Josh Hader Traded to the Padres

[treego14]

Just now, willie key said:

Did I wake up in the 1990s

Thank you!

it’s been this way for way too long!

MLB has minor league teams in the MLB!

Fans are ripped off!

Level the playing field!

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

18 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

Amazing how perspectives change when we deal a guy. Hader went from the best reliever in the game to a playoff choker who maybe should be replaced by a committee in the postseason anyway just in the last few hours. 

 

Same with Rogers, who is now a top 5 closer in MLB? Cmon, I get the optimistic viewpoint but top 5 closers in MLB do not have to settle for 1 year/$7M prove it deals. 

No one is calling Hader a choker or saying it should have been closer by committee. But fans using fan logic to justify a big deal for their franchise is commonplace.

But saying that Taylor Rogers is anything but a high-end MLB closer simply isn't correct. Dude is very good, and has been for awhile. And yea, as pointed out above, he most certainly is not on a 1 year/$7 million "prove it" deal. 

[monty57]

The Cardinals are around a $150's to $160's payroll most years, and they're one of the most successful franchises in baseball. The Brewers have got themselves around the $130's, so the gap is getting smaller. Unless things drastically change, they'll always be at a disadvantage to the handful of "big market teams," but teams can maintain success in this payroll range, they just have to make smart moves. 

Paying a closer $20M/year isn't a smart move, and neither is allowing a good player to walk away in free agency. Hader needed to be traded at some point, and Stearns was able to take advantage of the "relievers get their highest value mid-season" theory while maintaining a solid bullpen for the remainder of this (hopefully) playoff campaign.

[BillScottCanRake]

Let's keep this thread related to the players involved in the Hader trade, or how the trade will impact the teams payroll. 

Feel free to start a different thread to discuss how economics impacts the competitive balance of baseball.

[brewerfan82]

2020-22 RPs w/ at least 100 IP (btw, similar rankings whether you go 2019-22, 2020-22, or 2021-2022... Williams, Hader, and Rogers in the top 8 in all date ranges):

[MrTPlush]

16 minutes ago, patrickgpe said:

for those complaining that the brewers are never going to compete with the big boys. Yes you are correct. Trades like today are a fact of life as a Brewers fan. Its never going to change. If it upsets you, then maybe being a Brewers fan is not for you. 

 

Well....it doesn't have to be that way when they are competing. There is a fair argument to just ride it out and even go a bit 'all-in' making more aggressive trades for guys controllable 2 years or less.

Now....that isn't this posters argument, but it is a fair argument some may have that are upset over this. It isn't like the whole consistently competitive concept has been much more successful at winning a WS than Doug Melvin was.

[SeaBass]

25 minutes ago, treego14 said:

If Hader was on the Yankees, would they have made this deal?

No way!

Payroll inequities in MLB are infuriating!

Hmm, seems like this current season the big story in New York was that the Yankees might not be able to resign that Aaron Judge guy. Whoever that is, haven't heard much about him.

[treego14]

[Nola Beery]

3 hours ago, wibadgers23 said:

Let me be the first to say: What the F?

I'll be the second (or 297th). 

[SRB]

36 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

Amazing how perspectives change when we deal a guy. Hader went from the best reliever in the game to a playoff choker who maybe should be replaced by a committee in the postseason anyway just in the last few hours. 

 

Same with Rogers, who is now a top 5 closer in MLB? Cmon, I get the optimistic viewpoint but top 5 closers in MLB do not have to settle for 1 year/$7M prove it deals. 

Not sure who you are thinking of, but Taylor Rogers is on his final arbitration year and was traded to the Padres this offseason for SP Chris Paddack. He is a dominant closer who has never taken a "prove it deal"

[Pugger]

3 hours ago, Eye Black said:

Brewers about to turn over their major league roster in a pennant chase? Interesting...

 

 

Then who is our backup to Caratini should we make the postseason?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Just now, Pugger said:

Then who is our backup to Caratini should we make the postseason?

Likely Alex Jackson. Or Feliciano I suppose.

[BallFour]

Unless Lamet shows he can be a lights out reliever in the next two months he will for sure be non-tendered in the offseason. 

[Playing Catch]

It would be weird and wild, but could the Crew trade Narvaez AND Severino and get say, Sean Murphy or Willson Contreras?

[YelichPosse]

I'd like to know more about Gasser , and where Lamet is health wise (as he has been nasty in the past)... BUT...

Esteury Ruiz is what I am excited about. Check out what he has done this year with his BB/SO and getting on base. He also is FAST. I could see him being what the Brewers brass sees as a guy we could run with in CF and profiles as an on base threat. You will see him undervalued/rated in a lot of "polls" as this year I think he finally put it together. 

I also think there will be more moves, and wonder where this will lead us.

