Canha to Detroit.... RHP Blake Holub to Brewers

[owbc]

I’d rather spend half the money on Santana. I’m still mad at the Mariners for not giving him a contract last year. 

[Joseph Zarr]

1 hour ago, sveumrules said:

Brewers set a franchise record for opening day payroll in 2022.

By the time the various in-season and deadline deals were accounted for, Spotrac had their year end payroll a couple million higher in 2023 than it was to end 2022.

As long as the money is re-allocated elsewhere over the next five months, no pennies were pinched in this transaction.

Tired:    Penny Pinching

 

Wired:  Player Pinching

[brewmann04]

lets say not a good strt but the Fo with that saved money  and see what they will pull off this offseason

[brewmann04]

i am not looking forward to the Burnes trade

[Joseph Zarr]

In all seriousness, and I say this completely peaceably, why is this hard to understand for baseball minds?

- Brewers trade for two months of Canha and he clearly helps the squad.

WIN

- Mets pick up the vast majority of that tab.

WIN

- Brewers give up RHP Justin Jarvis 

Loss of Tenured Prospect WIN by Nature of MLB In Season Net Gain.

- Brewers Gain RHP Blake Holub who will plug and play at Double-A Biloxi

My point here is:

Emotion leads certain fans  to the tired story of "...Attanasio is so cheap and the Brewers will never win anything..." and, yet, they fail to simply recognize the forest for the trees. This is another example of a shrewd really good business deal giving the Brewers organization multiple bites of the apple. And, yes, the Brewers have salary and organizational budget restrictions. Holub may not work out. But, this process is perfectly sound and understandable. 

[ClosetBrewerFan]

I had forgot Jarvis was who we traded for Canha. His AAA numbers this year were awful. In 12 Gs he had a 8.79 ERA. I wonder who will have the better career. Holub or Jarvis. Neither are top prospects but it seems likelier at this point that Holub could at least be a useful reliever in the majors. 

Its too early to judge this trade since we dont know what the Brewers will do with the money saved. Just because the Brewers didn't think Canha was worth 11.5M doesn't mean they plan to rebuild. 

[MNBrew]

I like Canha and would have loved to see him back.  However, I agree with those who feel the $11.5M price tag was too steep.

This move saves us the $2M buyout and gains the system an arm that's shown improvement.

If a bigger move isn't out there, I'd love to see Santana return.  Super solid D & fair bat w/ good power for a reasonable price should be > than the $11.5M for what would hopefully the best of Mark Canha.

I'd love a Pete Alonso addition, too, but I'm not sure how likely that possibility now is.  Black at 3B seems to hold some promise.  Monasterio's nothing flashy, but he's serviceable and sure would've been a better bat in the lineup overall than Donaldson (Mr. GIDP) was.

I love hot prospects like everyone else, but they take time to develop, even with hot MLB starts.  I hope Wiemer, Turang, & Frelick are long-term, successful Brewers.  But their initial bursts all were followed with them returning to earth.  The promise is still there.  The hope is that it'll still develop & become realized.

 

[LouisEly]

With Miley declining his option and Woodruff's injury, the Brewers might need to spend that $11.5M on starting pitching if they want to compete as opposed to Canha. 

Starters aren't cheap.  Free agency is just beginning.

[Matt Breen]

I think Canha would have been a nice 1B and/or DH for this club in 2024, but I understand the move. The team probably wants a 'power' bat at 1B/DH - and Canha was not that. He's a guy who will likely hit a dozen HRs and have a .250-.260 BA, and take a nice share of walks. That's not real sexy - especially for a guy at that position. 

I'm guessing we bring back Santana on a one-year deal for around $6-7m. Just a guess.

[nate82]

The starting pitching FA market is actually rather strong this off season.  You have the following players hitting FA.

Stroman, Ryu, Perez, E. Rodriguez, Wood, Clevinger, Nola, Giolito, Gray, Snell, Severino, Montgomery, Odorizzi, Wacha, Flaherty, Miley, Maeda, Velasquez and Yamamoto.  This is also not counting Ohtani who will miss all of the 2024 season and Kershaw who may miss half of the year.  There is also Urias who has some serious legal issues to deal with.  If Urias wouldn't be dealing with his issues and Ohtani was healthy this would have been the strongest pitching FA in a long time. 

