing the weight of our inevitable burden. 

My friends tell me: "It's just a sausage race!" OH NO, I say! OH NO! Chorizo is life.

[Harold Hutchison]

On 10/9/2023 at 5:04 PM, reillymcshane said:

I can understand it if the club looks to see what the market is for Adamas/Burnes/Woody/Williams. But that aside, they have a few things they need to decide:

1. What is Tyler Black's role? Is he a 3B? A 2B? 1B? What? Figure this out to help shape the future.
2. What's the future of Wiemer? I think an OF of Yelich, Frelick, Mitchell, Wiemer and Taylor would be nice. But the club let Joey sit a lot the last month or two. Do they believe he can be a key player? How do they get him untracked after he stumbled in the 2nd half of 2023.
3. What's Turang's future? The guy has a glove, but will his bat ever play (his glove is going to be fine)? If the team doesn't think so they need to move on from him sooner than later. 

Personally, I'd like to see Gasser in the rotation next year. And I'd like Canha brought back. But so much depends on trades and options being picked up or not, etc.

1. Third base. Solves what was the second-biggest offensive hole in the infield easily.

2. I see Yelich at 1B/DH from 2024 on. If he is at first/DH with Canha for 2024, that gives the Crew an outfield group of Frelick, Mitchell, Wiemer, and Taylor, with Perkins in AAA and Chourio knocking at the door. Once Chourio forces the issue, the Crew can deal Canha and/or Taylor and reload the system some that way. Once Taylor and/or Canha are moved, then Frelick/Mitchell/Wiemer/Choruio can rotate between the outfield and DH.

3. This is a big question - but then again, if his bat doesn't wake up, just at the AA/AAA level there's Devanney, Dorrian, Zamora, and Murray, with Eric Brown Jr. and Robert Moore pushing their way up and the chance that Juan Baez's bat could force a Chourio-like ascent through the farm system.

 

[Harold Hutchison]

On 10/10/2023 at 11:30 AM, shanedog19 said:

How they handle Adames this offseason will be interesting. He is the team leader, had a great second half of the season, and plays a stellar defensive SS. They also shouldn't overpay for him, given Turang could take over that position. What if the Brewers offered him something like a 4 year, $50 million extension this offseason? Does he laugh at that? Could we afford anything more? I personally would like to keep him for the right price. As has already been mentioned, you can't move him during the middle of the season because of the team mutiny it would create a la Josh Hader.

Probably needs to be 4 years/$70 million to have a chance. Adames would be worth it, IMO, just as a leader and stabilizing force. If Turang's bat wasn't such a question mark, I'd feel different, but right now, the Crew needs Willy at short.

[BrewerFan]

On 10/9/2023 at 6:57 PM, LouisEly said:

1. Double-check w/the minor league mavins @Joseph Zarr, @Smichaelis9, @wiguy94, @ARobsBrewCrew, but it sounded like Black made major strides at 3B this past season.  Black didn't do as well defensively at AA, but at AAA his fielding % at 3B was .971; for reference, Nolan Arenado's fielding % in 2022 was .968 and Ke'Bryan Hayes was .972.  Black didn't play an inning at 2B this season, so I think that says that 2B isn't his immediate future.

2. I don't think that Counsell makes the same lineup decisions the last two months of the season when they are in a pennant chase versus the first two months of the season.  Plus, once Frelick was up, Taylor was back from injury and got hot, and Canha was acquired, there wasn't a need for Wiemer to start.  He needs the year in AAA that he was supposed to have this year.

3. Turang was a rookie and 5.2 years younger than league average.  I think he lost confidence the last two months of the season.  In 2022 in AAA he had a .772 OPS, where he was 4.4 years younger than league average.  Every stop in his career he's been significantly younger than league average.  At just 23 years old, he's still physically maturing.

1-Sure, check with all of them. They watch him more than Casually, BUT...the little I watched, he looked pretty fluid and comfortable there. He wasn't firing the ball over there like Machado 8 feet into foul territory, but he certainly looked like he could approximate Monasterio's defense. But this observation is kinda like someone who watches parts of ~10 Bucks games and then tells you how a players shot looks.

 

2-Wiemer has generally struggled to adjust to the next level. It's not an issue of bat speed. Not even sure it's an issue of recognition. He has a high effort swing, he's a little overly aggressive IMO. I think he'll be fine, but there's probably a ceiling on his BA. I'd like to see him back in the OF to start next year...but since there are not enough spots, start him in AAA, call him up when you have a need. 

 

3-NOTHING highlighted this more than his bases loaded at bat in game 1 that could have helped blow that game open(immediately before the Tyrone Taylor LD Double Play). 

