Labor Discussion - Salary Cap, Local TV Sharing

[jesusoftheapes]

5 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

Yes, I understand how referrals work work. However when players are owed tens of millions of dollars starting 10 years years down the road, teams aren’t putting that money away now it defeats the purpose of deferring it in the first place. Secondly a dollar 10 years or more from now will be worth less. That is why the Bonilla situation is unique he’s been getting interest. Strasburg is the only guy recently that deferred with interest. The point remains teams the traffic heavily and deferrals are tying their hands in their future over how revenue can be redistributed. 

 

No, the owners in ‘94 proposed to share all local revenue, have a salary cap, eliminate arbitration with FA after 4-5 years. The players rejected the proposal and demanded a floor as well. This was primarily due to distrust of owners like Selig who was acting commissioner.  I certainly don’t blame the players I’m sure owners like Selig would have screwed them if they agreed to a cap without floor.
 

However, that was the last real opportunity. Now, while it sounds great to Brewer or Royals fans, such a proposal would never even get to the players to consider because there are probably 20 of the teams who will never agree to share the local revenue.  It doesn’t make sense for them to give more horses a shot at the flag simply to narrow their gap with the lead horse. 

  This guy ruined the entire 2025 season before it even started.    I hate everything now.  He literally spoiled the entire party.   The guy is a total fool and I did not think this 2 days ago until he spoke the quiet part out loud.    I post this topic before anyone else.   They pulled my post because I put W and T and F in the title putting it behind the other post.   Sorry it confused so many people. I am trying to pull them all now but it made me upset and I use the internet to vent.   Do not take it personal because I swear am not yelling at anyone.   Well anyone but the owner. 

Sorry I am still venting. 

[markedman5]

If he ruined the season for you already then you really shouldn’t watch the games or post about the team. Not good for your mental health to spend time on something that makes you miserable.

Hope you find enjoyment in some other hobby.

I personally can’t wait for the season to start.

[MVP2110]

28 minutes ago, jesusoftheapes said:

making excuses for inexcusable is why this team never wins.    He is sucking the money right out of our wallets and telling us to like it.  Sorry he did not misspeak he said exactly what he meant and it means the Brewers are here just to lose for other teams accomplished seasons .   I did not just "misread"  and he said it VERY proud and loud and meant exactly what he said.  Screw any professional team who thinks winning Championships is not the goal and any fanbase dumb enough to cheer for a team who is there to take up space.     Sorry I am sick to death of losing!   If they are not serious about winning why should I be?

 

It was not a misquote, It was not wrong speak,   He said the exact thing he meant to say and he really believed it when he said it. Stop making excuses for bad ideas!  That is how we got  to this point without winning anything between 1969 and today. 

I mean I literally posted the full quote for you to read. There is a reason of all the reporters that were there Nightengale was the only one to take that little snippet out of context. 

[BallFour]

In the Rosenthal article it mentions that a front office member on the basis of anonymity that they were asked to seriously consider getting rid of Civale and Payamps because of their salaries.

1) Good luck thinking we are making some sort of add to our roster before the season starts

2) How long can we maintain our competitive advantage in the front office? You have to think it catches up to us at some point. I have no basis for it but I worry about Arnold getting a Stearns like offer from somewhere else.

[TURBO]

49 minutes ago, jesusoftheapes said:

I love when someone chooses not to believe something that has been said in truth they pretend it's not really what the person who said it meant.  Just for their own reasons and not because they actually know anything but it makes them feel better about something bad.   That is you .   I have read the quote and watched the man say the words in the past because it is actually what he thinks and has been saying stupid garbage like this for a long long time.    He seriously believes this.  He does not believe winning World Series is part of his job nor is it really the season goal of this franchise which is why is never ever wins and celebrates division titles like the already won the entire season.    To Matt A winning divisions is the goal and MAKING MILLIONS off FANS who want Series wins and nothing more.      He said what he meant and people need to stop pretending rich people are serious about anything besides making more money for themselves and they do not need world series to make that money as long as they have a team that almost makes it each season to string fans along.     

 

No I do not care about the after excuses.  I just don't.  This guy ruined the entire 2025 season before it even started.    I hate everything now.  He literally spoiled the entire party.   The guy is a total fool and I did not think this 2 days ago. .   

