Counsell to Cubs

[nate82]

7 minutes ago, TPlush said:

And then the Cubs paid $8 mil. Which is market rate according to your definition, and I agree :)

No it is not.  It would be above market rate.  Market rate takes the market as a whole.  If you have 5 houses and three are $300k and one is $400k and the other is $200k the market rates would be $300k not the $400k one nor would it be the $200k one.

Counsell was paid above marks rate and no changing it to being only one is not market rate either.

[Frisbee Slider]

Matthew Trueblood believes the 2023 Cubs would have won the NL Central if they had CC as their manager. 

Even in a vacuum, that seems far-fetched to me.

link

[True Blue Brew Crew]

6 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

First off, flattering you think I was even referring to you.

I am pretty sure I can use my opinion to say that some of these conspiracy theories are quite out there. I mean we got at least one person who pondered if Counsell went to the Cubs specifically to backstab us among other sinister theories.

I didn’t even say they shouldn’t be allowed or even say anything negative towards them. Just said they are quite off the deep end of takes with little to back them up.

I could pile on and excessively opine on your misunderstanding of "market rate" but I don't choose to call it "imagination" when people don't see things the same way as I do. But if that's what this forum wants, I can oblige. It's silly for you to be questioning the views of myself or whomever you were referring to, especially when you're saying some peculiar things yourself.

[Lathund]

TPlush might very well be a Mr, but he's not MrTPlush

[Sixtolezcano]

Let’s face it, managing in Milwaukee isn’t the “be all, end all” location that managers (or players) strive for to complete their career and cement their legacy. If you’re a doctor does working in Milwaukee enhance your career legacy if you have a job at Froedtert Hospital or the Mayo Clinic. Obviously Counsell doesn’t care if you like him or hate him, he doesn’t even know who you are and probably will never even meet you (unless you are stalking him). He is like 100% of us, he is only concerned primarily about himself and those close to him. Do you thinks he even gives a ratsazz if you boo him or even hate him, we are insignificant in his life and made no difference in his decision in taking a job with the Chicago Cubs and managing in Wrigley Field. Do you think he really cares if he is cut from the same cloth of anyone living in Milwaukee?

[homer]

Don't do this

 

 

[Vgmastr]

31 minutes ago, Frisbee Slider said:

Matthew Trueblood believes the 2023 Cubs would have won the NL Central if they had CC as their manager. 

Even in a vacuum, that seems far-fetched to me.

link

I don't believe that for a second.  Brewers were 29-18 in one run games and the Cubs were 21-24.  That's the difference between an elite bullpen and an average one.  We'll see if Counsell is still as good when he doesn't have that bullpen to rely on.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

7 minutes ago, Vgmastr said:

I don't believe that for a second.  Brewers were 29-18 in one run games and the Cubs were 21-24.  That's the difference between an elite bullpen and an average one.  We'll see if Counsell is still as good when he doesn't have that bullpen to rely on.

I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that the Cubs invest HEAVILY in the bullpen this offseason. They aren't going to hand a record contract to a new manager, only to handcuff one of his biggest strengths (pen management). The Cubs likely aren't going to be able to unearth dominant relievers out of seemingly thin air like the Brewers have done over the last decade, but they also have the money to spend on established relievers that the Brewers have never had.

[Samurai Bucky]

10 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

I can't blame CC for taking that kind of $$ no matter what team is crazy enough to offer it.  this 5 yr contract basically doubles his career earnings as a mlb player over 15 seasons - that's insanity for a manager contract.

This encompasses my thoughts as well.  If I were in his shoes, why would I not take the huge payday?

We have seen threads on this board calling for the Brewers to blow things up and rebuild.  If that is going to happen, why stick around?  The one thing that he has not accomplished as a manager is winning the World Series.  If there is a rebuild, then the Cubs are a better option.

It is also obvious that his decision making recently has been poor in the playoffs.  We collectively face palm, but then are frustrated when he leaves.

Now that it has been (almost) 24 hours, I'm ready to move on.  This still doesn't change the fact that the Brewers are so ridiculously young that you need more of a father figure in the dugout instead of an MLB manager.

[MrTPlush]

21 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that the Cubs invest HEAVILY in the bullpen this offseason. They aren't going to hand a record contract to a new manager, only to handcuff one of his biggest strengths (pen management). The Cubs likely aren't going to be able to unearth dominant relievers out of seemingly thin air like the Brewers have done over the last decade, but they also have the money to spend on established relievers that the Brewers have never had.

