Packers 2023 Discussion Thread

[BrewerFan]

15 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

https://fansided.com/2022/09/12/packers-jaire-alexander-justin-jefferson-ignored/

Jaire Alexander to me and @RobDemovsky postgame on coaches not having him shadow Justin Jefferson: "All week, (I was) asking for that matchup. But it ain't about me. It's about the team. It ain't about me. If it was my way, you know what I would be doing."

When is Jaire ever subtle?  😂

Yeah...I remember that now. Still didn't feel like a shot at Barry necessarily... that's just kinda Jaire to your point.

I guess if there were comments as pointed as Campbell's...we'd have talked about it much more. 

 

On second thought...I'm not even sure it matters if this is all directed specifically at Barry, the scheme, whatever. If your players, guys who are not trouble makers, if they're getting to this point where they're openly making comments about not playing because of issues with the staff, that undermines the HC. 

So if you fire Barry, you're going to need to earn back the respect in that locker room. You're 3 years in now. Det and Wash fired him after 2. 

I understand the priority was Love this year and the offense, but...it's been clear Barry needed to go since very early on.

[CheezWizHed]

No nothing directly at Barry himself... that actually would be pretty bad form...  But Jaire has spoken many times about "the coaches" and his displeasure about the scheme or game plan. 

But I certainly agree that firing Barry sends a message to the team.

[BrewerFan]

6 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

No nothing directly at Barry himself... that actually would be pretty bad form...  But Jaire has spoken many times about "the coaches" and his displeasure about the scheme or game plan. 

But I certainly agree that firing Barry sends a message to the team.

It was inferred, but it feels like Campbell's was something that was building and building and blew.

I just hope MLF can get these guys back. MM may have gotten stale, but he had his guys motivated and behind him for the most part early on. Leaders like Wood, Pickett, Tasuch, Clifton, they certainly help, but a group this young?

MLF needs to grab the reigns back. 

[OldHeidelberg]

Sounds like Hockenson is out for at least this weeks game, Vikes lost one of their edge rushers too. They still have Jefferson and a blitz heavy defense, probably a bad matchup for us. But who knows, they have been hit as hard by injuries as us and it seems like we have had some good late season games against them recently. Essentially an elimination game, that probably saved us from getting flexed out to Sunday afternoon by Ravens-Miami. 

 

Torn ACL and MCL for Hockenson. Ouch, I really thought they stole him from Detroit but now they have LaPorta and VIkes have a question mark in Hockensen for next season.

[Fear The Chorizo]

51 minutes ago, OldHeidelberg said:

Sounds like Hockenson is out for at least this weeks game, Vikes lost one of their edge rushers too. They still have Jefferson and a blitz heavy defense, probably a bad matchup for us. But who knows, they have been hit as hard by injuries as us and it seems like we have had some good late season games against them recently. Essentially an elimination game, that probably saved us from getting flexed out to Sunday afternoon by Ravens-Miami. 

 

Torn ACL and MCL for Hockenson. Ouch, I really thought they stole him from Detroit but now they have LaPorta and VIkes have a question mark in Hockensen for next season.

They also have a highly questionable quarterback situation heading into next year, and not the greatest salary cap situation when your best player (Jefferson) is likely to demand a WR market-setting contract in the offseason and their best lineman (Darrisaw) is also in line for a big payday to avoid holdouts/trade demands.

Their GM has gotten mixed reviews - kudos for some adept free agent pickups and trades to add productive pieces to the roster, but his first couple of drafts are being widely panned despite having a bunch of picks to work with.  The Vikes are a roster in limbo, and their arrow is either pointing sideways or down for the next few seasons because of it despite having what appears to be good coaches on both sides of the ball.

[HarryDoyle]

2 hours ago, OldHeidelberg said:

Sounds like Hockenson is out for at least this weeks game, Vikes lost one of their edge rushers too. They still have Jefferson and a blitz heavy defense, probably a bad matchup for us. But who knows, they have been hit as hard by injuries as us and it seems like we have had some good late season games against them recently. Essentially an elimination game, that probably saved us from getting flexed out to Sunday afternoon by Ravens-Miami. 

 

Torn ACL and MCL for Hockenson. Ouch, I really thought they stole him from Detroit but now they have LaPorta and VIkes have a question mark in Hockensen for next season.

The Vikings could pick up a tight end off of somebody else's practice squad tomorrow and he'd go off for 100 yards and two touchdowns against our defense.

[GAME05]

Packers leading the League in making opponents think "Gee, he could be our quarterback of the future." 

[homer]

 

 

[HarryDoyle]

13 minutes ago, homer said:

 

 

I was expecting this. I have a feeling this is far from over.

