Murphy it is

[owbc]

I don't know anything about Weeks' personality so I have nothing to say there. 

Just speculation, but it feels like Weeks could be a good mentor for Chourio given Rickie hit the majors at age 20 and had to overcome some early struggles to become a productive major leaguer. 

I also like that we don't throw a first time manager straight into the fire. We'll know in a few years if Rickie is manager material or not. 

 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

8 minutes ago, edfunderburk said:

I’d love to catch your enthusiasm … I always appreciate your posts & generally agree with what you share

To tell you the truth, I'm really not all that enthusiastic about the hire. It isn't exciting. It pretty much screams status quo. But status quo hasn't been all that bad when you really think about it. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

12 minutes ago, edfunderburk said:

This is a fan forum … I thought opinions were allowed

if I enjoy a meal & say - that is the BEST hamburger ever - evidence would be hard to provide … I simply hate the choice … both Murphy & Weeks … I’d like a clean break from Counsell rather than best buds in Murphy … I don’t think much of Weeks but I could be wrong … just simply a preference thing & a desire for something different 

If you were sick of Counsell, or disapproved of the job he did as manager, then this argument makes a lot of sense.  

[areacodes]

15 minutes ago, edfunderburk said:

This is a fan forum … I thought opinions were allowed.

Of course opinions are allowed - that is the whole point.

But typically when you have the following takes:

12 hours ago, edfunderburk said:

Murphy is the only name mentioned that made me cringe

12 hours ago, edfunderburk said:

I’m not a fan of Murphy as manager nor am I happy with Weeks as bench coach … yuck & yuck … there could have been no worse choices in my opinion 🤮

People are expecting to see some type of reasoning/logic behind your opinion.

[brewers888]

Avoiding Mattingly and Shildt is a victory of sorts so thats something.

[Brock Beauchamp]

1 minute ago, sveumrules said:

Maybe @Brock Beauchamp has stuff that old archived somewhere?

Searched posts with Counsell in the title and looks like the oldest hit was April 2021.

The posts still exist but I had to archive them because the posts table was slowing down the site. Once they were archived, they no longer appear in search queries but you can still get them from Google, as the pages are indexed. Just do something like "brewerfanatic.com + craig counsell" search and set the time range to the appropriate time period.

[liveforoctober]

39 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

He had a great eye at the plate which is a great fundamental to have but his poor defense makes me question the rest of his fundamental knowledge. 

LOL can you imagine:

"Hey Rickie, thanks for your interest in the position but we were watching your game tape and you always seemed to struggle making that throw from behind 2nd base so we don't think you can lead young men and help process situational baseball in real time. Have a great day."

[Turnbows Barber]

I'm a little surprised that there seem to be a fair number of people, here and elsewhere, with a fairly strong opinion on Weeks as the bench coach, both positive and negative.  Beyond what he did as a player I don't feel like there is much information out there to give any indication of how he will fare as a coach.  I don't know that his high on base percentage or struggles defensively say anything about how he will do as a coach.  His successes and failures, like most players, seem more likely to be due to his physical abilities rather than lack of understanding of how to play the game.  I wasn't worried when Counsell was hired as the manager that he was going to ruin Ryan Braun by forcing him into a using a goofy batting stance and I wouldn't be worried Weeks is going to turn Turang into a butcher defensively.  Whether he'll be good as a coach or not, I have no idea.

Murphy has been the right hand man of one of the best managers in baseball for the past several years, it shouldn't be that surprising that he would get a job as manager, whether with the Brewers or elsewhere.  How much of Counsell's success was helped by having Murphy as his bench coach?  I imagine the response to his hiring would be much more positive if Counsell had chosen to go anywhere but the Cubs.  The thing I'm most curious about is whether the hire is a sign of trades to come and the Brewers taking a step back in 2024 to build for the future or if they choose to keep the core together and try to compete in 2024.

[brewers888]

With the way that Counsell left his hometown team for a rival the last thing I wanted to do was give the job to his sidekick. A clean break from anything Counsell is the direction I would have gone but I won't get all that worked up over who the manager is when this team is taking a step back for the next few years anyway.

 

 

 

[brewers888]

47 minutes ago, homer said:

That's interesting. I didn't realize defensive acumen was a desirable trait in a coach.

