Joey Ortiz

[jay87shot]

What do we do with him? That bat has been epically bad after a first week that was pretty good. The defense is solid as always but if the organization is sold on Cooper Pratt being the long-term SS (evident by the contract) I don't see much need for Joey to be a utility guy. Jett and Hamilton will likely be better utility options and if we have solid defense at the infield spots we won't need a defense specialist. Between Leonard, Cooper, and Jett his spot will be likely gone soon if he doesn't get it together. Is there any value at all in a trade? I don't know if he has an option left but something needs to be done relatively fast.

[Jopal78]

31 minutes ago, jay87shot said:

What do we do with him? That bat has been epically bad after a first week that was pretty good. The defense is solid as always but if the organization is sold on Cooper Pratt being the long-term SS (evident by the contract) I don't see much need for Joey to be a utility guy. Jett and Hamilton will likely be better utility options and if we have solid defense at the infield spots we won't need a defense specialist. Between Leonard, Cooper, and Jett his spot will be likely gone soon if he doesn't get it together. Is there any value at all in a trade? I don't know if he has an option left but something needs to be done relatively fast.

You might want to check Williams and Pratt’s numbers in AAA this year. Neither of them are going to force the Brewers hand anytime soon. 
Leonard isn’t on the 40 man roster which means his path is more complicated. 
 

Where Joey is at with the bat and what would be acceptable for a strong defensive SS is t that wide of a chasm. He’ll keep getting chances until somebody takes his job from him, but without someone breathing down his neck they’re not going to make a change for change’s sake. 

 

[jay87shot]

43 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

You might want to check Williams and Pratt’s numbers in AAA this year. Neither of them are going to force the Brewers hand anytime soon. 
Leonard isn’t on the 40 man roster which means his path is more complicated. 
 

Where Joey is at with the bat and what would be acceptable for a strong defensive SS is t that wide of a chasm. He’ll keep getting chances until somebody takes his job from him, but without someone breathing down his neck they’re not going to make a change for change’s sake. 

 

Pratt was better last week after a weird start to his season with the contract, Jett has been inconsistent. I am saying if either is good for the next week or two I think serious thought has to be put into a change. Both do have OBP around .330 and at least for Pratt he has more bb than K's which should pull some weight. Yes, neither look good as call-ups today but if either can even show a sign of being going the right direction it should be considered.

In April, Joey is hitting .128/.212/.128. even by old school pitchers hitting standards that is bad.

[wallus]

I think we will be stuck with a Hamilton/Ortiz platoon at shortstop this year unfortunately 

[adambr2]

Pratt has been swinging a better bat lately. We know he’s our guy going forward. You’re not really losing anything, so I’d be fine going to Pratt anytime at this point and living through the growing pains.

[Madhawk23]

Joey Ortiz with zero XBH's in over 70 PA's so far this year is simply astounding. 11 singles....that's it. 

[RedStickBrew]

40 minutes ago, wallus said:

I think we will be stuck with a Hamilton/Ortiz platoon at shortstop this year unfortunately 

[bensheeps]

With Leonard playing primarily in the OF at Nashville this season, I wonder what he is like defensively on the dirt?  Would his defense be similar to Rengifo at 3B and/or Hamilton at SS?

If the defense is passable, I think he is the filler until Pratt shows a little more at the plate in AAA.  Hope to catch lightning in a bottle and that his minor league numbers translate to his first big league call up.  We do have an open spot on the 40-man... correct?

[Jopal78]

36 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

Pratt has been swinging a better bat lately. We know he’s our guy going forward. You’re not really losing anything, so I’d be fine going to Pratt anytime at this point and living through the growing pains.

Other than one of the points of the extension was to unburden Pratt’s development. Calling him up to the major leagues when he’s currently overmatched in AAA is exactly the opposite of their initial intent. 
 

Ortiz is awful with the bat, no argument there, but they’re short on pragmatic alternatives so he’ll continue to get ABs until  someone else’s performance takes his job away. 

[owbc]

The good news is that his defense has gotten him to be exactly replacement level (0.0 bWAR). So it doesn't make sense to replace him with a minor leaguer, especially when he should regress toward his usual level of "pretty bad but not horrendous". 

Relief pitching and RF have both performed worse to this point, LF and 3B are comparable. 

 

[adambr2]

15 minutes ago, owbc said:

The good news is that his defense has gotten him to be exactly replacement level (0.0 bWAR). So it doesn't make sense to replace him with a minor leaguer, especially when he should regress toward his usual level of "pretty bad but not horrendous". 

Relief pitching and RF have both performed worse to this point, LF and 3B are comparable. 

 

This season was supposed to be the season when Ortiz *should* have some positive regression. Instead, he got even worse.