There are a lot of options for #3-5 type starters.  This is definitely a buyers market for these type of pitchers but still you are looking at something like $10-15m a year for some of these pitchers. 

 

[Brewcrew82]

11 minutes ago, nate82 said:

The starting pitching FA market is actually rather strong this off season.  You have the following players hitting FA.

Stroman, Ryu, Perez, E. Rodriguez, Wood, Clevinger, Nola, Giolito, Gray, Snell, Severino, Montgomery, Odorizzi, Wacha, Flaherty, Miley, Maeda, Velasquez and Yamamoto.  This is also not counting Ohtani who will miss all of the 2024 season and Kershaw who may miss half of the year.  There is also Urias who has some serious legal issues to deal with.  If Urias wouldn't be dealing with his issues and Ohtani was healthy this would have been the strongest pitching FA in a long time. 

There are a lot of options for #3-5 type starters.  This is definitely a buyers market for these type of pitchers but still you are looking at something like $10-15m a year for some of these pitchers. 

 

Trevor Bauer also. I think a team is going to sign him this offseason

[brewmann04]

I am surethe Brewers will use there usual wait and see who left to sign after the big rush

[liveforoctober]

19 hours ago, Joseph Zarr said:

In all seriousness, and I say this completely peaceably, why is this hard to understand for baseball minds?

- Brewers trade for two months of Canha and he clearly helps the squad.

WIN

- Mets pick up the vast majority of that tab.

WIN

- Brewers give up RHP Justin Jarvis 

Loss of Tenured Prospect WIN by Nature of MLB In Season Net Gain.

- Brewers Gain RHP Blake Holub who will plug and play at Double-A Biloxi

My point here is:

Emotion leads certain fans  to the tired story of "...Attanasio is so cheap and the Brewers will never win anything..." and, yet, they fail to simply recognize the forest for the trees. This is another example of a shrewd really good business deal giving the Brewers organization multiple bites of the apple. And, yes, the Brewers have salary and organizational budget restrictions. Holub may not work out. But, this process is perfectly sound and understandable. 

How dare you approach this topic with reason and foresight.

[JohnBriggs12]

There's better options out there at 1B than paying Canha.  Not necessarily via FA either.  

[Fear The Chorizo]

19 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Trevor Bauer also. I think a team is going to sign him this offseason

I think that team should be the Brewers - Bauer has shown a willingness to go year to year or sign short term deals, betting on himself.  Even if the Brewers are going through a bit of uncertainty with trading or retaining Burnes, and the Woodruff injury/arbitration situation, signing an arm like Bauer to the rotation at worst could set up for flipping him at the trade deadline and at best it would give the rotation a ~#2-3 caliber starter that can log a ton of innings for a team that wants to contend.

[TPlush]

On 11/5/2023 at 1:27 PM, Joseph Zarr said:

In all seriousness, and I say this completely peaceably, why is this hard to understand for baseball minds?

- Brewers trade for two months of Canha and he clearly helps the squad.

WIN

- Mets pick up the vast majority of that tab.

WIN

- Brewers give up RHP Justin Jarvis 

Loss of Tenured Prospect WIN by Nature of MLB In Season Net Gain.

- Brewers Gain RHP Blake Holub who will plug and play at Double-A Biloxi

My point here is:

Emotion leads certain fans  to the tired story of "...Attanasio is so cheap and the Brewers will never win anything..." and, yet, they fail to simply recognize the forest for the trees. This is another example of a shrewd really good business deal giving the Brewers organization multiple bites of the apple. And, yes, the Brewers have salary and organizational budget restrictions. Holub may not work out. But, this process is perfectly sound and understandable. 

I think Brewers ownership is cheap. But anyone claiming that applies to the trades with Canha makes no sense. This was a great pair of trades, we gave up practically nothing for a half-season rental & playoff series. Wish we did this more often, not less!

[Matt Breen]

As I reflect on this move, I think the disappointing thing in losing Canha is that the man got on base - a trait we sorely lacked.

He had a .355 OBP last year. His career is .349, so well within what you might expect from him. 

Last year, only two Brewers had an OBP better than Canha's - Yelich and Contreras. 

It's a bit frustrating losing a player who did something we needed. I realize that his salary, age, hitting ability (beyond getting on base) and position come into play. But it's disappointing to lose someone who could really contribute.

