2024 Divisional Rivals Thread

[KeithStone53151]

14 hours ago, BruisedCrew said:

The Cubs are putting another whipping on the Orioles as they move to pin down a sweep of that series. 
 

 

Honestly, good. They are perfectly set up to be that NBA team that's stuck as a consistent fringe 8 seed...and that is the absolute last place a franchise should want to be. Their core is mediocre and they have a chunk of prospects that could be 40 man casualties that I assume won't get a look if the Cubs go for that last wildcard spot. Going for it, for the Cubs, also definitely means buying at the deadline and further depleting their prospects. There's a world where the Cubs management can deal from the offseason 40 man casualties for upgrades now, but every team values those 40 man spots as well so that will be way easier said than done. The only big concern with them going for it, is CC can be pretty good with a bullpen and has gone on good runs in September. So it's possible a buy actually works, and then any team can get hot in October(unlike NBA where 8 seeds get consistently run over by 1 seeds).

[Jim French Stepstool]

4 hours ago, KeithStone53151 said:

Honestly, good. They are perfectly set up to be that NBA team that's stuck as a consistent fringe 8 seed...and that is the absolute last place a franchise should want to be. Their core is mediocre and they have a chunk of prospects that could be 40 man casualties that I assume won't get a look if the Cubs go for that last wildcard spot. Going for it, for the Cubs, also definitely means buying at the deadline and further depleting their prospects. There's a world where the Cubs management can deal from the offseason 40 man casualties for upgrades now, but every team values those 40 man spots as well so that will be way easier said than done. The only big concern with them going for it, is CC can be pretty good with a bullpen and has gone on good runs in September. So it's possible a buy actually works, and then any team can get hot in October(unlike NBA where 8 seeds get consistently run over by 1 seeds).

Nice post. Looking at it from the perspective of the entire division, I thought awhile back that I wouldn't be surprised if any of the other four teams in the division found themselves in 2nd place at some point (although the loss of Bellinger might make it a little tougher for one of them).

I agree with CC being a strong BP manager, but I think that's been a little watered down since the rule change where you have to face three batters. I also see using an opener as being a real weapon for teams these days when starters' innings pile up & I don't know If they're set up as well as others to do that.

[LouisEly]

Last night I caught a bit of the Cubs-Cardinals game.  Hendricks floated a 2-seamer middle-middle to Goldschmidt.  It didn't even make the warning track.

[Lathund]

Yeah I think Goldschmidt "getting going" again isn't a real concern. Age has finally caught up with him, the loss of bat speed is very real. Now players can compensate for some of that, and he proabably already has, but the old Goldy isn't coming back. 

As for the Cardinals in general I certainly wouldn't count them out, but their record also doesn't reflect their performance. Pythagorean record has lots of flaws, and small differences are meaningless, but the Cardinals are outperforming theirs by 6 wins. The run differential between the Brewers and Cardinals is over 100. When numbers get that big, they become meaningful. I also would not expect theirs, or any, pitching staff to remain as healthy as theirs has been so far. 

Brewers are the best team in the division, I think it's hard to argue that at this point. The issue that remains is that of course the best team doesn't always win; a slightly lesser team can easily be 4 games better over half a season. 

[Dragonbait]

On 7/9/2024 at 5:08 PM, Playing Catch said:

The Cardinals just went 5-2 against the Pirates and Nationals. Just imagine the meltdowns around here if the Crew goes 2-4 this week against the Pirates and the Nationals.

Just imagine the posts from the posters that secretly revere the Cardinals' history of being the class of the division.

Oh man, it could be unbearable. Brewers gotta win this week.

Can we blame you? 

[HarryDoyle]

We have another violation of The Cardinal Way.

Jim Edmonds takes shot at Christopher Morel's home-run celebration (awfulannouncing.com)

[KeithStone53151]

4 hours ago, HarryDoyle said:

We have another violation of The Cardinal Way.

Jim Edmonds takes shot at Christopher Morel's home-run celebration (awfulannouncing.com)

He showed emotion... fastball to the head incoming

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, KeithStone53151 said:

He showed emotion... fastball to the head incoming

I'll admit that Morels' behavior has bothered me a little in the past. It's nice to know my emotions are now justified as I'm aligned with the organization that's such a bastion of proper baseball behavior.