[nate82]

This probably says more about MLF than it does about Jaire.  The team is going off the rails and it doesn't look like MLF is trying to fix it.  But that is just my observation as a non Packers fan.

[homer]

23 minutes ago, nate82 said:

This probably says more about MLF than it does about Jaire.  The team is going off the rails and it doesn't look like MLF is trying to fix it.  But that is just my observation as a non Packers fan.

The offense has been really good the last 5 - 6 weeks and Love has been arguably a top 5 QB in that timeframe with the youngest receiving corps in the NFL. The defense has been bad enough to get Barry fired in the offseason. I am happy as a clam.

[HarryDoyle]

It’s a good thing we have Preston Smith and Quay Walker to hold the fort together at the corner position this Sunday.

[bjkrautk]

On the plus side, we no longer have to worry over whether Joe Barry will allow Jaire to travel with Justin Jefferson on Sunday night.  Soft Zone coverage it is!

[GAME05]

Tom Grossi saying it was because Jaire went out for the coin toss last game but he's not a captain. I think we all assume there's a lot more to it than that.

Crossing my fingers his beef is with Joe Barry and that it'll all be solved the Monday after the final game.

[Samurai Bucky]

3 hours ago, nate82 said:

This probably says more about MLF than it does about Jaire.  The team is going off the rails and it doesn't look like MLF is trying to fix it.  But that is just my observation as a non Packers fan.

IIRC, the team management structure is a three-headed monster with Gutekunst, MLF, and Murphy.  I think there is much more to the story that MLF not being able to fix it.

That said, MLF's personality doesn't seem to be one of a total authoritarian (and maybe it should be).  Jaire should be a leader on the team and when he pulls this stunt, it says a lot more to me about him than it does about MLF.

[SeaBass]

Just now, Samurai Bucky said:

IIRC, the team management structure is a three-headed monster with Gutekunst, MLF, and Murphy.  I think there is much more to the story that MLF not being able to fix it.

That said, MLF's personality doesn't seem to be one of a total authoritarian (and maybe it should be).  Jaire should be a leader on the team and when he pulls this stunt, it says a lot more to me about him than it does about MLF.

Close. Murphy is on top of the flow chart, the three directly under him are Gute, MLF and Russ Ball. Those three guys are equals and have total power for what they're in charge of with oversight by Murphy.

[Samurai Bucky]

32 minutes ago, SeaBass said:

Close. Murphy is on top of the flow chart, the three directly under him are Gute, MLF and Russ Ball. Those three guys are equals and have total power for what they're in charge of with oversight by Murphy.

Thanks for the clarification.

[BrewerFan]

5 hours ago, homer said:

The offense has been really good the last 5 - 6 weeks and Love has been arguably a top 5 QB in that timeframe with the youngest receiving corps in the NFL. The defense has been bad enough to get Barry fired in the offseason. I am happy as a clam.

Yeah, that's all great, but there's a leadership issue in GB right now. 

This season was primarily about developing Love and transitioning, but that's also about developing a culture where your leadership and young players...not acting like clowns. 

 

I still don't know if it's Murphy, MLF(it's Barry, but it goes up at least one level higher). 

[BrewerFan]

2 hours ago, SeaBass said:

Close. Murphy is on top of the flow chart, the three directly under him are Gute, MLF and Russ Ball. Those three guys are equals and have total power for what they're in charge of with oversight by Murphy.

Yeah, but it's more than that.

From Harlan hiring Wolf until 2019, it was Murphy atop that chart, but he hired the GM and then he stayed out of the Football side. His job is similar to the board of directors. They pick a President and they don't make decisions after that. 

The President picks a GM, he doesn't make FB decisions after that. I'm sure when it comes to a franchise-altering trade such as the Rodgers trade, you would always be expected to go over it with him, but Murphy(and I've linked this already) has gone way over and started to become a problem.

From his comments about how Rodgers would only be back if things didn't work out like they wanted...which is just stupid, you're giving the Jets leverage. I'm not sure it ended up mattering, I think we did well, but it was stupid and it MAY have cost us the 1st rd pick this year and it was just strange.

I've already commented about his influence or forcing Pettine, Drayton, or the insulting offer to Rizzi(NO ST Coordinator)...

 

This started with the Thompson firing, it proceeded on since then;

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/12/4-thoughts-on-recent-changes-within-packers-organization/

https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2019/05/09/silverstein-critics-see-cracks-green-bay-packers-new-management-structure/1142267001/

Quote

An organizational chart that for 25 years spelled out the franchise’s hierarchy in a clear and concise manner is gone.

 

3 hours ago, Samurai Bucky said:

IIRC, the team management structure is a three-headed monster with Gutekunst, MLF, and Murphy.  I think there is much more to the story that MLF not being able to fix it.

