2024-25 Milwaukee Bucks thread

[Joseph Zarr]

I've watched enough Bucks basketball in my life to know absolutely no lead is safe under two minutes. None. Zilch. Zero. 7 points? That's obviously not enough and if you thought other wise, no offense, you were fooling yourself. This is the Bucks. An incredible if not predictable way to end their season - I did predict a 4-1 series loss and, predictably as I also, well, predicted Doctor 'Glenn' Rivers made no starting line-up adjustments til way too deep in the series. The sun rises and the sun sets sets. I wonder who Glenn will blame this time? Surely, the injuries will be his fall back again, right?  I still go back to: they traded a franchise Legend and their best upside prospect for two weeks of defensible 'Kooooooooooooooz' play before 'The Koooooooz' reverted to the insanely inefficient; unintelligent; truly poor NBA basketball player he is. The Bucks targeted him for two seasons. Mind-blowing. I'd extend that GM, if I were an organization. Just not an intelligent basketball organization in, really, any facet. I'll always love the Buckaroos because I'm a nostalgic schlepp. But, man, they are just not an easy watch and they really make it hard to care about the organization. I'm grateful I watched the Mudcats last night. 😅 

 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

1 hour ago, Joseph Zarr said:

I've watched enough Bucks basketball in my life to know absolutely no lead is safe under two minutes. None. Zilch. Zero. 7 points? That's obviously not enough and if you thought other wise, no offense, you were fooling yourself. This is the Bucks. An incredible if not predictable way to end their season - I did predict a 4-1 series loss and, predictably as I also, well, predicted Doctor 'Glenn' Rivers made no starting line-up adjustments til way too deep in the series. The sun rises and the sun sets sets. I wonder who Glenn will blame this time? Surely, the injuries will be his fall back again, right?  I still go back to: they traded a franchise Legend and their best upside prospect for two weeks of defensible 'Kooooooooooooooz' play before 'The Koooooooz' reverted to the insanely inefficient; unintelligent; truly poor NBA basketball player he is. The Bucks targeted him for two seasons. Mind-blowing. I'd extend that GM, if I were an organization. Just not an intelligent basketball organization in, really, any facet. I'll always love the Buckaroos because I'm a nostalgic schlepp. But, man, they are just not an easy watch and they really make it hard to care about the organization. I'm grateful I watched the Mudcats last night. 😅 

 

Two minutes? It was 35 seconds. That absolutely should be safe.

Kuzma sucks, you're right. But Middleton is cooked. This series was not a Middleton away from winnable.

[Joseph Zarr]

1 hour ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

Two minutes? It was 35 seconds. That absolutely should be safe.

Kuzma sucks, you're right. But Middleton is cooked. This series was not a Middleton away from winnable.

Well, contrary to what you are asserting here, this Bucks squad says "Hold muh beer, Snappah! We got this!"

I'm not talking about a series win with Khash. I'm talking about the organizational dysfunction and discombobulated muddied org vision. Ergo: They tried for two seasons to acquire the least inefficient starting player in the League as if it was some type of meaningful smart maneuver to replace an oft-injured aging Legend with someone who can't handle the ball; can't shoot the ball consistently (from anywhere); and is an unintelligent basketball player. To do so, they sweetened the deal with their best clear upside young talent? And, publicly, they purport it wasn't about the 2nd Apron? It's all absurdist classic Bucks org execution in every facet. 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Every move they have made beginning with firing Bud and since, has been a desperation move. 

Bud should have been kept if they were going to land Dame. I don't know that they win anything, but I am nearly 100% certain it goes better than it has. Kuzma was a classic "Well we have to do something." 

I am indifferent as to trading Middleton. His career is effectively over. He can be a 15mpg guy for someone somewhere, but he's not a star anymore. And everyone knows they are desperate, thus likely why they had to toss in something to get...Kuzma 🤮

 

[Samurai Bucky]

6 hours ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

Again, there was NO PLAY drawn up at the end of regulation. It was pass to Giannis and let him do whatever. It was idiotic as a) he was double teamed b) if he gets fouled, he can't shoot c) someone was open by means of said double team.