[Playing Catch]

Edmonds played 70-some games for Milwaukee late in his career...

Do you think him saying something like that would "fly" if he was in booth with Jeff Levering in say, 2027, or do you think the Brewers would boot him?

Obviously the "Cardinal Way," gets under the skin of many fun-loving Brewer fans, but do you think the Organization feels the same?

[sveumrules]

5.5 game lead on the Cardinals with the tiebreaker.

2.0 games back from the first round bye with the tiebreaker.

[Jopal78]

5 hours ago, Playing Catch said:

Edmonds played 70-some games for Milwaukee late in his career...

Do you think him saying something like that would "fly" if he was in booth with Jeff Levering in say, 2027, or do you think the Brewers would boot him?

Obviously the "Cardinal Way," gets under the skin of many fun-loving Brewer fans, but do you think the Organization feels the same?

What does Edmonds’ comment have to do with the “Cardinals Way?” 

I don’t think there is anything wrong with expressing annoyance that even the below average major league hitters have a homerun celebration now. After all, Morel’s OPS+ is 92.  Edmonds produced better than that in 16 of 17 seasons after breaking in as an everyday player in the majors.  

[KeithStone53151]

1 hour ago, Jopal78 said:

What does Edmonds’ comment have to do with the “Cardinals Way?” 

I don’t think there is anything wrong with expressing annoyance that even the below average major league hitters have a homerun celebration now. After all, Morel’s OPS+ is 92.  Edmonds produced better than that in 16 of 17 seasons after breaking in as an everyday player in the majors.  

Is being happy you hit a hr reserved for Judge and Ohtani? Everyone else can get mocked by former-Cardinal Edmonds?

[Playing Catch]

1 hour ago, Jopal78 said:

I don’t think there is anything wrong with expressing annoyance that even the below average major league hitters have a homerun celebration now.

You're correct. There is nothing wrong with expressing annoyance at celebrations. However, he does represent the Cardinals in the booth, and as such, he is a conduit for highlighting the "Cardinal Way," which is generally characterized by criticizing players from other teams for expressing joy for on-field exploits (as contrived as that can be these days), which is exactly what he did.

My question is, do you believe that the "Brewers Way," if you will, would NOT be annoyed at such contrivances? Or rather, do you believe future Brewers announcers would be allowed the same leeway to express their annoyance at opposing players for expressing themselves?

 

Also... Jim Edmonds is a tool.

[owbc]

1 hour ago, Jopal78 said:

What does Edmonds’ comment have to do with the “Cardinals Way?” 

I don’t think there is anything wrong with expressing annoyance that even the below average major league hitters have a homerun celebration now. After all, Morel’s OPS+ is 92.  Edmonds produced better than that in 16 of 17 seasons after breaking in as an everyday player in the majors.  

I'm curious what the OPS+ threshold should be for home run celebrations? Is it 100? 105? Also, is there a different threshold if it's the second HR in the game? 

[owbc]

41 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

Is being happy you hit a hr reserved for Judge and Ohtani? Everyone else can get mocked by former-Cardinal Edmonds?

No. There is also an upper threshold. Judge and Ohtani hit too many home runs, they have to act like they have been there before. No celebrations allowed for them either. 

[Jopal78]

15 minutes ago, Playing Catch said:

You're correct. There is nothing wrong with expressing annoyance at celebrations. However, he does represent the Cardinals in the booth, and as such, he is a conduit for highlighting the "Cardinal Way," which is generally characterized by criticizing players from other teams for expressing joy for on-field exploits (as contrived as that can be these days), which is exactly what he did.

My question is, do you believe that the "Brewers Way," if you will, would NOT be annoyed at such contrivances?

 

Also... Jim Edmonds is a tool.

Don’t all announcers have some degree of Homerism? I heard Rock and BA sing the praises of Dallas Keuchel on Saturday less than 24 hours before he was DFA’d. 
 

I don’t read anything into Edmonds comments other than a player from an older generation that doesn’t like the showboating in today’s game. He certainly would not be alone in his opinions amongst the fans either. 
 

