Aaron Civale Will Move to Bullpen as Brewers Add Jacob Misiorowski to Rotation

[markedman5]

Yeah……he likes Milwaukee……but wants to be a starter…..if not here somewhere else.

He is a professional and is acting like it………no issues with this at all.

[markedman5]

One of the things I don’t like about Murphy is he always says more than he needs to say………” now it’s time to behave “ didn’t need to be said…….Civale already said he would do whatever is asked of him. 
 

I don’t think he does it intentionally but he always says stuff that would make me cringe if I were his boss.

 

[Team Canada]

14 minutes ago, markedman5 said:

now it’s time to behave “ didn’t need to be said

Yeah, that's an interesting quote juxtaposed with the very reasonable Civale comments directly above. Maybe he meant it in the sense of he shouldn't have even asked for a trade, but at the end of the day, if the Brewers don't trade him, it sure sounds like Civale will do what's asked of him.

[RWeeksFan23]

20 minutes ago, markedman5 said:

One of the things I don’t like about Murphy is he always says more than he needs to say………” now it’s time to behave “ didn’t need to be said…….Civale already said he would do whatever is asked of him. 
 

I don’t think he does it intentionally but he always says stuff that would make me cringe if I were his boss.

 

agreed. He said things like that all throughout last year too.

[Playing Catch]

4 hours ago, Underachiever said:

Allow me to nitpick, please. The tweet says “request” and “ask”. Changing it to “demand” can color the discussion. 

Fair enough. These days we don't nitpick about those kinds of details enough, so no worries.

I heard Brian Kenny on MLB Now, and his 2-player panel talking about it, and I think he used the word, "demand". I wasn't meaning to directly reference the tweet.

[Jopal78]

1 hour ago, markedman5 said:

One of the things I don’t like about Murphy is he always says more than he needs to say………” now it’s time to behave “ didn’t need to be said…….Civale already said he would do whatever is asked of him. 
 

I don’t think he does it intentionally but he always says stuff that would make me cringe if I were his boss.

 

Why would they cringe? Is anyone mistaken that this is solely about future earnings? Murphy absolutely knows that, Arnold knows that too. Civale likely doesn’t care what Murphy has to say about it either. He’s concerned with going somewhere else so he can start. 

[ClosetBrewerFan]

5 hours ago, nate82 said:

There is no evidence that a trade request lowers a players value absolutely no evidence it is just fan speculation.

How could one possibly have evidence of this?  Its not something you can prove as it is a hypothetical.  Fact is there is no evidence either way but it seems logical that it would lower trade value.  Teams now know we have an unhappy player that we are trying to get rid of.  

I wonder how his teammates treat him.  He literally wants to leave the team.  That has to sit poorly with a bunch of players.

[Underachiever]

1 hour ago, ClosetBrewerFan said:

How could one possibly have evidence of this?  Its not something you can prove as it is a hypothetical.  Fact is there is no evidence either way but it seems logical that it would lower trade value.  Teams now know we have an unhappy player that we are trying to get rid of.  

I wonder how his teammates treat him.  He literally wants to leave the team.  That has to sit poorly with a bunch of players.

Man, some of you guys are taking this trade request hard. The teammates are probably fine. In fact, they probably understand more than any of us will ever know. 

[Samurai Bucky]

1 hour ago, Underachiever said:

Man, some of you guys are taking this trade request hard. The teammates are probably fine. In fact, they probably understand more than any of us will ever know. 

Next, you will hear the faint cries of people yelling at the clouds...

[nate82]

3 hours ago, ClosetBrewerFan said:

Fact is there is no evidence either way but it seems logical that it would lower trade value.  Teams now know we have an unhappy player that we are trying to get rid of.  

What makes it logical to go down?  If a player is happy or not is irrelevant to their value.  Civale's value was low and will remain low regardless of him asking for a trade or not.  I am extremely confident the Brewers have already reached out to other teams about Civale before he asked for a trade.  

A player asking for a trade has no impact on their value.  Did Favre asking for a trade kill his value?  How about Rodgers?  How about Ken Griffey Jr?    