 

Much like what Wisconsin did in the NCAA tournament.

[Samurai Bucky]

2 hours ago, Joseph Zarr said:

Well, contrary to what you are asserting here, this Bucks squad says "Hold muh beer, Snappah! We got this!"

I'm not talking about a series win with Khash. I'm talking about the organizational dysfunction and discombobulated muddied org vision. Ergo: They tried for two seasons to acquire the least inefficient starting player in the League as if it was some type of meaningful smart maneuver to replace an oft-injured aging Legend with someone who can't handle the ball; can't shoot the ball consistently (from anywhere); and is an unintelligent basketball player. To do so, they sweetened the deal with their best clear upside young talent? And, publicly, they purport it wasn't about the 2nd Apron? It's all absurdist classic Bucks org execution in every facet. 

How many games was Middleton on the floor this year before being traded?  Of those games, how many was he contributing?  Not many.

Middleton needed to go.  That was a good decision.  Trying to get Kuze was probably because nobody else would trade for Middleton.  This is the cost of holding onto legends too long.  With that said, Giannis is a legend and has a lot of years left in him -- he should not be traded.

[HarryDoyle]

[adambr2]

[BrewerFan]

3 hours ago, Samurai Bucky said:

How many games was Middleton on the floor this year before being traded?  Of those games, how many was he contributing?  Not many.

Middleton needed to go.  That was a good decision.  Trying to get Kuze was probably because nobody else would trade for Middleton.  This is the cost of holding onto legends too long.  With that said, Giannis is a legend and has a lot of years left in him -- he should not be traded.

I just want the guy traded because I'm a huge fan of his and...I don't want to see him squander the rest of his historically great career in Milwaukee. 

I think if the Bucks could re-do that trade, they do not make it again. They lost AJ Johnson who looks VERY promising and they got back Kuzma...who should be viewed in the same light as a Gary Trent Jr. A guy who can score at times, but not relied upon. 

Their only chance to win in the playoffs this year was Middleton playing like he did last year in the playoffs and a healthy Giannis and Dame...

Instead they chose to try and regroup for next year(at least IMO) and those plans backfired when Dame tore his Achilles and now we likely don't see him in a Bucks uniform again or maybe we see him at 36 making nearly 60M. 

 

I'm alright with it though. Could have done things differently, but there's a snowball effect. I thought the Jrue trade was a good one. I thought the Dame trade was a good one. I thought they did a terrible job developing young talent like Beauchamp or whomever it may be and then when they draft young guys to fit a particular role like Jackson Jr, they don't use them in that role, even when they appear to be well suited to it. 

 

Off-season, sign and trade Lopez and Portis if you can. I think it's reasonable you can get a pick for each and teams that can really use them may not have cap space(though I think Brook is a great fit in SA). 

I'd mostly just be looking to acquire as many young players and picks as possible after that. Porter Jr is 22. He's...alright. He could have developed into a good #3/4 option... but now he's your #2? I just don't see the point in prolonging the inevitable. 

 

It was a good team. It was entertaining...mostly(I mean, the next graphic is infuriating)...but old boy has been sick the last couple years and now he's just suffering. Gotta take him out back and do the humane thing. 

[BrewerFan]

1 hour ago, adambr2 said:

Yeah, this oddly just makes me even more ok with trading him. 

Hey, maybe Portland wants him. They had a talented young group...and then we can at least get our picks back. 

I don't actually expect that to happen, but...I also don't see an avenue where the Bucks are a contender during his career again...aside from extraordinary luck.  So...do we just watch him pass up milestone after milestone on a ~45 win team?

[sveumrules]

After losing the Finals at age 27 in 2006, Dirk’s Mavs went out in R1, R1, R2, and R1 before finally winning it all at age 32 in 2011.

