Injury updates

[LouisEly]

3 minutes ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

The thought on 1b was to keep him healthy.  I fear that one diving catch or bang against the wall sends him on the IL. It's just like Yelich when he was needing games off, but 1b never became a thing.  Collins has stepped up to remain an option. Perkins is returning.  Frelick and Chourio.  Yelich with DH. 

Yelich already is for all intents and purposes the full-time DH.  He's played 72 games as DH this year and only 7 in LF with a total of 50 innings in LF (7 innings per game in LF).

[LouisEly]

13 hours ago, nate82 said:

Later this season?  I mean that is a bit optimistic maybe September at best would be his return timeline and I don't think that is really realistic.  I think the playoffs would be a more realistic timeline but that wouldn't be ideal.  

The surgery is on his left shoulder and while he bats LH he throws RH, so it's not his throwing shoulder.  

The surgery sounds like a repair to the bolts and not repairing a tear or a reconstruction.

[BrewerFan]

51 minutes ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

The thought on 1b was to keep him healthy.  I fear that one diving catch or bang against the wall sends him on the IL. It's just like Yelich when he was needing games off, but 1b never became a thing.  Collins has stepped up to remain an option. Perkins is returning.  Frelick and Chourio.  Yelich with DH.  Just curious for his protection from reinjury to try 1b. Wilken was injured recently that should delay his progress. Hoskins isn't guaranteed to be here. I forgot about Vaughn, but he's a non tender candidate.  Black I dunno what his future is.  I'm not familiar on Martinez.  

I would like to see Mitchell play. I fear his health and depth chart for the OF. Just a thought to give him another option.

I'll end responding to any other comments on the idea. Do add any thoughts, I'll read them. 

 

To the two commenter above this.  Yeli to 1b has been a topic multiple years. It's not happening. 

Right... but Yelich, it was just the back and from everything I understand about the back issue, it's... resolved. But sure, it'd been flaring up since he was in the league. One issue he'd dealt with his whole career. A disc pressing on a nerve causing his back to tighten up, they shaved that disc and apparently that's not a big deal, but... setting all that aside, Yelich brought most of his value from his bat. He was a fine fielder, good base runner, but you could play him at 1st and if he was healthy, get good production there...and the thought being, you have Chourio, Yelich, Frelick...as well as Perkins at a time Weimer, another time Black, but a surplus of OFers.

 

If you move Mitchell there, his bat doesn't really play and he's only slightly less likely to injure himself.

I'm not sure given a full, healthy season Mitchell is more than a .750 OPS. He's kinda inflated his OPS the last two years after injury by having a hot stretch, but over a full year? All the K's and holes in his swing?

 

I really hope it's just been bad luck as his bat IS good enough for an elite CFer. No doubt about that. But as a 1B? I don't think it's an upgrade on a half dozen other players we could throw out there next year. 

 

Oh, and Martinez is a Cody Bellinger type prospect who has just looked good for years and never really put it together, but has really come on this year in AA. 
I think you're right, Hoskins won't be back. Black could play 1st...I think. Vaughn won't make enough to non-tender IMO, Wilken got pushed back a couple months. But AAA to start next year, he likely wouldn't have gotten the call until June. 

Luke Adams though, he's gonna be just about ready. Maybe we'll sign someone. 

 

I'm also not giving up on the idea of Yelich to 1B. That was the position he was drafted at, it's the easist position, you'll need Contreras to DH more next year(presumably with Quero catching some or Siegler, Haase, whoever, but he should catch less). 

That may be pointless, but I still think it's worth a try as he enters his mid 30s. 

[RightFieldCoder]

1 hour ago, BrewerFan said:

I'm also not giving up on the idea of Yelich to 1B. That was the position he was drafted at.

I agree with the conclusion of trying Yelich at 1st some year in spring training. I don't agree with the reasoning. Braun played SS/3B in college and was drafted as a 3B. There was a reaaon he was moved to LF after winning RoY.

[BrewerFan]

27 minutes ago, RightFieldCoder said:

I agree with the conclusion of trying Yelich at 1st some year in spring training. I don't agree with the reasoning. Braun played SS/3B in college and was drafted as a 3B. There was a reaaon he was moved to LF after winning RoY.

My point being, it's not a foreign position to him. He's got SOME experience over there. 

And it's different than Braun. Yelich was moved to the OF because his athleticism was wasted at 1B. Braun's bat was wasted at 3B.

 

[markedman5]

 

[markedman5]

Mitchell is indeed done for the year…..

