Roster Overload

[Mr Southpaw]

On 2/7/2024 at 9:31 PM, wibadgers23 said:

My guess is they are shopping Mitchell around for a starting pitcher.

Maybe Cease?

[jay87shot]

12 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Water under the bridge, but after acquiring Hoskins & looking at the other roster hopefuls it makes me a little sick that we have Jake Bauers & not Jace Avina in the organization.

All of those earlier offseason moves look a little iffy or at least lacked hindsight/cohesive offseason plan. We didn't need to trade for Bauers or Clarke (or so it seems), Joe Ross went from a starter to having a rough path to make the 26 man and likewise for Colin Rea (he will pitch but he will blocking Gasser/Hall/Ashby/CRod quickly). If Haase is going to spend any time in AAA he isn't needed or will be battling Quero/Nola for AAA playing time. We even kind of block Oliver Dunn to a degree, not that his acquisition is similar to the 1/2 year deals early. 

 

[CheezWizHed]

On 2/12/2024 at 8:58 AM, jay87shot said:

All of those earlier offseason moves look a little iffy or at least lacked hindsight/cohesive offseason plan. We didn't need to trade for Bauers or Clarke (or so it seems), Joe Ross went from a starter to having a rough path to make the 26 man and likewise for Colin Rea (he will pitch but he will blocking Gasser/Hall/Ashby/CRod quickly). If Haase is going to spend any time in AAA he isn't needed or will be battling Quero/Nola for AAA playing time. We even kind of block Oliver Dunn to a degree, not that his acquisition is similar to the 1/2 year deals early. 

 

Most of the people you mentioned as blocked or having a rough path are pretty low end roster players anyway.  It isn't like plans roll out in linear fashion... you have to strike when an opportunity rolls you way.  Sometimes it is "wasted" as the player is released or sent to AAA, but how do you predict you can get player X three months after trading for player Y.  Better to have too many players than too many holes in the line-up.

ST will sort some things out, poor play, injuries, and trades still happen. 

[Ro Mueller]

The last time MLB teams saw them, Joey Wiemer couldn't hit and Garrett Mitchell wasn't healthy enough (or something) to be trusted on the postseason roster.

Maybe after they've shown their stuff in a few Spring Training games, some other club(s) will give a strong trade offer.

[CheezWizHed]

30 minutes ago, damuelle said:

The last time MLB teams saw them, Joey Wiemer couldn't hit and Garrett Mitchell wasn't healthy enough (or something) to be trusted on the postseason roster.

Maybe after they've shown their stuff in a few Spring Training games, some other club(s) will give a strong trade offer.

Most ST trades tend to be the roster filler types.  When the music stops and someone is left without a chair... but still mildly useful to someone...trade them for a bucket of balls so team B doesn't have to sift through the waiver wire.

If someone has concerns about Wiemer's bat and Mitchell's health, they will want to see them in real BB for a few months before giving up anything of value. 

[umphrey]

With the OF it seems like an easy call to send Wiemer to AAA to start the year and revisit at the trade deadline. Some of the other guys like Haase and the fringe SPs I think they can cut or send to AAA with little to no consequence (not sure how all the contracts are written). 1B/DH they have a little bit of a crunch but if it means cutting Bauers I won't be too upset about it. 

 

If the OF is too lefty heavy I don't really care in April it's more of a June/July problem. 

 

If they want to trade one of the young OF I don't think now is the time anyway, wait until July or next winter. I'm less concerned about getting a big return (which won't be that big right now anyway) and more concerned with keeping the right ones. 

[jay87shot]

35 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

Most of the people you mentioned as blocked or having a rough path are pretty low end roster players anyway.  It isn't like plans roll out in linear fashion... you have to strike when an opportunity rolls you way.  Sometimes it is "wasted" as the player is released or sent to AAA, but how do you predict you can get player X three months after trading for player Y.  Better to have too many players than too many holes in the line-up.

ST will sort some things out, poor play, injuries, and trades still happen. 

Sure but we aren't an organization who can just waste 2 or 3 top 30 prospects and 10 million dollars. Maybe you can't predict who specifically will be around come January/February but our front office had to know Burnes was gone and we would have money to add.  Depth is great but I feel like instead of Bauers, Clarke, Ross, Rae on 1 year (maybe) deals/control we could have used the same resources on guys like Oliver Dunn, Vinny Capra, or Bryan Hudson (more control, less of a problem in to send to AAA). I get that you want to take a good deal when one is available but it's not like we were robbing anyone getting those 4.