Sorry I am still venting. 

Seriously, get some help on perspective in your life.  Seriously.

Your ups and downs on this board are truly amazing.

[TURBO]

21 minutes ago, BallFour said:

I have no basis for it but I worry about Arnold getting a Stearns like offer from somewhere else.

Oh, that's inevitable.  Arnold will be leaving, it's just a matter of when.

[markedman5]

Not local TV but thought people would be interested 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6149921/2025/02/20/mlb-espn-opt-out-tv-deal/

[Fear The Chorizo]

The amount of revenue the Dodgers are getting from Japan and Asia for basically having all their best players is most likely comparable to their annual stateside TV deal...they are the farthest team from going bankrupt no matter what changes get made to a future CBA.

 

They are like a cartel running out of room to put all the money coming in

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

6 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

Partially but not entirely. The Dodgers now have one billion dollars in deferred salary guarantees which pretty much means they can never be forced to change their revenue streams as any redistribution would likely bankrupt them with those guarantees on the books. 

But they’re not anlone deferrals are the hip thing to do in baseball lately with. The Mets have over 75 million dollars in guaranteed deferrals,  Bregman has 60 million deferred. Burnes has 64 million deferred, etc etc. 

Back in ‘94 was the time to make changes when the players would have agreed to a salary cap if the owners would have agreed to a floor. That ship has sailed, and in a way many teams have protected their revenue streams by deferring guaranteed money. MLB won’t be able to change the system and interfere with existing contractual obligations.

The Dodgers aren't the only team with deferrerals, yes, but they are the only team with the quantity of deferrals they currently have, headlined by a guy getting paid $2m of his $70M salary now and still fielding a real dollars 2025 payroll over $300M.

The time to make changes was 1994, yes...but the next time to make changes is this upcoming cba negotiation.  And I'd be just fine with a missed season or two to get the right changes made.  I'd also add that it would be pretty easy as part of the next cba round for mlb to reimburse deferred money deals to teams worried about how they'd find a way to ever finance them ( in the dodgers' case im pretty sure theyd be able to find the spare change layong around), provided the deferred contract garbage ends in the new cba.  

[jesusoftheapes]

3 hours ago, TURBO said:

Oh, that's inevitable.  Arnold will be leaving, it's just a matter of when.

that is the case with every person in Blue on the sidelines or in the Managers group .  Baseball is movement. 

[jesusoftheapes]

4 hours ago, markedman5 said:

If he ruined the season for you already then you really shouldn’t watch the games or post about the team. Not good for your mental health to spend time on something that makes you miserable.

Hope you find enjoyment in some other hobby.

I personally can’t wait for the season to start.

Yeah why not be happy the owner of the team said winning World Series Games is not in his job description .     I don't know about you but I am sick to death of losing.   If you are not I guess you are happy with failure and I am not at this point.     This team has not won anything real EVER and yet we keep funding the enterprise.    Investing in a game that has over 160 games in a summer takes commitment and belief the team is trying to win it all .  Matt just told everyone they are not trying to win those type of games and are really only here to entertain the kids.     Sorry if that is okay for you but it is not for me. 

[jesusoftheapes]

4 hours ago, markedman5 said:

If he ruined the season for you already then you really shouldn’t watch the games or post about the team. Not good for your mental health to spend time on something that makes you miserable.

Hope you find enjoyment in some other hobby.

I personally can’t wait for the season to start.

Two days ago I had a totally different view of this.   I thought they were managed to really break through the money teams and had something cooking here to actually change the league for the better by stepping up and pushing back on money.    The guy who runs the team just told anyone who thought this that is not really going to ever happen here.   I am sorry but that is a kick in the gut and if you do not see why that could sully a season before it starts you are way to comfortable with losing all the time.     

 

I was the most positive fan on the web right up and until the owner of the Brewers openly admitted he was stringing us all along and really is not worried about ever winning any World Series here.  That offended me because I spend THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of dollars following this team each year.     I have been since I was 15 years old because I simply want to win a World Series here.         

 I mean he could have said almost anything else and it would not have had that effect but for a franchise that has never actually won anything ever saying what he said is CRAZY.  It should offend you as it did me  because it is US who are funding this entire thing and if he is not taking winning seriously why should we? 