[Pugger]

2 hours ago, craigharmann said:

What. The. Heck. I don’t get this. And I saw a tweet (Rosenthal, I think) that Wong and Narvaez were also available. We’re in 1st place in the division. Shouldn’t we be ADDING pieces, not getting rid of them? 

Perhaps we aren't as good as our division lead suggests?

[owbc]

3 minutes ago, Pugger said:

Perhaps we aren't as good as our division lead suggests?

The Brewers have been acting more like Rays for a while now, but 2022 appears to be the year that we decided to fully embrace the "constantly competing and rebuilding at the same time" strategy. 

Personally I love it. 

[markedman5]

 

[monty57]

MLBTradeRumors said that both Ruiz and Gasser were among the top ten prospects for the Padres. MLB.com had Ruiz as the Padres' #28 ranked prospect, and I think that's part of the reason some people are worried about the return.

Has anyone seen any updated lists that have Ruiz ranked higher in the Padres' organization? Is MLBTradeRumors basing it off their "insiders?" Is it a typo?

Here's the article I'm referring to: https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/08/brewers-trade-josh-hader-padres.html

[sveumrules]

3 minutes ago, Pugger said:

Perhaps we aren't as good as our division lead suggests?

Today, with Hader still in the Brewers depth chart listings on FanGraphs, they are at 90.6% playoffs, 81.7% division and 5.4% World Series odds.

Once the depth charts are updated I'll post the new odds with Rogers swapped in for Hader. My guess is that the impact will be negligible.

If the Brewers front office didn't believe they were as good as their division lead suggests (I personally think the Brewers front office believes this team is better than their division lead suggests given the pitching injuries/underperformance they've endured to this point), they probably would have tried for more future value in the return in favor of present value or near-present value in guys like Rogers, Lamet or Ruiz.

[adambr2]

34 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

No one is calling Hader a choker or saying it should have been closer by committee. But fans using fan logic to justify a big deal for their franchise is commonplace.

But saying that Taylor Rogers is anything but a high-end MLB closer simply isn't correct. Dude is very good, and has been for awhile. And yea, as pointed out above, he most certainly is not on a 1 year/$7 million "prove it" deal. 

Yeah, that's my mistake, I should definitely have looked into the nature of his deal this year before saying that. 

I guess I just think that saying Rogers is a top 5 closer is a clear embellishment and it just kind of illustrated my point that we (collectively as a fanbase) tend to stretch the truth as needed to make ourselves feel better about our own acquisitions. 

I think if you surveyed the board 24 hours ago on how much difference there is between Hader and Rogers the answer would have been "vast" and now today the consensus seems to be "not much."

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

1 minute ago, adambr2 said:

Yeah, that's my mistake, I should definitely have looked into the nature of his deal this year before saying that. 

I guess I just think that saying Rogers is a top 5 closer is a clear embellishment and it just kind of illustrated my point that we (collectively as a fanbase) tend to stretch the truth as needed to make ourselves feel better about our own acquisitions. 

I think if you surveyed the board 24 hours ago on how much difference there is between Hader and Rogers the answer would have been "vast" and now today the consensus seems to be "not much."

I think that is more an indication of how good Hader has been over the last several years than a criticism of Rogers. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me of Rogers turns out to be the second best closer traded during this deadline. It just so happens he was part of the package for the best. 

But yeah, looking at the numbers, if Rogers isn't a top 5 MLB closer, he's dang close. And the return the Twins got for him last year in Paddack was an indication of how good he actually is.

[Playing Catch]

1 minute ago, adambr2 said:

Yeah, that's my mistake, I should definitely have looked into the nature of his deal this year before saying that. 

I guess I just think that saying Rogers is a top 5 closer is a clear embellishment and it just kind of illustrated my point that we (collectively as a fanbase) tend to stretch the truth as needed to make ourselves feel better about our own acquisitions. 

I think if you surveyed the board 24 hours ago on how much difference there is between Hader and Rogers the answer would have been "vast" and now today the consensus seems to be "not much."

I'm guessing that many posters that wanted to trade Hader at his peak wanted to do so, in part, BECAUSE they felt that the difference between him and other good closers wasn't a big deal.

I also don't think there was a board consensus, except that posters wanted a BIG return for Hader. That is what we don't really know. I also think its not always done to make one feel better, as much as its about trying to make sense of it.

[Brock Beauchamp]

1 hour ago, Eye Black said:

While I realize it likely won't remain intact for long, the Brewers updated top ten prospects list is looking quite solid. 

Updating the prospect tracker this month should be fun!

[sveumrules]

For those disappointed with the trade, which Padres prospects would you have preferred to replace the Lamet/Diaz/Gasser portion of the trade?

Just looking at the FanGraphs preseason list I would imagine that all their 50 FV & over guys - Abrams, Campusano, Hassell III, Gore & Wood - would have been off the table, even without Rogers coming back in the deal.