[CheezWizHed]

Ok, MIs had a nice start.  Time to move him back to AAA and Civale back to the starting rotation.  Problem solved. 

[wntrtxn21]

With free agency coming up, Civale is rightfully concerned about the financial hit he would take if moved to the pen. I think the best way to handle this would be to let his agent try and find a deal the Brewers could live with while Milwaukee's front office activly tried to move him too. They have enough depth to do it. Now days I don't see any player resenting him doing this. They all realize it's a business. 

[Jopal78]

29 minutes ago, wntrtxn21 said:

With free agency coming up, Civale is rightfully concerned about the financial hit he would take if moved to the pen. I think the best way to handle this would be to let his agent try and find a deal the Brewers could live with while Milwaukee's front office activly tried to move him too. They have enough depth to do it. Now days I don't see any player resenting him doing this. They all realize it's a business. 

Having your agent contact other teams to find a deal is what they call tampering, and other teams can’t do it.

That’s why Civale had to go public in the first place. (Did anyone else notice how careful his word choice was: didn’t complain or fault the Brewers, didn’t explicitly mention money)
 

Whats interesting is neither Arnold or Murphy said they intended to facilitate his request.

The Brewers know you can never have too much starting pitching and most likely are not going to simply give Civale away because Aaron’s concerned about his next contract. 

[Scooterfletcher]

I think we need to look at getting something better than a lottery ticket but that won’t require a 40 man roster spot as of yet in a Civale trade.   We are gonna be pinched for our 40 man as is and have a rather high likelihood of losing the top pick in the rule 5 draft next year as is.   If we can get an organization’s top 10-15 prospect AND one sitting in A ball currently, that may well be the best case scenario for us.

[Frisbee Slider]

1 hour ago, Jopal78 said:

The Brewers know you can never have too much starting pitching and most likely are not going to simply give Civale away because Aaron’s concerned about his next contract. 

I agree. For as much as we sometimes gripe, Civale has more value than being simply discarded or DFA’d.

A contending team could do worse than Civale as their # 5.

[TURBO]

57 minutes ago, Scooterfletcher said:

 If we can get an organization’s top 10-15 prospect AND one sitting in A ball currently, that may well be the best case scenario for us.

Just so I am reading this right, you expect a team's top 10-15 prospect PLUS another A ball player for Civale?

Ummmm, I think your expectation of Civale's value is a bit off.

[CheeseheadInQC]

57 minutes ago, Scooterfletcher said:

I think we need to look at getting something better than a lottery ticket but that won’t require a 40 man roster spot as of yet in a Civale trade.   We are gonna be pinched for our 40 man as is and have a rather high likelihood of losing the top pick in the rule 5 draft next year as is.   If we can get an organization’s top 10-15 prospect AND one sitting in A ball currently, that may well be the best case scenario for us.

I get the overall sentiment and don’t mean to nitpick, but this is the year any roster crunch would affect protecting a guy about to hit minor league free agency. Unless I am forgetting someone, I don’t know that the Brewers have anyone who might get chosen in the rule 5.

[rickh150]

I see Civale as a tough guy to trade IF we do not want to eat his salary. If we have to eat 4 million plus and receive little in return, then just keep him as insurance. 

I get why he is frustrated....I did not think he pitched terribly. I liked having him in the rotation, actually.  But Henderson is likely coming up again to spot start or pitch out of the bullpen again....he's been better. And I would put the Ps, Peralta, Priester, and Patrick ahead of Civale now too....and the Miz.

[CheezWizHed]

The "moving to the BP will ruin Civale's FA market next year" is massively overblown.  Pitching for 4 months out of the BP isn't going to make people suddenly forget how he can pitch as a starter.  If he pitches well, he pitches well. 

Him going back to a 5+ ERA pitcher is what will ruin his FA market value. 

[rickh150]

Murphy probably could have avoided this all by just saying 6 man rotation....and skipping starts of Civale and the young guys from time to time to limit innings.  That would have made sense to most. He'll seemingly have to do this with Patrick/Priester/Miz down the line anyways. Tact.