 

To call me mentally ill because what he said took the wind out of my sails however is not okay either ...  but come on man.   Are you serious?  The Brewers did not make me miserable in fact I have never been more juiced up in any offseason in my life as I was this entire winter.    Read what I have posted all offseason if you doubt it... I am not the harp on the Brewers guy.  I believe in the team.    I love the group of player here and yet when Matt A said what he said it felt like getting punched in the stomach.    Like everything I am fighting for or working to build within the fanbase is nothing but a waste of time.     If you read anything I posted this offseason my message has been "Brewers first" I have gone to battle with so many fans who were voicing the problems they saw with the team not spending money and the typical complaints to try to get all the fans to BELIEVE this championship thing is possible.    What I heard is the owner of the franchise tell me in no uncertain words it is not and that all I was trying to accomplish with the fanbase was a huge waste of my time and attending 100 games per year is also a waste of my money because what I am waiting for probably won't ever happen.             

But for someone to judge how I feel about it after what I have invested in this team in my lifetime however is kinda a jerk position to take from your end if you ask me though.    I want nothing more than to win a Series here before I am dead like Bob Uecker who lived his entire life for this baseball team and never got to see it win .          I am sick of losing man and what he said was more of an acceptance of losing and that makes me sad.      I cannot tell you why without ranting but I can tell you it bothered me and I should not have to be  accused of mental illness because the Franchise let the fans down before the season even started.    

I cannot make you understand my position if you do not see it this way. If you are okay with constantly losing that is something I cannot swallow the same way you can. I am sorry if that is offensive to you but it does NOT make me mentally ill!       

 I do not care if the Brewers spend more money as long as they have another plan in place to win championships despite the lack of spending.  I thought they were doing that exact thing and was doing my best in reporting that for years in the face of RAGE by other Brewers fans who have simply given up on this franchise.   I believed this team was building something well beyond what we had ever made here with the current group they have in Farms and in the MLB.     I believed in this roster more than any Brewers roster ever fielded in my lifetime.   I still do think highly of the players and Management even the GM Matt Arnold is someone I really believe is top notch.        I believed this team was poised for big things until two days ago when the team owner told us all that he wants us to keep going to games but getting to a World Series probably won't be happening here.      I have never had the wind kicked out of me by a owners words like that.   I am sorry that you do not understand why this is a big moment in the history of Brewers baseball but being told "it is never going to happen" by the guy who owns the team was a lot to take for this guy.   But again the fact I now feel this way does not make me mentally ill .     

[SF70]

I could care less about what Attanasio says. He’s already done great by me with his hires, and investments in infrastructure.

His spending is in line with other comparable revenue teams and he listens to what the FO wants to do and doesn’t interfere. 

I actually agreed with most of what you posted prior to the last couple of days, oh well.

Attanasio has already done what he needed to do for this team to eventually win a WS by hiring Stearns and retaining Arnold. Attanasio’s words yesterday mean nothing regarding the future of this team. 

The team’s exciting young core is still there. The powerhouse infrastructure, still there. The best young farm in the game, still there. Nothing is going to stop this team from their true destiny — winning a a WS or 2, along with an extended period of time as baseball’s only small-market dynasty.

[markedman5]

He never said “ it’s never going to happen” lol

you’re just making stuff up now.

and if you’re “ sick of losing” I can think of many other teams that have done a much worse job than the brewers(with much greater resources) the last 7-10 years than the brewers.

It’s not just about the playoffs for most of us…..we understand what a crap shoot that is.

 

He has done a great job of competing at a high level in the smallest market in the majors…….if that’s not enough for you then it’s not enough.

go root for the Dodgers or the Yankees…….you will be happier.

[jesusoftheapes]

4 hours ago, TURBO said:

Seriously, get some help on perspective in your life.  Seriously.

Your ups and downs on this board are truly amazing.

I reacted to the comment and It is not just me . The owner said the team is not serious about winning championships.  It threw my entire view of all things Brewers into tailspin and I am just dealing with the backlash of the gravity of what he said. I am sorry.   Why are we pretending this is just me?   It is mainstream news.   The fact it is not being talked about more is what is mind blowing. Had any sports coach said this it would be the top sports story everywhere.   The fact an owner said the team he runs is not serious about winning is what I am reacting to.  I feel cheated.   They took everything away in one sentence.   I wanted nothing more than to believe this team has something up its sleeve to get past the $ clubs with player development and smart moves.     Then the guy who owns the team said"FOOLED YOU." and I am just reacting to that. 

