Hader VERY BAD for Padres

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

7 minutes ago, torts said:

Oh, I forgot, beating arch rivals is why you make trades ?

I'd be willing to bet that's the silver lining many Padre fans are clinging to this morning. 

[torts]

And yes, I'd have traded hader.  

[Samurai Bucky]

On 10/22/2022 at 10:55 AM, Thurston Fluff said:

This isn't a situation where players struggle because someone died or they're going through a divorce or some other hardship. I understand that sort of thing can seriously mess with a person for a long time. 

How about if your wife is going through issues with carrying your child and you have to take time off?  I have a feeling that this was a big catalyst to Hader's mid-season struggles.

[tmwiese55]

30 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

I'd be willing to bet that's the silver lining many Padre fans are clinging to this morning. 

They also get him and Soto for next year too.  Their results from the trades aren't over yet.   And they did make it a round further than they'd been able to previously.   I didn't think their pen was all that bad to neeeeed Hader, but considering what they gave up and getting him next year too I see why they did it.   Especially when considering LAD would've been another very likely destination for him if/when we traded him this offseason. 

[wildcat2237]

7 hours ago, tmwiese55 said:

They also get him and Soto for next year too.  Their results from the trades aren't over yet.   And they did make it a round further than they'd been able to previously.   I didn't think their pen was all that bad to neeeeed Hader, but considering what they gave up and getting him next year too I see why they did it.   Especially when considering LAD would've been another very likely destination for him if/when we traded him this offseason. 

The Padres have lots of options: 

1. Keep Hader and go for it in 2023. 

2. Trade Hader this offseason and recoup much of what they gave up for him. 

3. Trade Hader at the 2023 deadline and get a good portion of what they traded for him back. 

[Redd Vencher]

7 hours ago, Samurai Bucky said:

How about if your wife is going through issues with carrying your child and you have to take time off?  I have a feeling that this was a big catalyst to Hader's mid-season struggles.

Except that happened well before his struggles. He had a sub 1 ERA on June 15th when his kid was born. His wife had to take to instagram to shoot down Heyman's post trade speculation about this.

[Thurston Fluff]

22 hours ago, Samurai Bucky said:

How about if your wife is going through issues with carrying your child and you have to take time off?  I have a feeling that this was a big catalyst to Hader's mid-season struggles.

I'm sure it had quite a bit to do with it but it's totally irrelevant to the discussion at hand. I was saying I don't buy into the team tanking for two months because they couldn't get over Hader being traded. I specifically said I get things like family problems could cause long term performance issues but I don't think trading one player is the same. Or at least shouldn't.

[Outlander]

This is directly from Maria Hader, think we can drop that Hader's struggles were related to family issues. He was born June 15th, major struggles starting mid July.

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

Maybe instead of trying to side with management posters should look at this situation from a player's point of view.  In the heat of a pennant race the GM in all of his infinite wisdom sends a mixed message.  He says he is interested in making the playoffs, but I am going to trade away an impact reliever for a bunch of garbage.  As a player how would you feel about that?  

 

For all the posters who think human emotions aren't a part of baseball maybe you should invent a robot capable of playing baseball and take the human element out of the game.  Trading the best reliever in baseball during a pennant chase is about as stupid as you get.  To think a grown man with a college degree thought this was a wise move should be demoted and have to earn his way back or maybe trade him too.

 

Stearns was a complete fool in this case enough said.  But posters on this site will protect management and blame the player's instead.  Tell me did anyone ask the players if trading Hader to San Diego was a good idea?  Why not?

[sveumrules]

18 minutes ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

Tell me did anyone ask the players if trading Hader to San Diego was a good idea?  Why not?

Players play. Management manages. Unless you're LeBron James, then you get to do both.

[Brewcrew82]

55 minutes ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

Maybe instead of trying to side with management posters should look at this situation from a player's point of view.  In the heat of a pennant race the GM in all of his infinite wisdom sends a mixed message.  He says he is interested in making the playoffs, but I am going to trade away an impact reliever for a bunch of garbage.  As a player how would you feel about that?  

 

For all the posters who think human emotions aren't a part of baseball maybe you should invent a robot capable of playing baseball and take the human element out of the game.  Trading the best reliever in baseball during a pennant chase is about as stupid as you get.  To think a grown man with a college degree thought this was a wise move should be demoted and have to earn his way back or maybe trade him too.

 

Stearns was a complete fool in this case enough said.  But posters on this site will protect management and blame the player's instead.  Tell me did anyone ask the players if trading Hader to San Diego was a good idea?  Why not?

