Labor Discussion - Salary Cap, Local TV Sharing

[jesusoftheapes]

“Is my job to win a World Series," Attanasio said, “or is my job to provide a summer of entertainment and passion and a way for families to come together?"

Edit: I guess we are not allowed to have our own public opinion on this .   So be it. 

[jesusoftheapes]

On 12/20/2024 at 2:22 PM, Austin Tatious said:

Interesting interview from Foul Territory on an Athletic piece by Evan Drellich. 

Manfred apparently wants to push for revenue sharing on local TV rights with a salary cap.  Union will fight to the death on it.  

The question is convincing the players it’s a win for them too.  For example, could someone like Bregman make more if more teams get in there.  
 

 

Baseball players fighting for the death of this sport to make sure they get the most money possible when it is their turn has infected this sport now for so long thinking anything positive will ever change is a laugh.    Soto is not worth that payday.   Willy Adames IS NOT worth what he made in baseball .    Bregman got $40 million plus per season and you want to argue he should have been paid more ?     I am going to let you in on a big secret here ... THE BREWERS ARE NOT BROKE! They are 100% lying to the fans about how much profit they take in yearly and rank 19th in all sports in yearly profits.     They have had record attendance for going on 13 seasons in a row and have the 3rd highest ratio of creating new fans every season in all the MLB.    The only reason they are not spending money on players is because they are too busy buying 150k bobble heads each season for the fans who pay $11 bucks per beer in a BREWERS themed ball park.    

The Brewers being broke is the biggest lie ever told.   Do not buy it for one more minute.    This team may not make Dodger money and it never will but make no mistake this team is banking hundreds of Millions of dollars each season off what we pay for each season.    

The lie starts from the fact baseball committed suicide about 15 or 20 years ago and lost over 60% of its entire fanbase because of the lack of fairness in this sport and the money teams were holding over other clubs in baseball so nothing happened that was not expected.   The reports of the Brewers and most MLB teams struggling to make money is nothing more than a call to force some kind of NFL /NBA profit sharing system not to correct the problems that have alienated fans from wanting to watch baseball.    Even if they got a profit sharing system in place do not expect teams like the Brewer to claim it fixed the issues they say keep them from spending money on player payroll.     The Owner told us all what he thought of his job here and said winning championships is not the aim of the Brewers .  He only wants to win just enough to keep the profits high anything beyond that would cost too much and cut into his profits and that won't do. 

After he said that yesterday I just do not know if I care at all anymore.   I have never been more dejected by a team than I am right now.     He said winning championships is not important.   Just him making profits is .  

[MVP2110]

7 hours ago, JosephC said:

Yeah, like after the 2022 season when Nightengale reported the Brewers were going to cut the opening day payroll.  Just about everyone on this very board went nuts saying Nightengale had no credibility.  And yep, Attanasio whacked about 13 million off the opening day payroll (and currently has whacked another 14 million off this year...although my gut feeling is they will be adding some payroll before the season via trade).

Unreliable Bob Nightengale seems to have some credibility when it comes to the Brewer's payroll.

Brewers current Opening Day payroll is higher than last years Opening Day payroll

[MVP2110]

1 hour ago, jesusoftheapes said:

“Is my job to win a World Series," Attanasio said, “or is my job to provide a summer of entertainment and passion and a way for families to come together?"

This is really what this guy believes?..  No amount of explanation or redemption here.    The President just tanked the 2025 season in one swoop !   Sorry My Attanasio .. I AM SICK OF LOSING EVERY SINGLE SEASON!     This quote makes me not want to put in the time to watch baseball.   I can entertain myself with much better looking people than a summertime of baseball players if we are not serious about winning the World Series .     I am so sick to death of not getting their it could make me puke.       If this is what this guy believes man it really sunk my entire attitude about the Brewers moving into 2025.     If this guy thinks we are watching baseball for Family time he is completely sideways!   I want to win a World Series.   How long are we going to be told this team is broke when the truth is far from that and pretend it is real so rich people can get rich while we sit on team that has not won anything real EVER .     The 1980s and 1990s were HORRORS.   Winning enough to get to the playoffs only to be out after one series time and time again is not fun either.     It is less terrible than the former but it IS STILL LOSING!   