I wanted to bring the fanbase together this season around a great young ball club.  It felt that the owner took that away from me before spring training games.      I really feel strongly about this.  The only thing a Owner cannot say about any franchise is that they are not serious about winning Championships.    It's like going to a fully clothed strip club and wondering when the dancers are going to start the show that will never begin.   

 

I swear I am not even trying to be offensive.  What was said is no small thing in 2025 when the idea of competitive professional sports has never been more in question.      If it was 20 years ago this guy would have been on every sports show being bashed for saying something so defeatist.   It really should matter to everyone who supports this team with their wallets that they are actually trying to win despite the odds against it.    If they are not this is just a show.   

 

I am really not trying to fight anyone here nor am I trying to divide any of the fanbase.  I felt let down by the guy who runs my baseball team in a way I have never felt after a statement by any sports CEO.     Im sorry it offends you.    I wish he had not said it but saying I am wrong for bringing up how crazy what the man said is and reacting to it is NOT on me.   I am just reacting to the news.     This is new for me too and I wish he had not said that so I could keep stumping the roster I believed was really building to a goal of winning it all.     Why don't you feel this way?   Why does this not bother you as it does the thousands of people currently talking about this online across America for the last 2 days since what he said made the news? 

This is a real topic that needs conversation because what he says has insane consequences that I do not think you are grasping right now and even if you believe I need to "get help" because of what that man said .   He made this situation .  You may not think it is a big deal but there are tons of media outlets that are printing the opposite opinion you are taking there and I am NOT crazy for being one who is upset by it all.   

 

I AM SICK OF ALWAYS LOSING ! Why aren't you?           

https://www.msn.com/en-in/sports/mlb/brewers-ownership-straight-up-admits-they-re-not-serious-about-bringing-a-title-to-milwaukee/ar-AA1zo7NO?cvid=4830b4b5f9a146dc93df1216d2f4ba59&ocid=winp2fptaskbar

[jesusoftheapes]

13 minutes ago, SF70 said:

I could care less about what Attanasio says. He’s already done great by me with his hires, and investments in infrastructure.

His spending is in line with other comparable revenue teams and he listens to what the FO wants to do and doesn’t interfere. 

I actually agreed with most of what you posted prior to the last couple of days, oh well.

Attanasio has already done what he needed to do for this team to eventually win a WS by hiring Stearns and retaining Arnold. Attanasio’s words yesterday mean nothing regarding the future of this team. 

The team’s exciting young core is still there. The powerhouse infrastructure, still there. The best young farm in the game, still there. Nothing is going to stop this team from their true destiny — winning a a WS or 2, along with an extended period of time as baseball’s only small-market dynasty.

Because what he says is the model for the entire franchise.   If he believes winning is not important then every baseball season is just a show.    the reality is who he hires and what he puts in place is gospel and if he says we do not need to win championships to stay relievent I am the one spending money to carry this team along with all of you who go to the games every night.     If we are not spending money on a team trying to win championships what are we doing?

I thought everything was in place to win here . I thought this team has a mission to beat the $ clubs  and were building a baseball team full of young stars they thought could do that very thing.    Then he said the team model out loud by mistake obviously and what he said changes everything .      

I do care that the team I invest myself into is focused on ONLY winning World Series.  It should always be the only goal of a baseball team no matter the odds against them.     He said as long as the team is making profit they do not need to win Series and its not even in his job description.    

 

I get why you do not want to hear what he said. I wish to God I had not.   What he said however is very meaningful as far as Owners statement go.    This is the first time covering sport I have EVER heard a team say they do not care about winning the biggest game in their sport.       It has never happened before that I can remember..       The owner said the reason the Brewers exists is to make profit not win Series and that offended me.    I believe it is because I was raised on Vince Lombardi.     I cannot speak for why other people are upset but I assume they feel the same way I do about it.      

Had he said any other thing I would never have spoken about anything he said.    He spoke the only words that could damage the brand in a bad way.     