 

[Turning2]

2 hours ago, markedman5 said:

Mitchell is indeed done for the year…..

 

No surprise. How long do they justify hanging onto him? I don't blame a guy for injuries, but goodwill doesn't win ball games either. Really too bad. He was there only, what I consider, big, prototypical power hitting OF who might give you 25-30 HRs. No prospects fitting that mode either that I can think of, except perhaps Payne as he gets a little older and muscled up. 

[igor67]

For a little bit yet I think Mitchell makes sense, I would think the injuries will keep any arby figures down and as long as we are going with the fairly deep and flexible roster approach you can think of him as the 5th OF who can give you great impact for that roster spot when he's healthy. And maybe you luck into a career year playing him.

[LouisEly]

1 hour ago, Turning2 said:

How long do they justify hanging onto him?

Until they run out of roster spots for healthy players who are as good or better

[BrewerFan]

5 hours ago, Turning2 said:

No surprise. How long do they justify hanging onto him? I don't blame a guy for injuries, but goodwill doesn't win ball games either. Really too bad. He was there only, what I consider, big, prototypical power hitting OF who might give you 25-30 HRs. No prospects fitting that mode either that I can think of, except perhaps Payne as he gets a little older and muscled up. 

I'm keeping him another year...how much will he get heading into arbitration? 2M?

That's worth taking a flier on for another year... but if he manages to have a....Luis Robert type season and stays healthy and puts up a great season in CF with an 800 OPS, I wouldn't hesitate to deal him. There's a difference between...say Brock Wilken and Mitchell. One has had fluke injuries, I think the other will deal with them his whole career. 

[Jopal78]

4 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

I'm keeping him another year...how much will he get heading into arbitration? 2M?

That's worth taking a flier on for another year... but if he manages to have a....Luis Robert type season and stays healthy and puts up a great season in CF with an 800 OPS, I wouldn't hesitate to deal him. There's a difference between...say Brock Wilken and Mitchell. One has had fluke injuries, I think the other will deal with them his whole career. 

 

 The Brewers are not going to nearly triple his salary simply because Mitchell tries hard. What would Mitchell even argue at an arbitration hearing? All those other position players with 3+ years of service time and less than 150 career games played? 

Since turning pro, Mitchell has been mostly injured. (Less than 300 total games played since leaving college). It’s not a question of if he will get injured, but rather how many games will he miss when he does. 
 

Any team would be foolish to count on Mitchell for availability, so the only value he has is that mix of affordability and upside. But what is that worth, not much over the league minimum would be my bet. 
 

 

 

[BrewerFan]

3 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

 The Brewers are not going to nearly triple his salary simply because Mitchell tries hard.

No...I don't think anyone suggested they would. 

 

3 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

What would Mitchell even argue at an arbitration hearing?

Not much...which is why I said ~2M. He's making ~800K this year. How strong of an argument do you think you need to make to get 2M? 3.6 WAR his first 3 years seems like a strong enough argument.

He could argue that Andrew Vaughn got 3.25 in his first year of arbitration despite a 1.3 WAR.
Or Micky Moniak, another OF got 2M in his first year despite a .3 WAR.

Or he could use Keston Hiura who got 2.2M to spend the year in AAA or Luke Voit who got roughly the same, both in their first years of arbitration, Rowdy Tellez who got ~2M and had a negative WAR through his first year in arbitration. 

I'm not particularly interested in getting overly pedantic, I simply said I'd bring him back one more year...and if he stayed healthy for a full year and performed over a full year as he has over partial years, I'd trade him as I don't trust him to do so regularly in his career, but to point a finer point on it, I think it's worth bringing him back given the relatively low-price tag.

I hadn't made a hypothetical arbitration case for his arbitration hearing, just going off a rough number for a 1st year player eligible for arbitration who has performed pretty well combined with very poor availability.

Just taking a low first year arbitration number and putting a round number to it.

 

3 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

so the only value he has is that mix of affordability and upside. But what is that worth, not much over the league minimum would be my bet

Sure...his value is upside and affordability. I think 2M is affordable and in line with his production and it doesn't feel like many people believe the Brewers are pinching pennies quite to that degree just yet that they'd risk non-tendering him in the hopes of getting him for near the vet minimum. 