 

I grew up on meaningful quotes that taught us how to live life and win!   What this President just fed us was the biggest most horrifying statement in the history of any sports team,      He the basically outright said that the  Brewers want your money fans but they really are not aiming to win anything real and their real purpose is entertaining families like Circus Clowns NOt winning championships.   That makes me want to throw up and IS NOT the message to take into the first Spring Training game of the season.     The fact it is being downplayed by the media to roll cover for what he said already is pretty spot on .    This guy just said "spend money on the Brewers fans but do not expect to win anything real because that is not our job as Brewers ."       I have never heard a statement more damaging to any sports teams brand that what this man just said in front of the entire world.      

"Being part of a *team is no different than being a part of any other organization—an army, a political party. The objective is to win championships, to beat the other guy every time you play them." 

"Our society, at the present time, seems to have sympathy for the misfit, the ne’er-do-well, the maladjusted, the criminal, the loser.It is time to stand up for the doer, the achiever, the one who sets out to do something and does it. The one who recognizes the problems and opportunities at hand, and deals with them, and is successful, and is not worrying about the failings of others. The one who is constantly looking for more to do. The one who carries the work of the world on his shoulders. The leader."

“Winning isn’t everything, it’s the only thing.”

“Confidence is contagious. So is lack of confidence.”

    See the difference?   My goodness if you cannot say anything positive about the prospects of this team winning World Series just day before Baseball starts up again you should probably not take Media questions.     Just saying.     I know I feel less about the Brewers after hearing this than I did before .   If they are not serious about winning what the hell am I doing here?  

Revenue sharing may have made everyone rich in the NFL but it has ushered in the era where no one believes the games are honest anymore.   The NFL is the least trusted sport by its fanbase today and it was not that way before the NFL started the sharing of revenue.   Will it give the Brewers more money to sign players or will businessmen like Attanasio  continue to spread falsehoods about the team being flat broke each season even then all the while banking money into his coffers as we spend money following the team who does not think winning championships is part of their job description.         This quote was like being hit by a car driven by your best friend.      I dunno how to feel right now after it.   

Already being discussed in another thread. Also the quote was taken out of context by Bob Nightengale. Below is the full quote

 

 

[brewerfan82]

Maybe my interpretation of his quote is wrong, but the funny thing is he's basically saying he did the Yelich extension, not because it was the best baseball decision, but because it was an opportunity to give the fans a generational player to connect to and root for. Meanwhile the fans that are complaining and think he's cheap and not trying to win a championship are complaining because they want him to do more moves like the one that he's saying was motivated by entertaining fans and not necessarily putting the team in a better position to eventually win that championship, lol

[SF70]

We have a good owner.

He’s smart enough to hire the best people to run his team and then listen to those people, which is THE most important attribute for a small-market owner.

We have the best SM FO in baseball thanks to him. 

We could have an owner like the Pirates owner that hired Ben Cherrington over Matt Arnold (who interviewed for the Pirates GM job). Look how that has gone. Thank the baseball gods for that error in judgment.

Our owner is not an outlier spender as compared to other similar revenue teams.  That also matters.

He listened to Stearns when he said the team needed a massive infrastructure upgrade. Look at what we have now, 9 years later. 

A revamped Maryvale complex with a state of the art pitching lab that has helped the team directly with improving their pitching development.

3 of the best prospect-procurement departments in the game. International-Domestic & UDFA.

Hitting development that has recently gotten rave reviews from prospect-sites like BA.

And earlier upgrades in analytics & professional scouting.

To bash our owner because one cannot see the forest for the trees is shortsighted and just wrong.

[kestrel79]

I thought I saw something on Twitter from one of the Brewers writers that the whole MA quote was taken out of context and wasn't fully what he said. What he really said wasn't that bad, and it was wrote a certain way to create drama just like most things on the internet.

[liveforoctober]

It's like being hit by a car driven by your best friend? Holy smokes dude. 