He just looked like he was taking bad, defensive swings. 96, 96, 97, but little movement and all in the same location. I've repeatedly said he reminds me of Trea Turner(a poor mans Turner, but a similar type of player) and I would not give up on him yet. I'm not even close to giving up on him. I think he's still got a 3-5 year .265/350/.425 peak in him. A 15/30 type guy. 

But man, he looked SO far away from that this year, so I understand why people are more inclined to give up on him. 

[BrewerFan]

On 10/10/2023 at 7:50 AM, Underachiever said:

Good lord, if trading Josh Hader threw this club into a tizzy (allegedly), they might fold up and quit the season if Adames got traded at the deadline. He at least is likeable and the unquestioned team leader.

Yeah, it'll really suck when Adames leaves. The energy he brings, even when he's not playing...it's an intangible that you obviously can't quantify. 

 

I love how he plays(sans his swing at the first pitch no matter what approach). 

But he plays the game like a kid...because it IS a game and he's a 27 year old man living out his dream. It's great to get to watch him. I don't get the impression he's just dying to get to free agency. I'm sure he's excited, but it feels like it's Burnes priority and with Adames, it feels like it's kinda on the back burner. 

That may be an unfair take for the later, but...that's just me. 

[CheezWizHed]

On 10/6/2023 at 3:56 PM, TURBO said:

Who is this Winkler fella you keep mentioning?

I didn't mean to insult the Fonz...

[Underachiever]

On 10/12/2023 at 7:39 PM, BrewerFan said:

I don't get the impression he's just dying to get to free agency. I'm sure he's excited, but it feels like it's Burnes priority and with Adames, it feels like it's kinda on the back burner. 

That may be an unfair take for the later, but...that's just me. 

Anybody who just watched Woodruff possibly lose ~150 million dollars would be a fool not to be in a rush to free agency, despite their public persona. Position players don't have the specter of a career-ending injury on every play like pitchers do, so they can be a little looser. I don't let Adames' demeanor fool me into thinking he's not looking to get paid. He must think that keeping it loose makes him play better. If it didn't, he would modify his behavior.

[titanrick]

I simply cannot see the argument to have Burnes on this roster next year.  No one believes we can extend him.  There is zero chance he'll be in a Brewer uniform in 2025.  If we start next season with him in the rotation, then the best possible scenario is that we're out of the playoff race in mid-July.  But I would say it's likely we're still in the hunt come July.  Now you're either giving up on a promising "bite of the apple" and incurring all the damage of the Hader trade all over again or you're keeping him for an ill-fated attempt to win a WS next year and then you lose him for nothing.  I have to believe the pieces we could get for him this off-season would help us greatly in the next 4-5 years as the other talent matures.  Maybe we finally get to eat the whole apple?  The backlash from trading him will be significant but it's far worse if you deal him at the deadline in a year where we are still in the pennant race.

[SF70]

1 hour ago, titanrick said:

I simply cannot see the argument to have Burnes on this roster next year.  No one believes we can extend him.  There is zero chance he'll be in a Brewer uniform in 2025.  If we start next season with him in the rotation, then the best possible scenario is that we're out of the playoff race in mid-July.  But I would say it's likely we're still in the hunt come July.  Now you're either giving up on a promising "bite of the apple" and incurring all the damage of the Hader trade all over again or you're keeping him for an ill-fated attempt to win a WS next year and then you lose him for nothing.  I have to believe the pieces we could get for him this off-season would help us greatly in the next 4-5 years as the other talent matures.  Maybe we finally get to eat the whole apple?  The backlash from trading him will be significant but it's far worse if you deal him at the deadline in a year where we are still in the pennant race.

 

1 hour ago, titanrick said:

I simply cannot see the argument to have Burnes on this roster next year.  No one believes we can extend him.  There is zero chance he'll be in a Brewer uniform in 2025.  If we start next season with him in the rotation, then the best possible scenario is that we're out of the playoff race in mid-July.  But I would say it's likely we're still in the hunt come July.  Now you're either giving up on a promising "bite of the apple" and incurring all the damage of the Hader trade all over again or you're keeping him for an ill-fated attempt to win a WS next year and then you lose him for nothing.  I have to believe the pieces we could get for him this off-season would help us greatly in the next 4-5 years as the other talent matures.  Maybe we finally get to eat the whole apple?  The backlash from trading him will be significant but it's far worse if you deal him at the deadline in a year where we are still in the pennant race.

With a hold of Burnes & Adames this team is poised to win the central again next year. 

This franchise has a loaded farm with waves of prospects at every level of the system. 