 

Quote

 

Per MLB Rumors

Mitchell has still only played in 141 major league games, but he’ll cross three years of service time this season while on the 60-day injured list. That’ll put him in position to reach arbitration for the first time in the coming offseason. His lack of time on the field will keep his first-year salary fairly light, and he’s still controlled three more years beyond the current season, so this setback — frustrating as it is for all parties — shouldn’t put Mitchell at any risk of a non-tender.

 

 

So....1.5M, 2M...whatever the exact number is, he'll still have the affordability and upside.

[Turning2]

8 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

I'm keeping him another year...how much will he get heading into arbitration? 2M?

That's worth taking a flier on for another year... but if he manages to have a....Luis Robert type season and stays healthy and puts up a great season in CF with an 800 OPS, I wouldn't hesitate to deal him. There's a difference between...say Brock Wilken and Mitchell. One has had fluke injuries, I think the other will deal with them his whole career. 

Given that the recent issue was related to the screws they patched him up with the first time, yeah, that sounds like a potentially ongoing problem. 

[BrewerFan]

7 hours ago, Turning2 said:

Given that the recent issue was related to the screws they patched him up with the first time, yeah, that sounds like a potentially ongoing problem. 

I mean, that could happen to any surgery. I don't think that's super rare. It's just the diabetes makes you more susceptible to injury and slower to recover from injury. So even if you were assured he'd never have shoulder problems again, sadly...it's likely to be something else. 

[Jopal78]

2 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

I mean, that could happen to any surgery. I don't think that's super rare. It's just the diabetes makes you more susceptible to injury and slower to recover from injury. So even if you were assured he'd never have shoulder problems again, sadly...it's likely to be something else. 

First of all Mitchell is a Type 1 diabetic. Not adult onset, meaning he’s known for years what he can eat and what he has to do to keep his glucose level under control. That’s exactly why Mitchell wears a monitor and tests his sugar level during games. 
 

Decreased blood flow and delayed healing are chronic consequences of long term uncontrolled hyperglycemia 

I’m not a doctor but I’ve never heard of any medical evidence of a causal link between soft tissue/muscle/sports injuries and the fact someone carries a diagnosis of Type I diabetes. In fact a few years ago, Will Sammon wrote a piece in the Athletic where Mitchell discussed the very lack of awareness people have in drawing the conclusion you made above. 

[duewizard]

Mitchell for 1.5-2M next year is a no brainer. If he can stay healthy  (120+ games) then the bump to 4ish M in 2027 is fine by me. Else I'm not sure

[LouisEly]

15 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

I’m not a doctor but I’ve never heard of any medical evidence of a causal link between soft tissue/muscle/sports injuries and the fact someone carries a diagnosis of Type I diabetes.

People with Type 1 diabetes have an increased risk of fracture and slower healing times:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4580610/

[markedman5]

 

[BrewerFan]

5 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

First of all Mitchell is a Type 1 diabetic. Not adult onset, meaning he’s known for years what he can eat and what he has to do to keep his glucose level under control. That’s exactly why Mitchell wears a monitor and tests his sugar level during games. 
 

Decreased blood flow and delayed healing are chronic consequences of long term uncontrolled hyperglycemia 

I’m not a doctor but I’ve never heard of any medical evidence of a causal link between soft tissue/muscle/sports injuries and the fact someone carries a diagnosis of Type I diabetes. In fact a few years ago, Will Sammon wrote a piece in the Athletic where Mitchell discussed the very lack of awareness people have in drawing the conclusion you made above. 

Edit-To be clear, I don't think anyone's under the impression that Garrett Mitchell has type1, not type 2 diabetes. Knowing what he could eat for years does not mean the disease doesn't make you more likely to suffer or take longer to recover from other types of injuries. 

 

 

I also never read this Will Salmon article, but I assure you, I didn't just wing it and guess on this.  They've done studies and have found a correlation to slower healing, higher risk for injury, lower bone density, inflation....etc...

 

So again, not just guessing, just going off what medically accepted consensus seems to be.

 

Quote

 

Studies show T1D athletes have increased rates of tendinopathy, adhesive capsulitis (“frozen shoulder”), and articular cartilage disease. This is linked to the buildup of advanced glycation end products (AGEs), reduced blood flow, impaired collagen synthesis, and nerve damage 

Diabetes can impair tendon function and vascular repair, leading to delayed or incomplete healing .

 

-Tendinopathy is a general term for a tendon disorder characterized by pain, swelling, stiffness, and impaired function, often caused by acute injury or chronic overuse.

Seems like that COULD be a problem for a professional athlete, no?

Clinical Journal of Sport Medicine

 

Next, recovery time;

journals.lww.com.