I think we need to consider the strong possibility that 2024 was the aberration.

[adambr2]

1 hour ago, Jopal78 said:

Other than one of the points of the extension was to unburden Pratt’s development. Calling him up to the major leagues when he’s currently overmatched in AAA is exactly the opposite of their initial intent. 
 

Ortiz is awful with the bat, no argument there, but they’re short on pragmatic alternatives so he’ll continue to get ABs until  someone else’s performance takes his job away. 

I actually think this is about as low pressure of an environment, at least as much as that can be at this level making your debut, as anyone could ask for.

He's already secured the bag and his future. Poor performance won’t take that away.

The offensive bar for him to meet couldn’t possibly have been set any lower.

You could easily argue that it’s just as beneficial for his development to start learning his craft against big league pitching.

[liveforoctober]

IMHO Jett has the keys to this conversation. I would be a little surprised if they brought Pratt up anywhere near the big leagues until he settles in at AAA. Jett only needs a few good weeks of offensive production to be ready.

When Chourio comes back we won't be doing as much of the matchup stuff with opposing pitchers in the outfield ... so Chourio will replace Jones in all likelihood and then given Jett's ability to be in the grass he could replace Perkins and we wouldn't be losing the outfield depth.

So as we currently sit I think Jett is the only one who will bump Ortiz from regular at bats in the short/medium term?

[Jopal78]

35 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

I actually think this is about as low pressure of an environment, at least as much as that can be at this level making your debut, as anyone could ask for.

He's already secured the bag and his future. Poor performance won’t take that away.

The offensive bar for him to meet couldn’t possibly have been set any lower.

You could easily argue that it’s just as beneficial for his development to start learning his craft against big league pitching.

No. It’s not like the Brewers are tanking where losing is tolerated as part of the bigger picture. They’re trying to win as many as possible. They’re not going to call up Pratt to be overmatched at the major league level just for the sake of making a change at SS. They’ll call him up when they believe the totality of his game is superior to what Ortiz offers. It could happen this year, but early indications are Pratt is going to need significant playing time to develop against advanced minor league pitching let alone major league pitching. 

[SeaBass]

Since April 17, when Ortiz entered the game as a pinch runner and defensive replacement in the 10th inning, he only has 3 games where he's gotten 4 plate appearances. They're already mitigating his playing time.

[BruisedCrew]

Ortiz has undeniably been terrible at the plate. But, having him at number 9 in the order might be more acceptable if there weren’t so many other holes in the batting order. 
 

I’m less upset about Ortiz than I am that the Brewers did nothing to fill holes at 3B and the outfield corners, which are usually manned by more productive hitters who can provide some power. 

[BruisedCrew]

10 minutes ago, SeaBass said:

Since April 17, when Ortiz entered the game as a pinch runner and defensive replacement in the 10th inning, he only has 3 games where he's gotten 4 plate appearances. They're already mitigating his playing time.

Part of that reflects my comment about other holes in the batting order.. The Brewers haven’t been getting enough base runners to turn the order around more than 3 times. 

[adambr2]

54 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

No. It’s not like the Brewers are tanking where losing is tolerated as part of the bigger picture. They’re trying to win as many as possible. They’re not going to call up Pratt to be overmatched at the major league level just for the sake of making a change at SS. They’ll call him up when they believe the totality of his game is superior to what Ortiz offers. It could happen this year, but early indications are Pratt is going to need significant playing time to develop against advanced minor league pitching let alone major league pitching. 

I really don’t think a .445 OPS and 0 extra basehits is helping us win games now.

As SeaBass mentioned, he’s already been semi-benched.

[owbc]

41 minutes ago, BruisedCrew said:

Ortiz has undeniably been terrible at the plate. But, having him at number 9 in the order might be more acceptable if there weren’t so many other holes in the batting order. 
 

I’m less upset about Ortiz than I am that the Brewers did nothing to fill holes at 3B and the outfield corners, which are usually manned by more productive hitters who can provide some power. 

Yep, Frelick is a way bigger problem right now, playing at the #2 ranked offensive position in MLB, a position where league average OPS is 35 points higher than shortstop. And Frelick isn't making it up with his glove. 

[owbc]

2 hours ago, adambr2 said:

This season was supposed to be the season when Ortiz *should* have some positive regression. Instead, he got even worse.

I think we need to consider the strong possibility that 2024 was the aberration.

Given the current replacement options, if he can OPS at his 2025 rate of .593 he'll probably keep his job. 

If he continues at his 2026 rate of .445, he probably won't (and is already losing playing time as others have mentioned). 

It's frustrating since it's a very low bar that he's not reaching.