I would to, wouldn't want him to get too exposed for getting carried by elite bullpen arms. 

[StearnsFTW]

12 hours ago, Slippery_Pete said:

We'll never forget you, Greg.

As a man named Craig, this hits home.

[StearnsFTW]

50 minutes ago, homer said:

Don't do this

 

 

I agree.

 

I will admit I found it quite amusing in its simplicity.

 

[Pugger]

20 hours ago, brewers888 said:

Seriously screw Counsell for doing this to his hometown team.

I seriously believe a change in managers was overdue.  I think CC took this team as far as he could.  I hope we get someone from outside the organization from a winning culture.

[jhart05]

9 hours ago, jw5511986 said:

You can both recognize that you may have made the same choice and that it's a slap in the face of the fans of the team from the area you claim as your home. I promise they are not mutually exclusive thoughts.

I'm sure he realized that.  Who wouldn't.

But in the end, he made a financial business decision.  It's simply employment to all of them.

Take emotion out and insert logic.  

 

This pretty much encompasses why I have become sick of pro sports.  The salaries are outrageous for all of them.  Players, managers, all of them.  Especially in baseball where you have the huge salary disparity between large market and small market.  Someday it has to all come crashing down.

[Pugger]

20 hours ago, homer said:

this is worse than Favre to the Vikings

Favre went to MN because he felt betrayed after GB drafted Rodgers.  We offered CC the chance to be the highest paid manager in baseball but got outbid by a franchise with deep pockets.  No comparison IMO.

[TURBO]

2 hours ago, Frisbee Slider said:

This seems like a moment when we should agree to disagree on definition of market rates. 🙂

I wonder what the response has been from Cubs fans? Excitement, I assume.

Ask our resident Cubs fan, Matthew Trueblood....

[wallus]

1 hour ago, homer said:

Don't do this

 

 

Nope but this is hardly surprising. You can't lean into the hometown kid narrative as hard as CC did and then sign with the hated rivals. If I were CC, I would move out of the state. Although this will definitely die down over time.

[SeaBass]

2 hours ago, TPlush said:

And then the Cubs paid $8 mil. Which is market rate according to your definition, and I agree :)

I think you're trying to make the point that it's fair market value, which is true since the definition is it's a price someone is willing to pay.

Market rate is a standard price that is understood industry wide. CC's contract eclipses every other contract in the industry, therefore it can not be termed market rate. Yet.

[MVP2110]

While I'd never condone vandalism, if that's the worst that happens then it's really no big deal. There was always going to be alot of blowback on Counsell after marketing himself as a hometown hero and "one of us". As long as there is no real harassment of Counsell or his family then it's whatever to me and I'm not going to get that worked up over it

[TURBO]

In the end, had CC gone to anyone other than the Cubs (or Cardinals) I don't believe we'd see such disdain for the guy.

It's a kick to the crotch, a punch to the gut, etc. that he chose the Cubs.

We pretty much knew he was leaving, and I don't remember one poster here even thinking for a second it would be to the freaking Cubs.

When I first saw the news, I truly thought is was a joke, no way was he leaving for the Cubs,  lol

[brewers888]

I still think this is more than just taking the highest bid and that he just wanted out. Going to a rival really says that he wants to stick it to this owner and possibly Arnold as well.

[Pugger]

16 hours ago, Frisbee Slider said:

Any doubt Counsell wins Manager of the Year award tonight?

Why?  Managing the team only to get swept in 2 games in the WC round at home?

[Frisbee Slider]

1 minute ago, Pugger said:

Why?  Managing the team only to get swept in 2 games in the WC round at home?

CC is now a big-market manager, so understandably, he is now valuable.

[half blue]

[Outlander]

2 minutes ago, Pugger said:

Why?  Managing the team only to get swept in 2 games in the WC round at home?

Which means nothing since it is voted before the playoffs.

[TURBO]

9 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

I still think this is more than just taking the highest bid and that he just wanted out. Going to a rival really says that he wants to stick it to this owner and possibly Arnold as well.

Oh, I have no doubt in my mind he wanted out of Milwaukee.  All signs are pointing to that, he probably can't believe he gets to leave PLUS getting that kind of money.  It was a win-win for him I guess.

Not sure his goal was to stick it to anyone, but then again, that could easily be part of the equation as well.