Just the same way I wouldn't trust Rob Deer to be a hitting coach is how I feel about Weeks stressing defensive fundamentals when he never got it himself.

[Fear The Chorizo]

1 minute ago, brewers888 said:

Just the same way I wouldn't trust Rob Deer to be a hitting coach is how I feel about Weeks stressing defensive fundamentals when he never got it himself.

Didn't realize bench coach meant the guy in that position has to be the organizational expert on defense, either.  

For an organization that is currently full of mlb players who are pretty good defenders, it doesn't bother me one bit if their bench coach's m.o. as a player was getting on base and baserunning.

[MVP2110]

We have no idea what ideas or concepts Weeks has relayed in his time with the Front office. Counsell originally came from a front office background after his playing days and it's possible that Rickie has shown behind the scenes to be able to grasp things in a similar way that Counsell was. I think it's safe to assume he showed something within the organization to impress people. That certainly doesn't mean he'll succeed but there's like a reason he is getting this opportunity

[markedman5]

Yelich likes the hire

 

[CheezWizHed]

32 minutes ago, liveforoctober said:

LOL can you imagine:

"Hey Rickie, thanks for your interest in the position but we were watching your game tape and you always seemed to struggle making that throw from behind 2nd base so we don't think you can lead young men and help process situational baseball in real time. Have a great day."

Well, CC did have that odd batting stance, and we struggled hitting, so...

A few thoughts on Murphy:

1. Much of CC's success seemed to be in paying attention to advanced metrics to guide his decision making 
2. Second most important job of the manager is maintaining the team unity and locker room. 
3. I have no idea what sort of manager he is or will be, but hopefully he can do these 2 things.
4. It doesn't require retaining the most expensive manager in the league to do #1 and #2. Spend the money elsewhere. 
5. We are probably into a mini-rebuild around our younger position players, Murphy managing that seems low risk.  
6. If he can't handle #1 and #2, we can find someone in 2-3 years when those rookies and AA/AAA players are hitting their primes. 

 

[Jopal78]

If I recall correctly in his final year in Milwaukee,  Weeks was platooned at 2nd base against left handed pitching, the team asked him to play outfield and 1B because they were thin there and it would mean more ABs for Weeks, but he refused their request. Yet,  the very next season while trying to hang on to his career he did play OF for Seattle. 
 

Admittedly, who knows what Weeks has been up to since retirement, but   I’m still surprised that a “me first” move like that not only didn’t burn his bridge in Milwaukee, but also  apparently still qualifies him to be a team leader as bench coach. 

[MrTPlush]

1 hour ago, brewers888 said:

Just the same way I wouldn't trust Rob Deer to be a hitting coach is how I feel about Weeks stressing defensive fundamentals when he never got it himself.

Do you realize there is a whole dugout of coaches all focused on different things? Like Berry does baserunning. So if Carlos Gomez became manager the entire team wouldn't become idiots on the basepaths.

[MrTPlush]

15 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

If I recall correctly in his final year in Milwaukee,  Weeks was platooned at 2nd base against left handed pitching, the team asked him to play outfield and 1B because they were thin there and it would mean more ABs for Weeks, but he refused their request. Yet,  the very next season while trying to hang on to his career he did play OF for Seattle. 
 

Admittedly, who knows what Weeks has been up to since retirement, but   I’m still surprised that a “me first” move like that not only didn’t burn his bridge in Milwaukee, but also  apparently still qualifies him to be a team leader as bench coach. 

I always felt this was a little overblown. The denied request to play the OF always referred to was at like the start of May. Asking 10 year MLB veteran to experiment around the field in his FA year is just...a wild request. Especially considering he was always pretty bad at 2B despite playing there for over a decade. To think he was going to, midseason, be a passable 1B or OF was quite optimistic. Then he went elsewhere, played the OF....and was horrendous. So it kind of proved out to be a terrible idea in retrospect. Rickie Weeks actually said he would never play left field a good half decade before that anyway.

Of course...pretending every player isn't 'me first' is a fair argument in itself. 