 

I understand where you are coming from though . I really want to stay positive about it all and really like the 90% of the Brewers franchise as a whole.  I think it is those smart people who keep this team profitable and winning on the level they are now winning at  without a doubt.      I am also sick to death of LOSING and losing with a good record is harder than losing with a bad baseball club.      I never want to go back to the bad era .   I lived through it and it sucked.   1969-2024 with no World Series.   The only thing a club like this should be saying to the press is that "the only mission of the Brewers is to win a World Series"      The owner can talk about his job description after that is accomplished and it won't be as offensive as saying it when this team hasn't gotten what most of the rest of baseball has. 

 

I am sorry I hate talking about this and in fact I do not have it in myself anymore.   This entire thing bums me out to a level I cannot explain and I don't like bummers.     Hopefully we see Cooper Pratt or Made make the entire thing seem dumb .   I am sorry to bum anyone else out but this is a major news story that is being carried across many outlets.     

[82brewcrew82]

Just reading this thread but I am shocked anyone is actually surprised by what MA said.  This has been the operating model/philosophy for years.

[Redd Vencher]

He was taken out if context. In context, it's about choosing to extend Yelich for the fans over trading him to bring in more talent to win the WS, and would he do a Yelich type deal again, which he said yes. It's basically saying he isn't looking to be as aggressive about churning through talent like the Rays are (Arozarena had 2.5 yrs and Paredes had 3.5 years of control when traded for example) largely because the Rays have no fans by doing that.

[Ignitor 4ever]

Attanasio is also right.  If the only focus is on winning a World Series, the organization may make some decisions in striving for that goal that could cause us to have several down years, while still failing to reach the goal.  I'm talking about overreaching on big contracts that could sink us.  That is the essence of "bites of the apple."  There is so much luck involved in winning a WS that it is best for a small market team to stay within itself, develop young talent, make the occasional big splash and just stay competitive and hope for the cards to fall right one year.

Last season is a great example.  Who else in baseball would you want facing Alonso besides Devin Williams in that situation?  We had our best reliever and one of the best relievers in the game on the hill and it still went against us.  That's baseball.  What the Brewers are doing now is the best way to win a WS.  Just keep drafting and developing and hopefully making the right decisions when bigger/long-term contracts are handed out.  Attanasio's job is not to singularly focus on winning a WS, but to keep a good product on the field to provide us with entertaining summers and the hope that one year (maybe soon) we will have a magical fall.

[CheeseheadInQC]

For all the grousing about the World Series comment, it feels like getting ignored is the actual substance of the quote and the conflict it presents under the current system between what is good for the game and what is good for the teams' chances of winning, specifically the small market teams. It is good for baseball for teams to have those long-time, face of the franchise type players. The contracts that produce those, however, often end badly. For the big market teams, the payroll hit isn't onerous. They can really hamstring a small market team, however, and, yes, hurt their chances of winning. Creating franchise icons is good for teams (and baseball). Winning is good for teams. The league needs to come up with a system where this is not an either/or choice for all franchises, not just some of them.

[Playing Catch]

29 minutes ago, CheeseheadInQC said:

Creating franchise icons is good for teams (and baseball)

This comment intrigued me. I wonder if there was a weird way to do designated players. Perhaps 2 or 3 roster spots, the salaries of which are specifically paid through shared revenue. Almost like two separate buckets of payroll. One supplied by the team, and another bucket of pure, 100% shared revenue. It would act a little bit like the NBA's system of max contracts. Each team would have a couple of slots for designated superstars.

I presume the players would like it, as being a designated superstar, or Captain, perhaps, would naturally come with more exposure/marketing opportunities.

It would also provide a level of transparency for owners that are often accused of pocketing shared revenue.

[GreatNWwi]

Realizing there is probably something in between, I would rather have been a Brewers fan the last 25 years than a Marlins fan with 1 World Series title.

[markedman5]

 

[TURBO]

4 hours ago, GreatNWwi said:

Realizing there is probably something in between, I would rather have been a Brewers fan the last 25 years than a Marlins fan with 1 World Series title.

Interesting scenario, but I'll take the World Series championship. 

I want one in my lifetime, I can take the losing, but I want the one glorious season so I can see what it feels like.

[sveumrules]

Looks like the Pohlads will need to find new buyers as the Ishibas are pivoting to increasing their minority share in the White Sox instead.