Attanasio's first job is to hire the right guy who curates a team to win the World Series. Arnold is a good one. Attanasio's main job is to run a successful baseball operation as a whole. Arnold is the one who has the job to win the World Series. Attanasio is a support to that.

We would be far worse off with a Jerry Jones-like operation.

[sveumrules]

2 hours ago, brewerfan82 said:

Maybe my interpretation of his quote is wrong, but the funny thing is he's basically saying he did the Yelich extension, not because it was the best baseball decision, but because it was an opportunity to give the fans a generational player to connect to and root for. Meanwhile the fans that are complaining and think he's cheap and not trying to win a championship are complaining because they want him to do more moves like the one that he's saying was motivated by entertaining fans and not necessarily putting the team in a better position to eventually win that championship, lol

& many in the fanbase have spent a decent amount of time since 2020 dreaming up impossible trade scenarios to dump Yelich on top of it.

[tmwiese55]

So he essentially said he chose to spend more money rather than make the shrewd business/baseball decision to trade their star player.  But that he's fine with it or it is what is because he's trying to be entertaining along with winning.  And that's being blown up. 

The Yelich contract is a perfect microcosm of the argument here actually. The "team is cheap and not trying" crowd would've been up in arms if we chose to ride it out and traded him with a year before FA rather than sign him to what was at the time a team friendly deal.    When in reality, the correct baseball move to actually "Try to WIN!!!" would've been to do exactly that.     And in almost all other major FA and extensions it is the right move to not pay that stupid money as they enter their 30s.

[Fear The Chorizo]

With the current economic disparity in baseball, I don't see why Attanasio's comments should be viewed negatively at all.

He doesn't even own more than half of the Brewers, the smallest market in all of mlb, and people are ticked he isn't trying to spend $40m more on payroll?  What's the point when any larger market team could suddenly decide to spend $80m more much more easily and outbid them for players they may be targeting?

Until mlb does something to actually even the playing field between a team getting close to $350m annually for their games being televised and a team getting $20m annually, I have zero problem with Mark A. being as open and honest about what the Brewers can and can't do in terms of player payroll.

[TURBO]

It might just be me, but the OP absolutely wears me out as a contributor to this board.  It's either OVER the top rainbows and unicorns optimism, or what we have here.

Geez...

[brewerfan82]

5 hours ago, TURBO said:

It might just be me, but the OP absolutely wears me out as a contributor to this board.  It's either OVER the top rainbows and unicorns optimism, or what we have here.

Geez...

They certainly have a lot to say! But I appreciate their enthusiasm and the fact that they create their own threads instead of forcing the same topic into every other thread on the board.

Update: I would like to update this post with a simple addition... "Woah" 😆

[Fear The Chorizo]

MLB has to get broadcast/TV revenue sharing squared away.  As a fan of the smallest market team in baseball, I'd be OK with a new CBA that doesn't include a salary cap or luxury tax structure, includes a $100m salary floor, and fully shares broadcast revenue across the league.  Big market teams will still have payroll advantages but the current deferred money advantage the Dodgers have baked into their revenue stream to skirt even crazier luxury tax penalties would be significantly impacted.

Right now, it's honestly like mlb has built in relegation and there's no chance a handful of huge market clubs don't make the playoffs every year.  In the playoffs anything can happen for baseball, but when roughly 25 teams besides the huge market teams who win divisions annually are vying for 7 mostly wildcard spots that wind up opening with best of 3 game series to even reach the division series round, it's getting too predictable.

 

Mainly, this is a Dodgers problem....

[JosephC]

4 hours ago, MVP2110 said:

Brewers current Opening Day payroll is higher than last years Opening Day payroll

Sorry about the typo, should have been that he whacked another 14 million off going into last year, not this year.

As it stands, opening day payroll in 2022 was 131 million, currently stands at approximately 108 million heading into 2025.

[MVP2110]

26 minutes ago, JosephC said:

Sorry about the typo, should have been that he whacked another 14 million off going into last year, not this year.