Oh well. 

 

[wiguy94]

9 minutes ago, reillymcshane said:

As I reflect on this move, I think the disappointing thing in losing Canha is that the man got on base - a trait we sorely lacked.

He had a .355 OBP last year. His career is .349, so well within what you might expect from him. 

Last year, only two Brewers had an OBP better than Canha's - Yelich and Contreras. 

It's a bit frustrating losing a player who did something we needed. I realize that his salary, age, hitting ability (beyond getting on base) and position come into play. But it's disappointing to lose someone who could really contribute.

Oh well. 

Brewers need slugging from their 1B/DH far more than they need OBP.

[CheezWizHed]

I see a lot of worry about "rebuild", but I wonder why.  Do we actually want last year's offense on repeat? Yes, it was improved with Cahna and Santana, but it wasn't really great either.  

Canha was a great find last year and he played great for us.  But his 120 OPS+ wasn't going to last.   He'll more likely revert back to a 100-105 OPS+ guy with poor defense.  While his $11.5M might not be huge, his presence on the team limits our flexibility too.  Our best spots to improve our offense is at DH and 1B.  

People didn't like it when we trade for Canha, hated him 3 games into his Milwaukee career, and hate it when we trade him away...  Just be happy we caught lightning in a bottle and move on.  Watching NYM and the Padres should show that even the big pockets teams need to spend money smartly. Even more so with the Brewers.

 

[Pugger]

On 11/4/2023 at 8:52 PM, jay87shot said:

Santana is probably ideal at 1st if we aren't going to get a big name. Top notch defense and a passable bat. On top of that he is a switch hitter so we could give Yeli or Black some games there the 1st half and maybe get someone like Wilken some time at the end of the year. Basically he could platoon either handed or be a top notch PH if a young guy passes him up.

I don't think his clubhouse leadership is something to dismiss either.

[MrTPlush]

On 11/4/2023 at 4:53 PM, homer said:

Canha is 34 and played over his head offensively after the trade. I'm ok trying to fill 1st base another way. 

The guy has been incredibly consistent for years and he was barely above his career average and actually worse with us than he was in 2022. 

I am not going to lose sleep not paying a 35 year old $11mil, but I am not even remotely shocked another team was interested. What he did with us was hardly shocking or over his head. We must all be looking at different stats because another poster is saying he will revert to a 100-105 OPS+ guy...he hasn't posted an OPS+ over an entire year that low since 2017

 

[Outlander]

He was a 100 OPS guy with the Mets, he is 35, that is probably who he is or worse going forward. Age catches up with everybody.

[CheezWizHed]

1 hour ago, MrTPlush said:

The guy has been incredibly consistent for years and he was barely above his career average and actually worse with us than he was in 2022. 

I am not going to lose sleep not paying a 35 year old $11mil, but I am not even remotely shocked another team was interested. What he did with us was hardly shocking or over his head. We must all be looking at different stats because another poster is saying he will revert to a 100-105 OPS+ guy...he hasn't posted an OPS+ over an entire year that low since 2017

 

Yes, what Outlander said.  I'm projecting how I expect a 35 yo to age.  Average of 115 OPS+ on his career, peaked at 30, and posted 111, 122, 108 OPS+ the last three years.  Every player has a "bell-curve" to their production and I'm just projecting about where he will slide on the downside of his career.  Maybe I'm undershooting him with 100-105 OPS+, but I'd bet the under for 110 OPS+. 

The guy will be a decent asset for the Tigers (as he would've been for us).  But I'm more of the mindset that we should be rebuilding this year and looking for longer term assets. Canha is more a stop-gap player.  Other equivalent stop-gaps (Brandon Belt) are available, too. 

[Underachiever]

You're all forgetting that he will be teammates with Javy Baez, so the improvement in his tagging skills will be worth 1-2 WAR alone.

[brewcrewdue80]

Solid move imo. Still up in air where you play Black at the ML level. You have 4OFs and Chourio in short time. You have Quero with Contreras blocking him near end of 2024.  You don't have Miley. Burnes? Woodruff? 2 or 11.5M can be used towards a FA addition your depth needs more.  I feel one of Frelick, Wiemer, and Mitchell are in line to be moved due to Chourio and Yelich. Fill up Canha's spot in one of those moves.