Next couple seasons look pretty bleak with Dame out, then coming back off major injury at age 36, but who knows how everything else will look two years from now.

The “smart” move might be to trade Giannis for the best possible return of young players and picks to get a head start on the next 50 year rebuild, but sounds like Giannis doesn’t want to go anywhere and I’d guess Horst doesn’t want to be known as the guy who traded him away (& the Bucks certainly aren’t smart).

No matter what, we’re hoping for a miracle either way, so which one would you rather dream on?

A legit contender somehow coalesces around Giannis over the next two to four years to make one more magical run?

Or we somehow land another superstar with loyalty to Milwaukee beyond his first extension & assemble a legit contender around them?

The Bucks FO has a way better track record acquiring veterans than they do drafting, so I’m cool riding with Giannis until the wheels fall off.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

As a VERY casual Bucks observer, I feel like losing Jrue for Dame was just a really underrated mistake of that trade. An understandable mistake, but Jrue's defense is just so, so valuable, and Dame is so utterly limited on that side of the floor.

I don't know what I'd do if I'm the Bucks. Honestly, the 2021 title feels like they get a free pass for at least a decade, even with a superstar like Giannis locked in. So, I'd probably just run it back and try to surround Dame and Giannis with grinder bigs and 3-and-D guards and see what happens. 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

2 hours ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

As a VERY casual Bucks observer, I feel like losing Jrue for Dame was just a really underrated mistake of that trade. An understandable mistake, but Jrue's defense is just so, so valuable, and Dame is so utterly limited on that side of the floor.

I don't know what I'd do if I'm the Bucks. Honestly, the 2021 title feels like they get a free pass for at least a decade, even with a superstar like Giannis locked in. So, I'd probably just run it back and try to surround Dame and Giannis with grinder bigs and 3-and-D guards and see what happens. 

Jrue was severely limited offensively. He was capable of your 38-point game here and there but he would go 4-of-18 all the time. This dynamic worked when Middleton was healthy because he was someone who could generate his own offense. Once Middleton was cooked and never there (see 2022 East Semi), it was basically what you have today. 

It's a horse a piece on different ends of the floor. Giannis and Dame don't work because both need the ball in their hands; Giannis and Jrue don't work because neither one is a reliable jump shooter. I'm aware Giannis added that a bit to his game this year, but I mean once he's walled off and draws too much defense, Jrue isn't the guy to take any heat off, at least not consistently enough. Of all the things to blame the Bucks for, this isn't one of them IMO. It was obvious they needed more offensive star power. They swung for the fence, but they missed.

He has a dream setup in Boston where he doesn't need to be relied upon to score pretty much at all, but is still highly effective.

[GAME05]

They needed more offense and it was Jrue instead of Middleton because it's tough to trade Giannis' friend when you're in the middle of trying to sign him to an extension. After that it's just trading the long-term for the short-term and it just never worked out. Doesn't seem so different than what a lot of teams have done.

Giannis has an interesting decision. Winning pretty well means going somewhere else, but retire with Milwaukee and he could well be regarded as the greatest franchise player (Kareem wasn't here all that long). Go to the Knicks and you're forgotten as soon as you retire, especially if you don't win a Ring.

[BrewerFan]

On 5/2/2025 at 6:38 PM, GAME05 said:

They needed more offense and it was Jrue instead of Middleton because it's tough to trade Giannis' friend when you're in the middle of trying to sign him to an extension. After that it's just trading the long-term for the short-term and it just never worked out. Doesn't seem so different than what a lot of teams have done.

Giannis has an interesting decision. Winning pretty well means going somewhere else, but retire with Milwaukee and he could well be regarded as the greatest franchise player (Kareem wasn't here all that long). Go to the Knicks and you're forgotten as soon as you retire, especially if you don't win a Ring.

I don't think they could have traded Middleton for Dame. I thought they looked into that and tried and were unable to. Portland wasn't interested...or the numbers didn't match up.