As it stands, opening day payroll in 2022 was 131 million, currently stands at approximately 108 million heading into 2025.

Which was abnormally high for the Brewers. It's possible 2022 was the year Mark A looked at and decided to spend a little extra to "go for it"

[JosephC]

That's true, the highest the Brewer's payroll has ever been.  But right now we are at 108 million heading into 2025 (although I've already said that I do think it will get bumped up via an unanticipated trade), and the opening day payrolls in 2014 and 2015 were 103 and 104 million.   I just don't think Brewer fans can be real encouraged when looking at the current state of the payroll and where it's gone the last few years, 

[homer]

I merged the two threads discussing Attanasio's recent comments. 

[tmwiese55]

29 minutes ago, JosephC said:

That's true, the highest the Brewer's payroll has ever been.  But right now we are at 108 million heading into 2025 (although I've already said that I do think it will get bumped up via an unanticipated trade), and the opening day payrolls in 2014 and 2015 were 103 and 104 million.   I just don't think Brewer fans can be real encouraged when looking at the current state of the payroll and where it's gone the last few years, 

Sorry if this is a repost somehow, think other got deleted in the merge.  They did do the Hoskins contract just last year.  That seems to be the route we can do to actually spend some money and really there wasn't something like that out there this year at the one position we had open.  Bregman got close and hopefully they talked to him, but 40 mil per is ridiculous.     Maybe Kim to TB, but can't argue with not wanting to pay high yearly short term when the guy is going to miss like 1/3-1/4th of the first season. 

I'm still surprised they didn't add some kind of vet to the IF though for a few million. But my guess is its not the money holding that back, its that they think their current guys are better.  Though I'd still hope they find someone to add via trade.

One I go back to at last deadline is Burger in MIA.  In his last year before Arb so still have years of control.  Issue is he's bad at 3B D and we value that a ton. But, we'd only need him there for one year then can go to 1B after Hoskins, then we'd be trading him a year or two after if he plays well. He checks a lot of the other boxes we should be looking for in a trade though, but I know D is huge for them so doesn't surprise me. I don't know how strong of a package TX gave for him this offseason and if that's something we'd be comfortable with though.  Hopefully someone like that can still be found before the start of the year. 

[Jopal78]

2 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

MLB has to get broadcast/TV revenue sharing squared away.  As a fan of the smallest market team in baseball, I'd be OK with a new CBA that doesn't include a salary cap or luxury tax structure, includes a $100m salary floor, and fully shares broadcast revenue across the league.  Big market teams will still have payroll advantages but the current deferred money advantage the Dodgers have baked into their revenue stream to skirt even crazier luxury tax penalties would be significantly impacted.

Right now, it's honestly like mlb has built in relegation and there's no chance a handful of huge market clubs don't make the playoffs every year.  In the playoffs anything can happen for baseball, but when roughly 25 teams besides the huge market teams who win divisions annually are vying for 7 mostly wildcard spots that wind up opening with best of 3 game series to even reach the division series round, it's getting too predictable.

 

Mainly, this is a Dodgers problem....

Partially but not entirely. The Dodgers now have one billion dollars in deferred salary guarantees which pretty much means they can never be forced to change their revenue streams as any redistribution would likely bankrupt them with those guarantees on the books. 

But they’re not anlone deferrals are the hip thing to do in baseball lately with. The Mets have over 75 million dollars in guaranteed deferrals,  Bregman has 60 million deferred. Burnes has 64 million deferred, etc etc. 

Back in ‘94 was the time to make changes when the players would have agreed to a salary cap if the owners would have agreed to a floor. That ship has sailed, and in a way many teams have protected their revenue streams by deferring guaranteed money. MLB won’t be able to change the system and interfere with existing contractual obligations.

[wiguy94]

9 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Partially but not entirely. The Dodgers now have one billion dollars in deferred salary guarantees which pretty much means they can never be forced to change their revenue streams as any redistribution would likely bankrupt them with those guarantees on the books. 

But they’re not anlone deferrals are the hip thing to do in baseball lately with. The Mets have over 75 million dollars in guaranteed deferrals,  Bregman has 60 million deferred. Burnes has 64 million deferred, etc etc. 