[CheezWizHed]

7 minutes ago, jay87shot said:

Sure but we aren't an organization who can just waste 2 or 3 top 30 prospects and 10 million dollars. Maybe you can't predict who specifically will be around come January/February but our front office had to know Burnes was gone and we would have money to add.  Depth is great but I feel like instead of Bauers, Clarke, Ross, Rae on 1 year (maybe) deals/control we could have used the same resources on guys like Oliver Dunn, Vinny Capra, or Bryan Hudson (more control, less of a problem in to send to AAA). I get that you want to take a good deal when one is available but it's not like we were robbing anyone getting those 4.

I'd be surprised to see Avina (#29), Sanchez (not ranked), Brady (not ranked), Devanney (not ranked), making much of a dent at the MLB level.  Only one was top 30... barely.  Avina is now ranked as #30 for the Yanks too. I know we grow attached to those guys (I still think about "Little Tree Komatsu" whenever I go past a construction site), but 99.9% of this guys are minor league roster fillers.

When we got Bauer, we were all hoping he was insurance for something better at 1B.  Looks like he should have room on the bench.

Joe Ross always felt like a this year's Rae or Houser.  Never a lock for the SP rotation given his injuries and lack of pitching for 2 years. Most likely headed to RP, but can provide SP depth.  Not bad at $1.75M.

Rae proved himself to be a decent 5th man in the rotation.  As a 4th, he gets a bit more shaky. $4.5M deal.

Clarke has an option year left, so you can guess where that is going. 

Oliver Dunn - didn't we actually get him? 😉

As for the $7-8M these guys are making... there is a minimum for MLB players and this wasn't much more than that.  I mean, we have to spend somewhere...

[Team Canada]

It's Bauers and Rea, not Bauer and Rae.

[CheezWizHed]

16 minutes ago, Team Canada said:

It's Bauers and Rea, not Bauer and Rae.

Good moderator activity: Please spell check and correct all posts. 😝

[DR28]

1 hour ago, Team Canada said:

It's Bauers and Rea, not Bauer and Rae.

And its Wiemer.... Not Weimer.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

On 2/13/2024 at 12:00 PM, damuelle said:

The last time MLB teams saw them, Joey Wiemer couldn't hit and Garrett Mitchell wasn't healthy enough (or something) to be trusted on the postseason roster.

Maybe after they've shown their stuff in a few Spring Training games, some other club(s) will give a strong trade offer.

Should there be any concern that there is no sign of Wiemer on the team's initial Spring Training depth chart? https://www.mlb.com/brewers/roster/depth-chart

I get that it's super early, but no-name roster filler guys like Chris Roller and Vinny Capra are listed.

[Ro Mueller]

22 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

Should there be any concern that there is no sign of Wiemer on the team's initial Spring Training depth chart? https://www.mlb.com/brewers/roster/depth-chart

I get that it's super early, but no-name roster filler guys like Chris Roller and Vinny Capra are listed.

Ashby and Ortiz are missing too, so I wouldn’t worry too much about it.

I wouldn’t want to be the staffer who omitted them though 🤦‍♂️

[RedStickBrew]

17 minutes ago, damuelle said:

Ashby and Ortiz are missing too, so I wouldn’t worry too much about it.

I wouldn’t want to be the staffer who omitted them though 🤦‍♂️

Don’t see Tyler Black either

[MNBrew]

Probably means they're all getting traded.  (Sarcasm fully intended.  Where they heck is the blue color choice thing here?)

Edit:  Found the blue thing.  Thanks, CheezWizHed.

[kestrel79]

Injuries happen. We had similar discussions last year, and look how thing shook out with injuries. It's good to have depth.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I think the interesting aspect of this year's Spring Training for MLB is the fact there are still a good # of free agents that haven't signed anywhere - and my assumption is most MLB organizations have their 40 man rosters full and are already dealing with a glut of minor league camp invites.  So, any noteable FA signing will need to have a corresponding trade or DFA just to get that guy into the mix.  We may actually be seeing this unfold with the Brewers and the apparent delay in finalizing the Sanchez contract.  There are also a bunch of guys still looking for camp invites/minor league deals because of it, too.

 

This is part of the reason why I think MLB should implement a rule to suspend major league free agency at the end of January each season (also, I think they should push the start of that free agency period to December 1 and not instantly after the World Series ends), and any FAs who haven't signed a contract would need to wait until the start of the regular season to do so.  There's no good reason prominent major league free agents should be spending 3+ months unsigned and have that process leak into Spring Training.