It's not about picking sides, and it shouldn't be. It's about whether trading Hader was in the best interest of the franchise. Long term, no question that it was in our best interest. But it did backfire specifically as it relates to this past year while we were contending, and Stearns has rightfully taken the heat for it. But the players also deserve some of the blame for how they played following the deal. We should have made the playoffs even without Hader. 

Instead of continuing to rehash it, let's move forward as what happened, happened. We have a very real chance of making it back to the playoffs next year, and some opportunities to improve the ball-club, not to mention a greatly improved farm system. I'm very excited to see what's in store. 

[Thurston Fluff]

1 hour ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

Maybe instead of trying to side with management posters should look at this situation from a player's point of view.  In the heat of a pennant race the GM in all of his infinite wisdom sends a mixed message.  He says he is interested in making the playoffs, but I am going to trade away an impact reliever for a bunch of garbage.  As a player how would you feel about that?  

 

For all the posters who think human emotions aren't a part of baseball maybe you should invent a robot capable of playing baseball and take the human element out of the game.  Trading the best reliever in baseball during a pennant chase is about as stupid as you get.  To think a grown man with a college degree thought this was a wise move should be demoted and have to earn his way back or maybe trade him too.

 

Stearns was a complete fool in this case enough said.  But posters on this site will protect management and blame the player's instead.  Tell me did anyone ask the players if trading Hader to San Diego was a good idea?  Why not?

If I was to guess the players would have been for keeping Hader, trading for Soto and adding two or three other franchise players as well. They don't have to worry about the health of the franchise. What does it matter to them if the team isn't viable after they're gone? Which is why you don't ask the players to manage the team.

[UpandIn]

1 hour ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

Maybe instead of trying to side with management posters should look at this situation from a player's point of view.  In the heat of a pennant race the GM in all of his infinite wisdom sends a mixed message.  He says he is interested in making the playoffs, but I am going to trade away an impact reliever for a bunch of garbage.  As a player how would you feel about that?  

 

For all the posters who think human emotions aren't a part of baseball maybe you should invent a robot capable of playing baseball and take the human element out of the game.  Trading the best reliever in baseball during a pennant chase is about as stupid as you get.  To think a grown man with a college degree thought this was a wise move should be demoted and have to earn his way back or maybe trade him too.

 

Stearns was a complete fool in this case enough said.  But posters on this site will protect management and blame the player's instead.  Tell me did anyone ask the players if trading Hader to San Diego was a good idea?  Why not?

Yeah, it's hard to take this seriously when you continue to refer to the return for Hader as a "bunch of garbage."

2-Players go through REAL **** during the season. Sick kids, family members passing. Again, someone leaving the team to go play in sunny San Diego and getting a guy back from San Diego...that's something PROFESSIONAL athletes need to get over. Hader didn't die, he didn't get sick...he got traded. 

I don't expect them to be robots. I don't expect them to take months to overcome the trade of a teammate. These aren't children, they're athletes who are paid handsomely to play a game. Josh Hader passing away in a tragic manner as the Angels players have experienced several times? Sure, that absolutely makes sense. Again, he's in San Diego, not dead. 

3-The best reliever? We didn't have Clase or Diaz, so we didn't trade the best reliever. We traded a great left handed reliever for a good left handed reliever and then also added a good right handed reliever and then tried to add another. 

4-Ask the players? So...moving forward, are the players just gonna vote on what trades are or aren't made?

How exactly do you envision that going? 'Hey guys, could you all bring it in for a minute? We've got a trade over here and we're thinking about trading Eric. You guys good with that or?' Tell me what team in baseball does that?

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

You don't trade away a core player during a pennant race.  The time to trade core players is during the off-season.  Soto was not a core piece as he wouldn't sign an extension, plus he was on a losing team out of contention.  I am all for trading away all of the current Brewers this includes Stearns.  But there is a time and a place.  July is not the time or the place.  November, December, January, February is the time.  Give the players time to digest the GM's actions.  Also, a lot of the August and September losses can be laid at the feet of the players the GM traded for in July.  Stearns shot from the hip without doing due diligence.  He looked at numbers and not circumstance. 

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

The San Diego GM has balls of steel trading away his top prospects the last two years for a few core players.  

[Brewcrew82]

4 hours ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

The San Diego GM has balls of steel trading away his top prospects the last two years for a few core players.  

We'll see what the San Diego fanbase thinks of him if Hader and Soto leave without a World Series to show for, while they are left with little financial flexibility due to paying Machado and Tatis over $600 million and an aging roster due to their depleted farm system. He'll either be a saint or a serpent. 

[UpandIn]

2 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

We'll see what the San Diego fanbase thinks of him if Hader and Soto leave without a World Series to show for, while they are left with little financial flexibility due to paying Machado and Tatis over $600 million and an aging roster due to their depleted system. He'll either be a saint or a serpent. 