They don’t need prospects added thru a Burnes trade. Same with Adames. The picks & pool money added to the ‘25 draft will make that class even better than last years class which was extraordinarily great.

 

[markedman5]

I don’t subscribe but it seems BA is quite high on Craig Yoho….as soon as next year 

 

[titanrick]

On 10/19/2023 at 11:51 AM, SF70 said:

 

With a hold of Burnes & Adames this team is poised to win the central again next year. 

This franchise has a loaded farm with waves of prospects at every level of the system. 

They don’t need prospects added thru a Burnes trade. Same with Adames. The picks & pool money added to the ‘25 draft will make that class even better than last years class which was extraordinarily great.

 

I'm kind of surprised by that answer.  We have all the prospects we need so let Burnes go after next year for nothing because he'll help us win an NL Central title next year?  Is this a common thought process among fans?  I don't think the front office is comfortable with losing Burnes for nothing.  Why didn't we take that approach with Hader then?

I'm on the fence with Adames.  He's such a part of the chemistry of this team and the return from trading him could be underwhelming compared to what we would get for Burnes.

[Brewcrew82]

1 hour ago, titanrick said:

I'm kind of surprised by that answer.  We have all the prospects we need so let Burnes go after next year for nothing because he'll help us win an NL Central title next year?  Is this a common thought process among fans?  I don't think the front office is comfortable with losing Burnes for nothing.  Why didn't we take that approach with Hader then?

I'm on the fence with Adames.  He's such a part of the chemistry of this team and the return from trading him could be underwhelming compared to what we would get for Burnes.

A comp pick is not “nothing”. Especially with this FO.

[SF70]

1 hour ago, titanrick said:

I'm kind of surprised by that answer.  We have all the prospects we need so let Burnes go after next year for nothing because he'll help us win an NL Central title next year?  Is this a common thought process among fans?  I don't think the front office is comfortable with losing Burnes for nothing.  Why didn't we take that approach with Hader then?

I'm on the fence with Adames.  He's such a part of the chemistry of this team and the return from trading him could be underwhelming compared to what we would get for Burnes.

Burnes performance for the Brewers next year plus the 33rd pick in the ‘25 draft plus the million plus in pool money vs the prospects received by trading him. Unless the team receives a big-league player back (extremely unlikely) in the trade, the team will be worse next year, and I don’t think that’s going to fly.

Hader was a 9th inning only pitcher for this team vs a 200 inning starting pitcher in Burnes = no comparison. Burnes is more valuable.

If the team trades a pitcher this offseason it should be Williams, because of the team’s incredible bullpen depth of impactful arms. They can get back to mixing and matching with their 5-headed monster of Uribe-Megill-Milner-Payamps-Peguero.

 

 

[markedman5]

Interesting…….so does this mean he is no longer subject to Arbitration? 
 

ps apparently he has the right to reject this and elect free agency
 

 

[nate82]

1 hour ago, markedman5 said:

Interesting…….so does this mean he is no longer subject to Arbitration? 
 

ps apparently he has the right to reject this and elect free agency
 

 

I believe he is still subject to arbitration for the Brewers unless he signs a contract (minor or major league contract).  It is probably why he went unclaimed being arbitration eligible.  Teams will probably want to get him in on a minor league contract.  I don't believe the Brewers will offer him arbitration and will try to trade him but will more than likely release him before they have to make the arbitration decision. 

[homer]

I don't know what this means

 

 

[Joseph Zarr]

56 minutes ago, homer said:

I don't know what this means

 

 

Ah, yes. It's that athlete posts eyes thing to keep everyone guessing.😅

[wibadgers23]

56 minutes ago, homer said:

I don't know what this means

 

 

These things usually end up being absolutely nothing but just for fun - maybe he’s signing an extension? Maybe he knows CC is coming back? Can’t be a trade or big free agent signing obviously.

[sveumrules]

1 hour ago, homer said:

I don't know what this means

 

 

Just watched Everything Everywhere All At Once for the first time.

[Weirdos19]

If CC is back, I think they bring back Santana. He loves switch hitters and our defense was top 5 after we got him. 
 

C: Contreras, Caratini

1B: Santana

2B: Lux

SS: Turang/Monasterio 

3B: Black/ Monasterio

OF: Frelick, Mitchell, Taylor, Canha, Weimer

DH: Yelich

SP: Peralta, Bobby Miller, Miley, Ashby, and Houser

RP: Rea, Uribe, Peguero, Milner, Williams, MeGill, Payamps, and Lauer

 

Brewers trade Burnes and Perkins to LA for Miller and Lux