[Thurston Fluff]

22 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

If I recall correctly in his final year in Milwaukee,  Weeks was platooned at 2nd base against left handed pitching, the team asked him to play outfield and 1B because they were thin there and it would mean more ABs for Weeks, but he refused their request. Yet,  the very next season while trying to hang on to his career he did play OF for Seattle. 
 

Admittedly, who knows what Weeks has been up to since retirement, but   I’m still surprised that a “me first” move like that not only didn’t burn his bridge in Milwaukee, but also  apparently still qualifies him to be a team leader as bench coach. 

He did refuse but context matters. The fact that he did so in Seattle is irrelevant as he had the entire off season and spring training knowing he had to learn a new position. The Brewer asked him to do it in the middle of the season. I think if he felt more comfortable on defense to begin with he might have tried. He dude struggled at the position he played his entire pro career. I can't imagine how bad he'd have looked playing an entirely new position on the fly in the middle of the season. Personally, I think it was kind of a "do you think you can do it?" sort of request and he said probably not.

[shanedog19]

I like the hire. From what I have read, the players like him, and he has a ton of managerial experience at multiple levels. If there is karma in the baseball world, we'll win a world series with Murphy and Counsell will struggle to make the playoffs with a completely different set of expectations and pressure.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Weeks was playing on legs that were about to fall apart in 2014 - I think he wound up blowing out a hammy that season to end his year early, anyways...so perhaps him sprinting all over the Miller Park outfield grass wasn't a good idea no matter where it came from.

Early in his career, the thought of moving Weeks to a corner OF spot was discussed before all the leg injuries occurred...but the Brewers already had to find a place to hide Braun in the outfield and keep his bat in the lineup - much to clancy's dismay

[MrTPlush]

2 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

but the Brewers already had to find a place to hide Braun in the outfield and keep his bat in the lineup - much to clancy's dismay

LOL - Brewer Forum Classic

[Underachiever]

2 hours ago, brewers888 said:

With the way that Counsell left his hometown team for a rival the last thing I wanted to do was give the job to his sidekick. A clean break from anything Counsell is the direction I would have gone but I won't get all that worked up over who the manager is when this team is taking a step back for the next few years anyway.

 

 

 

I thought the last thing you wanted was Mattingly. I believe you typed:

If this team hires Mattingly it will be due to Attanasio meddling so he could bring in a guy that he enjoyed watching as a player since he grew up a yankees fan. Out of all the names listed so far he is far and away the one that I want to avoid at all costs.

[Underachiever]

1 hour ago, MrTPlush said:

Do you realize there is a whole dugout of coaches all focused on different things? Like Berry does baserunning. So if Carlos Gomez became manager the entire team wouldn't become idiots on the basepaths.

And to add to that, Counsell never pitched, so there is no way he could manage a bullpen, right?

[liveforoctober]

1 hour ago, Jopal78 said:

If I recall correctly in his final year in Milwaukee,  Weeks was platooned at 2nd base against left handed pitching, the team asked him to play outfield and 1B because they were thin there and it would mean more ABs for Weeks, but he refused their request. Yet,  the very next season while trying to hang on to his career he did play OF for Seattle. 
 

Admittedly, who knows what Weeks has been up to since retirement, but   I’m still surprised that a “me first” move like that not only didn’t burn his bridge in Milwaukee, but also  apparently still qualifies him to be a team leader as bench coach. 

My assumption is the rumors of his 'fallout' were exaggerated and it falls into the category of "can't believe everything you hear".

[Jopal78]

39 minutes ago, Thurston Fluff said:

He did refuse but context matters. The fact that he did so in Seattle is irrelevant as he had the entire off season and spring training knowing he had to learn a new position. The Brewer asked him to do it in the middle of the season. I think if he felt more comfortable on defense to begin with he might have tried. He dude struggled at the position he played his entire pro career. I can't imagine how bad he'd have looked playing an entirely new position on the fly in the middle of the season. Personally, I think it was kind of a "do you think you can do it?" sort of request and he said probably not.

Perhaps but even so the other side of the coin is also true: the manager approached him regarding a need “the team” had, and tried to persuade Weeks into helping  “the team” by playing out of position and instead of being on the bench, yet Weeks said no. I assume the reason was because of his ego, or because of contract status, etc, at the expense of potentially helping the team win more games