I can't even remember the list of absolute studs the Padres have traded away during AJ Preller's time, but it'd almost certainly be a comparable team to what they have now for about 100M less and they'd still have a great farm system to supplement their team. 

Balls of steal are a lot easier when you have another 100M in salary cap spaces and you can package players to dump bad contracts like Hosmer, Myers and others. 

Trea Turner, Max Fried, Ty France...hell, they had the best reliever in baseball in Emanuel Clase but they choose to trade him.

[owbc]

13 hours ago, UpandIn said:

I can't even remember the list of absolute studs the Padres have traded away during AJ Preller's time, but it'd almost certainly be a comparable team to what they have now for about 100M less and they'd still have a great farm system to supplement their team. 

Balls of steal are a lot easier when you have another 100M in salary cap spaces and you can package players to dump bad contracts like Hosmer, Myers and others. 

Trea Turner, Max Fried, Ty France...hell, they had the best reliever in baseball in Emanuel Clase but they choose to trade him.

Once all the WAR is added up 10 years from now, the Austin Nola trade might end up as one of the worst of all time. The Mariners had FIVE players on their playoff roster that they acquired in that trade. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

17 hours ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

The San Diego GM has balls of steel trading away his top prospects the last two years for a few core players.  

It has more to do with his own job security after spending a ton of time building a great farm system with zero MLB success, then promptly gutting the top of it with trades and exploding their payroll.  Lots of talent there, maybe balls of steel, but no rings.

[Robocaller]

On 10/25/2022 at 2:30 PM, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

Maybe instead of trying to side with management posters should look at this situation from a player's point of view.  In the heat of a pennant race the GM in all of his infinite wisdom sends a mixed message.  He says he is interested in making the playoffs, but I am going to trade away an impact reliever for a bunch of garbage.  As a player how would you feel about that?  

they got a guy who had one fewer save than Hader did at the time. And they acquired Bush to help the pen.

If I was a brewer player, I'd wish Josh the best, and welcome Rogers and Bush, and hunger deeply to win the division and thrive in the postseason. But that's just me.

 

[sveumrules]

6 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

It has more to do with his own job security after spending a ton of time building a great farm system with zero MLB success, then promptly gutting the top of it with trades and exploding their payroll.  

Ding ding.

From Preller’s first season at the helm in 2015 through 2019 the Padres went 349-461, 26th in MLB. Their average payroll rank was 24th. They had five years to accumulate talent.

Over that same time frame, even though they were transitioning from Melvin to Stearns & not spending (average payroll rank also 24th), the Brewers went 412-399, 10th in MLB. Stearns & company were too good too fast.

Since pushing their chips to the center of the table & breaking out in 2020 the Padres have spent around $470M to go 205-179.

Over that same time frame the Brewers have spent around $280M to go 210-174.

Padres are 8-10 in two postseason trips under Preller vs the Brewers 7-10 in four postseason trips under Stearns.

The differences are almost entirely aesthetics (& economics).

[torts]

On 10/25/2022 at 8:28 PM, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

You don't trade away a core player during a pennant race.  The time to trade core players is during the off-season.  Soto was not a core piece as he wouldn't sign an extension, plus he was on a losing team out of contention.  I am all for trading away all of the current Brewers this includes Stearns.  But there is a time and a place.  July is not the time or the place.  November, December, January, February is the time.  Give the players time to digest the GM's actions.  Also, a lot of the August and September losses can be laid at the feet of the players the GM traded for in July.  Stearns shot from the hip without doing due diligence.  He looked at numbers and not circumstance. 

There were ZERO signs of hader signing an extension, so, there goes that argument.  

Brewers we're not a good team from June 1 on.  Like, look at the data.  

[UpandIn]

22 hours ago, owbc said:

Once all the WAR is added up 10 years from now, the Austin Nola trade might end up as one of the worst of all time. The Mariners had FIVE players on their playoff roster that they acquired in that trade. 

I think it was 4, but France and Munoz alone make that trade a huge win already. I'm actually kinda rooting for the Pads to win one in the next 2 years(after the Brewers of course)...because in 3 years, they could easily be in the same situation the Angels are in(with their best players not being nearly as good) and there's a very real chance you could build a playoff caliber team from former Padres prospects. 

If they were just a little bit more patient...seems like Munoz could have been their closer this year. France seems like a logical trade chip and I don't recall how good of a prospect he was(not that it'd be hard to look it up). So some of the moves make some sense. 

[Hopper]

On 10/24/2022 at 11:05 AM, torts said:

Oh, I forgot, beating arch rivals is why you make trades ?

I bet it factors in, in a lot of cases, maybe more than you know.

?