[Playing Catch]

On 2/16/2024 at 9:00 AM, Fear The Chorizo said:

This is part of the reason why I think MLB should implement a rule to suspend major league free agency at the end of January each season (also, I think they should push the start of that free agency period to December 1 and not instantly after the World Series ends), and any FAs who haven't signed a contract would need to wait until the start of the regular season to do so.  There's no good reason prominent major league free agents should be spending 3+ months unsigned and have that process leak into Spring Training.

I like this timetable. It's hard for me to imagine MLB not doing something to change this.

Manfred acknowledged that part of the desire to condense the timetable is to appeal to media attention. It's not ONLY for teams to try and force players' hands.

[Underachiever]

I disagree. Manfred stumbled on a reasonable-sounding, media-friendly reason for proposing the FA deadline. However, it is to force the players' hands. Saying a player cannot sign until the season starts is incredibly punitive. Ended the year injured? Now you have to sign a contract in December, perhaps before you can demonstrate that you are healthy, or wait until the season starts. Then, the team can pay you less because you won't be ready to start the season. Would MLB provide a Spring Training for these players who are not signed? I know they did it in 2021, but would they sustain it annually?

What does it do to trades? Is there a deadline for that as well? I think the only reason one would be in favor of the deadline is if one believed that the reason that some free agents haven't signed is completely because of the player and their agent. And there are those who already claim Mark A is cheap, this plays right into the owners' hands. 

[Playing Catch]

6 minutes ago, Underachiever said:

I disagree. Manfred stumbled on a reasonable-sounding, media-friendly reason for proposing the FA deadline. However, it is to force the players' hands. Saying a player cannot sign until the season starts is incredibly punitive. Ended the year injured? Now you have to sign a contract in December, before you can demonstrate that you are healthy, or wait until the season starts. Then, the team can pay you less because you won't be ready to start the season.

What does it do to trades? Is there a deadline for that as well? I think the only reason one would be in favor of the deadline is if one believed that the reason that some free agents haven't signed is completely because of the player and their agent. 

No question that forcing the player's hands is the primary motive -- and particularly putting pressure on them to lower their demands. But teams also have the obligation to put a team together. Cody Bellinger could be a big part of putting together a team. I'm sure that part of this deadline talk is that team execs are frustrated that they don't know, one way or the other, if they can plan on Bellinger being a part of the team. This has all sorts of trickle-down effects for roster construction. Does Team X need to make a trade in order to complete their outfield or not? Does Team Y need to sign a lesser player just to cover their bases?

So yes, it is "all about the money," but it really isn't. It's about GMs needing to make sure they can put a lineup out there on opening day. They would like to know if Bellinger is in that lineup or not, and if they can trade their CF prospect for pitching. The promotions staff need to know if they can order the Cody Bellinger bobbleheads, or if they need a bunch of Bellinger shirzees. Season ticket holders want to know what the team is going to look like before committing to buying.

It's perfectly reasonable to believe that none of that stuff really matters. And I'm not sure I care that much about it, either. But having a deadline does clean up a lot of those annoying details, I think I also disagree that players are the only negotiator that would feel pressure to change their number due to a deadline. I'm not convinced that a deadline doesn't make Brian Cashman up his bid on the last day simply to have the assurance of knowing who's on the team and ready for the season.

[Outlander]

The MLB Union is strong, no reason to think just ending free agency in MLB would ever happen.

[CheezWizHed]

On 2/15/2024 at 10:58 PM, MNBrew said:

Probably means they're all getting traded.  (Sarcasm fully intended.  Where they heck is the blue color choice thing here?)

Its easy to find!

[TURBO]

2 hours ago, Underachiever said:

I disagree. Manfred stumbled on a reasonable-sounding, media-friendly reason for proposing the FA deadline. However, it is to force the players' hands. Saying a player cannot sign until the season starts is incredibly punitive. Ended the year injured? Now you have to sign a contract in December, perhaps before you can demonstrate that you are healthy, or wait until the season starts. Then, the team can pay you less because you won't be ready to start the season. Would MLB provide a Spring Training for these players who are not signed? I know they did it in 2021, but would they sustain it annually?

What does it do to trades? Is there a deadline for that as well? I think the only reason one would be in favor of the deadline is if one believed that the reason that some free agents haven't signed is completely because of the player and their agent. And there are those who already claim Mark A is cheap, this plays right into the owners' hands. 

 

[MNBrew]

7 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

Its easy to find!

Thanks!

[Jastro]