And Portland just didn't want him. Jrue was a good, not great player to get back and they were able to flip him for more than Middleton.

I believe they did what they could to paid Jrue and Dame. And I don't think it ends up making that much of a difference. Middleton...WAS a stud in the post-season last year.

[jay87shot]

The biggest mis-step was trading for and giving a ton of playing time to old bums. Serge Ibaka, Jae Crowder, Wes Matthews, George Hill, Goran Dragic, Joe Ingles among others striped us of numerous 2nd round picks and ate up minutes young developing guys should have been playing. Look at how much better this team was playing fast with KPJ, Green, and Rollins. We should have a couple Payton Pritchard/Naz Ried style players instead of those old wasted bums.

[patrickgpe]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45109801/sources-giannis-antetokounmpo-explore-best-fits-milwaukee

This obviously is no surprise and was expected once Dame was lost for 25-26. If he wants to go, he has earned that. But it must be noted that the bucks have done everything he wanted and now have no draft capital for the rest of this decade, is over the salary cap and have a 40 million dollar guy out for the year. Also the lack of championships can partially be attributed to Giannis being hurt almost every playoff. 

I'd prefer to keep him. But if he wants to go and the bucks get a bunch of picks back and a few players, it wouldn't be the worst thing. 

[sveumrules]

20 minutes ago, patrickgpe said:

I'd prefer to keep him. But if he wants to go and the bucks get a bunch of picks back and a few players, it wouldn't be the worst thing. 

My personal read on the situation is that Giannis likes Milwaukee, doesn't really want to leave, and would rather be a One Franchise Guy than ask for a trade.

If Giannis doesn't explicitly ask to be traded, I don't think the front office or owners will pursue it.

None of this will stop the media from trying to will it into existence though.

[patrickgpe]

@sveumrules I hope so. I don't think its a coincidence that the draft lottery is tonight and this Shams report came out today.

I can see him realizing that circumstances have changed over the last year and getting out of the first round will be very difficult next year as well. 

[GAME05]

Heck, are they even a playoff team next year? Giannis will get quadruple-teamed.

[patrickgpe]

36 minutes ago, GAME05 said:

Heck, are they even a playoff team next year? Giannis will get quadruple-teamed.

there are a lot of horrible teams in the east. the difference between being the last team in the play-in tournament and being the first team out was 9! games. 

[owbc]

Id love to see OKC get eliminated by Denver. Get them real nice and desperate to make a trade. 

[patrickgpe]

IF the bucks have to do it, the spurs and thunder make sense. Also I would think those cities would be appealing to GA, rather than a mega market. 

[sveumrules]

3 minutes ago, owbc said:

Id love to see OKC get eliminated by Denver. Get them real nice and desperate to make a trade. 

Not me. Obviously SGA isn't going anywhere, and don't have much interest in Chet Holmgren with his body type.

Jalen Williams is their only young piece I'd have interest in as a headliner. $6.6M next year on the last year of his rookie deal so not sure how that would work with cap stuff. Maybe he could be part of the package as a sign & trade to eat into more of Giannis $54M number?

Main salaries they have for matching purposes are Hartenstein ($28.5M), Caruso ($18.2M) and Dort ($17.2M) then its younger guys like Isaiah Joe ($12.3M), Aaron Wiggins ($9.7M), or Cason Wallace ($5.2M), none of whom are really all that exciting to me in a Giannis package.

They have a ton of first round picks they could deal, but none of them really project to be valuable picks with high lotto odds. Best ones are probably Philly 2025 protected 1-6 then 1-4 protection for 2026/27, Utah 2026 protected 1-8 or maybe Dallas 2028 swap no protections.

Their best deal is probably something like an extended Williams, Hartenstein, Wallace and then whichever four or five first round picks the Bucks think have the most potential value.

[HarryDoyle]

With the Spurs getting the #2 overall pick in the draft along with another lottery pick, they become the favorites in the potential Giannis sweepstakes.