Joey O

[alwz4gbp]

How much longer are we going to be subjected to his horrific offensive game?  I'm not saying that they need to rush Pratt, Made or whoever but his spot in the order has now been a black hole for over a year.  It simply can't be ignored any longer.  Send him to the minors to work on hitting or send him to the spring training complex to get some individual coaching.  Something.  Anything.  It's been a rough start for most of the team but his continued struggles have reached a critical juncture in my opinion.  The season is at the 10% mark, how long until Murph just can't take it and pulls the plug?

[adambr2]

I guess my speculative answer to this would be they simply don’t have any better available options, so I would guess they’re going to be waiting until Pratt is ready.

If late July rolls around and they’re in clear buy mode, Ortiz is still completely unplayable and Pratt just looks overmatched at AAA, I could see a small move for some rental infielder. But even if that comes to fruition, it’s months out.

[Playing Catch]

47 minutes ago, alwz4gbp said:

how long until Murph just can't take it and pulls the plug?

How long until the Front Office pulls the plug?

I think Ortiz has until about May 15th to demonstrate he's the best candidate. I think his developmental door has basically closed, so I feel like May 15th is about the time when one can be confident that it's not just a slow start for an improved Ortiz (if indeed he has improved, which would be a dubious claim). I've felt that the team has been patient enough. He has such a gifted defensive skillset, you really want to give him as long of a leash as possible, which they've now done, IMO.

His transition to the bench has already started, what with Hamilton getting as many innings at short as he has. So far, Hambone has looked passable there, to me. But in more of a David Eckstein kind of way (sheesh. Eckstein is 51. I feel old).

[GAME05]

Pratt? Isn't Jett the most logical next guy up? Plus if they're willing to move Jett around his rookie year, he'd be a big help making up for some of our outfield absences, too.  Add in Jett's versatility would mean a little more playing time for Rengifo/Hamilton, which I sure wouldn't mind, plus I'd prefer them to Perkins/Jones/Matos.

Or is this just a temporary thing and once Chourio/Yelich/Vaughn come back, the  -offense/+defense of Ortiz is a lot more tolerable?

[Frisbee Slider]

It’s worth noting that baseball reference has Ortiz above replacement level.

[Team Canada]

1 hour ago, alwz4gbp said:

how long until Murph just can't take it and pulls the plug?

I think the answer is "longer than the fans can take it." :)

He's shown a long leash and continues to value his defense, so I would suspect Pratt or Jett will really have to force the issue. Especially if other players come back and are providing the offense. If the 9 hitter is hitting .200, they're just going to live with it.

[owbc]

47 minutes ago, Frisbee Slider said:

It’s worth noting that baseball reference has Ortiz above replacement level.

He's basically the Martin Maldonado of the shortstop position. 

[liveforoctober]

2 minutes ago, owbc said:

He's basically the Martin Maldonado of the shortstop position. 

Which is an amazing asset to have as a backup. Late inning defensive everything all over the infield.

I do think Jett has every opportunity to hit his way onto the roster whenever he wants to.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

Rengifo has been worse, so not sure why Joey is getting the attention.  And if the alternative is Cooper or Jett, maybe we should wait until either of them have an OPS above .600 in AAA.

[MilwaukeeBeers]

1 minute ago, ClosetBrewerFan said:

Rengifo has been worse, so not sure why Joey is getting the attention.  And if the alternative is Cooper or Jett, maybe we should wait until either of them have an OPS above .600 in AAA.

Rengifo has been as bad with the bat with a below average glove. Joey is an everyday player *for us. That is why he gets the attention, but Rengifo is far less valuable which is saying A LOT. Pratt and Jett likely are miles better than both with the bat. Pratt not too far off with the glove. 

[ClosetBrewerFan]

Quote

Joey is an everyday player *for us. That is why he gets the attention,

Joey has 49AB, Rengifo has 48 AB this year.  If we are going to replace someone, it should be Rengifo.  I personally think its too early to make that call yet.

[SoCalBrewfan]

The Brewers are patient, until they are not. Perhaps of note, the Vinny Capra index, to get a sense of length of leash:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=capravi01&t=b&year=2025

Capra's last Milwaukee appearance of 2025 was his 24th, coming on May 7, when his season OPS hit .250. Joey Ortiz, with a better track record and more defensive value, presumably has at least that long? Rengifo, who knows.

It perhaps mattered also that Durbin was 25 years old with an 800 ops in Nashville after a great fall league. If any one of Williams, Pratt, Made, heck, even Adams or Wilken, looked that ready I might take the under on May 7 for Rengifo.

No shade on Vinny, who was a fun story and is still better at baseball than 99.9999% of the world. 

 

[yourout]

Just for the hell of it I looked at his career splits and against left handers he's been okay so he might have to be somebody you just platoon with for now with Hamilton. 

.262 / .330 / .743 vs left

.219 / .283 /  .598 vs right

[Jim French Stepstool]

8 hours ago, Team Canada said:

I think the answer is "longer than the fans can take it." :)

He's shown a long leash and continues to value his defense, so I would suspect Pratt or Jett will really have to force the issue. Especially if other players come back and are providing the offense. If the 9 hitter is hitting .200, they're just going to live with it.

This is pretty much what happens IMO. Pratt or Williams will have to put up an eye-opening stretch of offense to force a change. And even through his struggles w/the bat last year, Ortiz' glove made the difference between winning & losing a number of close games. They didn't compromise that last year by thinking Monasterio would make enough of a difference with the bat, and the only reason he's sitting some now is they have a LHH option (Hamilton) who appears to be very solid w/the glove.

I wouldn't be surprised if it settles into a mix n' match with those two. I think Rengifo will eventually get the lions' share at 3B & hit acceptably.

[Frisbee Slider]

The Brewers are comfortably in last place in terms of OPS from SS position this season but 17th for bWAR from SS.

Unrelated note, Rengifo raised his OPS by 80 points with two hits, yesterday.

[Jopal78]

Tough crowd. 
 

Realize Ortiz is the better hitter than Frelick right now, and there’s no equal outrage or calls for Sal to be  demoted, benched, etc. The Brewers at least have options in the OF besides wasting outs on Frelick right now. 
 

Which isn’t to defend Ortiz but difference between him washing out of the majors and having a lengthy career as a defensive SS/utility player is a much smaller step  (Orlando Arcia 10 years .239/.292/.369, Alcides Escobar 14 years .258/.295/.345) than Sal Frelick continuing long term as a starting OFer with a .698 career OPS and scuffling mightily at the plate. 

 

[rickh150]

I am not counting on his bat being as good as 2024 or as bad as 2025. My guess is that his at bats are considerably less than last season. I do like his glove on the team, especially as a late inning replacement, Unless he is worse than 2025, I count on his abilities for 2026 and 2027.

[umphrey]

I think the FO wrote him out of their long term plans last offseason but didn’t show much urgency about it. Will be interesting to see what they do if this trajectory continues through the trade deadline (Joey and all the SS prospects showing poorly). They are probably calling around for an Adames style April/May trade right now honestly.