 

[Playing Catch]

32 minutes ago, CheeseheadInQC said:

I get the overall sentiment and don’t mean to nitpick, but this is the year any roster crunch would affect protecting a guy about to hit minor league free agency. Unless I am forgetting someone, I don’t know that the Brewers have anyone who might get chosen in the rule 5.

I think the only "obvious" one is Coleman Crow, and perhaps I'm the only one that thinks he should be protected.

17 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

The "moving to the BP will ruin Civale's FA market next year" is massively overblown.  Pitching for 4 months out of the BP isn't going to make people suddenly forget how he can pitch as a starter.  If he pitches well, he pitches well. 

Him going back to a 5+ ERA pitcher is what will ruin his FA market value. 

I guess I kind of disagree, but mostly just because he needs innings to bring his numbers back down. He needs 5 innings at a time in order to bring down his BB and HR rates. He needs innings so that he can pitch around guys, and get through an order a couple of times. Lots of soft contact, trying to minimize damage. He's ONLY valuable to a team if he's going 5.2 innings. Bringing him out of the pen in the 6th inning in a one-run game isn't ideal for him or the team. His stuff simply doesn't allow me to envision him being successful in any relief role, other than the mop-up role.

I think he and his agent know that if he goes into free agency as a "swingman," it will cost him millions of dollars, or at least $1M. Not insignificant. He's simply not that valuable out of the pen, particularly with his elevated walk and HR rates in the last couple of seasons.

Throw in the fact that his body doesn't scream "well-conditioned athlete," and I would be concerned about his ability to bounce back on short rest --- again, for the first time since he was 20 years old.

I think Civale and his agent are correct to "panic". His upcoming free agency could be very boom/bust for him. If he were to re-set his value with a strong summer in the Brewers rotation, teams may be willing to get to 4 or 5 million AAV. If he remains as more of a depth starter, he's looking at 1-2 million AAV.

[CheeseheadInQC]

1 minute ago, Playing Catch said:

I think the only "obvious" one is Coleman Crow, and perhaps I'm the only one that thinks he should be protected.

Maybe I am wrong, but I thought he was a minor league free agent if he wasn’t protected. He was one of the ones I was referring to with that comment. I absolutely think he should be added.

[rickh150]

Go pitch for yourself as a White Sock, apparently.  

[endaround]

8 minutes ago, Playing Catch said:

I think the only "obvious" one is Coleman Crow, and perhaps I'm the only one that thinks he should be protected.

I guess I kind of disagree, but mostly just because he needs innings to bring his numbers back down. He needs 5 innings at a time in order to bring down his BB and HR rates. He needs innings so that he can pitch around guys, and get through an order a couple of times. Lots of soft contact, trying to minimize damage. He's ONLY valuable to a team if he's going 5.2 innings. Bringing him out of the pen in the 6th inning in a one-run game isn't ideal for him or the team. His stuff simply doesn't allow me to envision him being successful in any relief role, other than the mop-up role.

I think he and his agent know that if he goes into free agency as a "swingman," it will cost him millions of dollars, or at least $1M. Not insignificant. He's simply not that valuable out of the pen, particularly with his elevated walk and HR rates in the last couple of seasons.

Throw in the fact that his body doesn't scream "well-conditioned athlete," and I would be concerned about his ability to bounce back on short rest --- again, for the first time since he was 20 years old.

I think Civale and his agent are correct to "panic". His upcoming free agency could be very boom/bust for him. If he were to re-set his value with a strong summer in the Brewers rotation, teams may be willing to get to 4 or 5 million AAV. If he remains as more of a depth starter, he's looking at 1-2 million AAV.

As a backend starter Civale could get a 2 yr $15m contract.  As a swingman he's looking at a Colin Rea type contract of 1 yr/$5million.

[Playing Catch]

26 minutes ago, endaround said:

As a backend starter Civale could get a 2 yr $15m contract.  As a swingman he's looking at a Colin Rea type contract of 1 yr/$5million.

I think him getting more than Quintana did (1 year $4M), is hard for me to envision. But his getting $2.5M instead of $800,000 is a real scenario.