That said, MLF's personality doesn't seem to be one of a total authoritarian (and maybe it should be).  Jaire should be a leader on the team and when he pulls this stunt, it says a lot more to me about him than it does about MLF.

That's the question. Is it Matt LaFleur's call or not? Can MLF just fire people or not? We don't know.

And no, MLF does not seem like an authoritarian, but he seems to have the respect of most of the locker room. Or he has until this year. But when you keep employing such a bad coach....thee worst coach I've seen in any of the sports teams I follow, you lose the players trust, you lose credibility...and then they start going rogue. 

Jaire SHOULD be a leader on the team...he is to blame. I'd say that when things really started to sound bad was Campbell's tweet last week. 

If Kenny Clark comes out and says something? When is it the trusted vets you trust/believe vs the DC has failed?

[BrewerFan]

3 hours ago, SeaBass said:

Close. Murphy is on top of the flow chart, the three directly under him are Gute, MLF and Russ Ball. Those three guys are equals and have total power for what they're in charge of with oversight by Murphy.

To reiterate...they do not. They haven't since Thompson was here.

[Samurai Bucky]

On 12/27/2023 at 7:11 PM, BrewerFan said:

And no, MLF does not seem like an authoritarian, but he seems to have the respect of most of the locker room. Or he has until this year. But when you keep employing such a bad coach....thee worst coach I've seen in any of the sports teams I follow, you lose the players trust, you lose credibility...and then they start going rogue. 

Jaire SHOULD be a leader on the team...he is to blame. I'd say that when things really started to sound bad was Campbell's tweet last week. 

If Kenny Clark comes out and says something? When is it the trusted vets you trust/believe vs the DC has failed?

TBH:  I have not followed the situation as closely recently.  I wonder if MLF was using ARod as a conduit until this year  -- perhaps his only conduit.  He doesn't have that crutch anymore and he might not be able to handle it. 

Joe Barry needs to go... period.  Maybe Jim Leonhard's name gets brought back up again?

In regards to the structure of the organization -- Murphy did spend many years as the AD at Northwestern.  Not necessarily the best feather in the cap.  😉

[BrewerFan]

10 hours ago, Samurai Bucky said:

TBH:  I have not followed the situation as closely recently.  I wonder if MLF was using ARod as a conduit until this year  -- perhaps his only conduit.  He doesn't have that crutch anymore and he might not be able to handle it. 

Maybe with Rodgers, he's there to calm the players on defense down...and it's not just Rodgers, but Lewis, Cobb, Bakh was around the team. Then this year they don't have the veteran leadership, and the most outspoken vet seemed to be Douglas.

10 hours ago, Samurai Bucky said:

Joe Barry needs to go... period.  Maybe Jim Leonhard's name gets brought back up again?

The first part is so painfully obvious, it's frustrating that he's not being fired. Again, probably a good man, nice guy...but so are dozens of players invited to camp each year. The players don't respect him and it's so important to build the culture right around such a young core.

I think you might need to go get a guy like Budda Baker as a FA this year. Someone who just has the impeccable credentials as a player, has a team first attitude and obviously being in his prime helps. He reminds me a bit of LeRoy. 

 

I hope it's Leonhard. It's so annoying to hear people say we only want him because he was at UW or that if you get Leonhard, "it's just a different version of Pettine." He's an outstanding coach. I do know that because I watched him at Wisconsin more than Michigan's DC(who Michigan fans say is the next big hire) but it's also easy to see how his scheme so easily translates. 

 

10 hours ago, Samurai Bucky said:

In regards to the structure of the organization -- Murphy did spend many years as the AD at Northwestern.  Not necessarily the best feather in the cap.

LOL...yeah...too much goes into the job for him to be managing everything. You had a bunch of big-names available to be your GM...you went with Gutey, now trust him. Gutey went with MLF, trust him. That's how the job works.

If they don't produce results, you fire them. MLF having to go to Gutekunst and Ball to fire Barry and then going to Murphy and Murphy having to approve it? It's stupid. Keep it how it'd been under Harlan and most of his tenure. 

 

I still think this team is mostly going in the right direction. Just basic, obvious changes are needed.

[HarryDoyle]

Stokes is ruled out for tomorrow. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing him go either. He wasn't that impressive when he was healthy.

[LouisEly]

1 hour ago, HarryDoyle said:

Stokes is ruled out for tomorrow. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing him go either. He wasn't that impressive when he was healthy.

Surprising considering he wasn't on the injury report yesterday at all.

Methinks they need to invest heavily in DB in the upcoming draft.

[LouisEly]

I think that the strength & conditioning coaches need to follow Barry out the door at the end of the season.  The Packers need to form a partnership with UW:

https://education.wisc.edu/news/new-research-aims-to-link-repeat-hamstring-injuries-with-altered-brain-activity-in-athletes/