Back in ‘94 was the time to make changes when the players would have agreed to a salary cap if the owners would have agreed to a floor. That ship has sailed, and in a way many teams have protected their revenue streams by deferring guaranteed money. MLB won’t be able to change the system and interfere with existing contractual obligations.

That's just not how deferrals work. The money that is being deferred needs to be put in an escrow account within two years of when the money earned then when the money is paid out it goes from the escrow account to the player. So the $68M that was deferred for Ohtani in 2024 needs to be set aside by the Dodgers by 2026.

[nate82]

20 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Back in ‘94 was the time to make changes when the players would have agreed to a salary cap if the owners would have agreed to a floor. T

You are thinking of the last CBA and not '94.  In '94 the players union wanted more revenue sharing in exchange for the salary cap.  In the last CBA the players union wanted a salary floor if there were to be a hard cap or one similar to what the NBA has.  The owners couldn't agree on a salary floor in the last round of the CBA and ditched their ceiling cap. 

[Jopal78]

1 hour ago, wiguy94 said:

That's just not how deferrals work. The money that is being deferred needs to be put in an escrow account within two years of when the money earned then when the money is paid out it goes from the escrow account to the player. So the $68M that was deferred for Ohtani in 2024 needs to be set aside by the Dodgers by 2026.

Yes, I understand how referrals work work. However when players are owed tens of millions of dollars starting 10 years years down the road, teams aren’t putting that money away now it defeats the purpose of deferring it in the first place. Secondly a dollar 10 years or more from now will be worth less. That is why the Bonilla situation is unique he’s been getting interest. Strasburg is the only guy recently that deferred with interest. The point remains teams the traffic heavily and deferrals are tying their hands in their future over how revenue can be redistributed. 

 

53 minutes ago, nate82 said:

You are thinking of the last CBA and not '94.  In '94 the players union wanted more revenue sharing in exchange for the salary cap.  In the last CBA the players union wanted a salary floor if there were to be a hard cap or one similar to what the NBA has.  The owners couldn't agree on a salary floor in the last round of the CBA and ditched their ceiling cap. 

No, the owners in ‘94 proposed to share all local revenue, have a salary cap, eliminate arbitration with FA after 4-5 years. The players rejected the proposal and demanded a floor as well. This was primarily due to distrust of owners like Selig who was acting commissioner.  I certainly don’t blame the players I’m sure owners like Selig would have screwed them if they agreed to a cap without floor.
 

However, that was the last real opportunity. Now, while it sounds great to Brewer or Royals fans, such a proposal would never even get to the players to consider because there are probably 20 of the teams who will never agree to share the local revenue.  It doesn’t make sense for them to give more horses a shot at the flag simply to narrow their gap with the lead horse. 

[jesusoftheapes]

8 hours ago, MVP2110 said:

Already being discussed in another thread. Also the quote was taken out of context by Bob Nightengale. Below is the full quote

 

 

making excuses for inexcusable is why this team never wins.    He is sucking the money right out of our wallets and telling us to like it.  Sorry he did not misspeak he said exactly what he meant and it means the Brewers are here just to lose for other teams accomplished seasons .   I did not just "misread"  and he said it VERY proud and loud and meant exactly what he said.  Screw any professional team who thinks winning Championships is not the goal and any fanbase dumb enough to cheer for a team who is there to take up space.     Sorry I am sick to death of losing!   If they are not serious about winning why should I be?

 

It was not a misquote, It was not wrong speak,   He said the exact thing he meant to say and he really believed it when he said it. Stop making excuses for bad ideas!  That is how we got  to this point without winning anything between 1969 and today. 

[Frisbee Slider]

5 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Mainly, this is a Dodgers problem....

I think the Dodgers get over $300 million per year in television revenue. 
 

I’m sure the Dodgers ownership are smart people. If they purchased the franchise at a specific price expecting $ X dollars of profit per year and there is a proposal to diminish their profit by a meaningful percentage, they would understandably say no.