 

Quote

 

Athletes with T1D experience impaired wound and tissue healing, a higher risk of post-op infections, and altered rehab responses due to hyperglycemia and peripheral neuropathy.

Qualitative reports from individuals with T1D note muscle injuries healing more slowly than their peers.

 

There's a WHOLE lot more information on this, but I'm not just guessing and throwing a dart into the black and coming up with this conclusion on my own. 

Also, impacts bone density.

Quote

Even with good glycemic control, reduced bone turnover and insulin deficiency during growth phases can weaken skeletal integrity

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov.

 

This doesn't mean he can't have success as a Major League player, but it does certainly SEEM like there is ample evidence that he's MORE likely to struggle with injuries. 

 

But, if you DON'T think his injury is at any more risk due to being a T1 Diabetic, then... I'm not sure why you think the Brewers "are NOT paying him 2M to bring him back next year?"

It would seem to be even more obvious to bring him back under those circumstances. 

[Jopal78]

3 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

Edit-To be clear, I don't think anyone's under the impression that Garrett Mitchell has type1, not type 2 diabetes. Knowing what he could eat for years does not mean the disease doesn't make you more likely to suffer or take longer to recover from other types of injuries. 

 

 

I also never read this Will Salmon article, but I assure you, I didn't just wing it and guess on this.  They've done studies and have found a correlation to slower healing, higher risk for injury, lower bone density, inflation....etc...

 

So again, not just guessing, just going off what medically accepted consensus seems to be.

 

-Tendinopathy is a general term for a tendon disorder characterized by pain, swelling, stiffness, and impaired function, often caused by acute injury or chronic overuse.

Seems like that COULD be a problem for a professional athlete, no?

Clinical Journal of Sport Medicine

 

Next, recovery time;

journals.lww.com.

 

 

There's a WHOLE lot more information on this, but I'm not just guessing and throwing a dart into the black and coming up with this conclusion on my own. 

Also, impacts bone density.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov.

 

This doesn't mean he can't have success as a Major League player, but it does certainly SEEM like there is ample evidence that he's MORE likely to struggle with injuries. 

 

But, if you DON'T think his injury is at any more risk due to being a T1 Diabetic, then... I'm not sure why you think the Brewers "are NOT paying him 2M to bring him back next year?"

It would seem to be even more obvious to bring him back under those circumstances. 

I like your bolded parts in your quotes but  ignoring the meat and potatoes in those same quotes which disagree with your premise . Like delayed healing can incur in individuals with peripheral neuropathy and hyperglycemia.

I can all but guarantee you Mitchell doesn’t have peripheral neuropathy, and if he’s monitoring his glucose levels he doesn’t have chronic hyperglycemia either. 

As far as I recall Mitchell has torn ligaments in his shoulder, suffered a finger fracture, strained an oblique muscle and reinjured the ligaments in his shoulder. Not sure what the relevance of tendinopathy would be since he hasn’t suffered a tendon injury. But your high school debate coach would be proud for citing sources in your argument. Good try chap.

[Brian]

2 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

I like your bolded parts in your quotes but  ignoring the meat and potatoes in those same quotes which disagree with your premise . Like delayed healing can incur in individuals with peripheral neuropathy and hyperglycemia.

I can all but guarantee you Mitchell doesn’t have peripheral neuropathy, and if he’s monitoring his glucose levels he doesn’t have chronic hyperglycemia either. 

As far as I recall Mitchell has torn ligaments in his shoulder, suffered a finger fracture, strained an oblique muscle and reinjured the ligaments in his shoulder. Not sure what the relevance of tendinopathy would be since he hasn’t suffered a tendon injury. But your high school debate coach would be proud for citing sources in your argument. Good try chap.

High blood sugar can impair the body's healing process. Absolutely.

[liveforoctober]

Nestor Cortes threw 3 innings of 1 hit ball yesterday for the Sounds. 4K, 0BB.

You know with everything going on over the last ~3 months I often forgot about him. Every 4th or 5th day I'd have a "that's right we still have Nestor" moment.

The Brewers might be deploying an 8-man rotation coming out of the all star break.

[markedman5]

8 hours ago, Brian said:

High blood sugar can impair the body's healing process. Absolutely.

Yes but his diabetes is under control. 
 

I have type 2 ……it is under control……I have had no issues with injuries or healing that were different than before my diagnosis.

obviously I’m not a professional athlete and this is anecdotal.

[markedman5]