 

[Playing Catch]

3 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Don’t all announcers have some degree of Homerism? I heard Rock and BA sing the praises of Dallas Keuchel on Saturday less than 24 hours before he was DFA’d. 
 

I don’t read anything into Edmonds comments other than a player from an older generation that doesn’t like the showboating in today’s game. He would not be alone in his opinions amongst fans either. 
 

 

Being that announcers engage in Homerism, do you think Edmonds's criticism then, supports the "Cardinals Way? Is he reflecting the values of his team and his fanbase with his criticism, or is he merely expressing a personal opinion? Do you believe those values are shared by the Brewers and their fans? Do you not agree that Edmonds is a tool?

[tmwiese55]

26 minutes ago, owbc said:

No. There is also an upper threshold. Judge and Ohtani hit too many home runs, they have to act like they have been there before. No celebrations allowed for them either. 

Unless you're wearing a Cardinals jersey, then its OK.  Pujols was one of the more egregious guys while also being the best hitter in the league at the time

[Jopal78]

6 hours ago, Playing Catch said:

Being that announcers engage in Homerism, do you think Edmonds's criticism then, supports the "Cardinals Way? Is he reflecting the values of his team and his fanbase with his criticism, or is he merely expressing a personal opinion? Do you believe those values are shared by the Brewers and their fans? Do you not agree that Edmonds is a tool?

To me his comments sound exactly Like what I said, a ball player from a different generation criticizing the way the kids play the game now.  Not sure what the “Cardinals Way” is other than a phrase used to mock the team. 

I’m sure there are plenty of Brewers fans who think there is too much showboating, celebrating in the game today too.

No idea if Edmonds is a tool or not. Was a terrific ball player, who even had a strong season at age 40 with a forgettable Milwaukee team in 2010

 

[Baldkin]

2 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

To me his comments sound exactly Like what I said, a ball player from a different generation criticizing the way the kids play the game now.  Not sure what the “Cardinals Way” is other than a phrase used to mock the team. 

I’m sure there are plenty of Brewers fans who think there is too much showboating, celebrating in the game today too.

No idea if Edmonds is a tool or not. Was a terrific ball player, who even had a strong season at age 40 with a forgettable Milwaukee team in 2010

 

The Cardinals Way is their organizational philosophy of "We're the best, because we say we're the best" which also floods into their fandom, and the media with just how classy their organization is. 

 

It's also a crappy book written akin to Moneyball, but geared specifically to pilfer the wallets of Cardinals fans who are also Rubes. 

 

The Cardinals Way has been around since LaRussa was passing out drunk while driving, encouraging steroid use and ordering pitchers to bean opposing hitters if they dared throw inside to Pujols. 

 

It's been around since they hacked the Houston Astros player database. 

 

We mock it here for the pompous arrogance that their fans and organization continue to show and continue to be propped up to by the media. 

[markedman5]

Craig seems to enjoying himself………even after a win…..lol

 

[markedman5]

 

[Playing Catch]

With the trade-deadline approaching, I'm checking in on the longer-term plans for the division.

The Cardinals rotation can't ALL be healthy the WHOLE season, can they? That rotation was put together to contend THIS season, not next. I have to think they're looking for rentals and perhaps try to sign a couple free agents this off-season. They're in pretty good shape, salary-wise. Other than Arenado, Contreras, and Gray, no one else is committed long-term, but they are currently merely $1M shy of last season's record high opening day payroll.

The Cubs are in a weird spot, both now and in the off-season. I understand that they are committed to a number of players for the foreseeable future, but should they be? If I'm Hoyer, and I'm punting on 2024, I think I would consider a more significant re-build. Not because they need more prospects or young players as much as they just need different players. Their lineup is filled with decent or better starting major league players, but obviously, the combination of players isn't working. Replacing Wisdom, Morel, one of their outfielders. They need a catcher badly. I just don't see a bunch of winners there. Both Taillon and Hendricks are signed through 2026. At $214M, they are currently sporting their record-high opening day payroll.

The Reds need more pitching and to get healthy. I have to think they'll be better next season no matter what. They are $36M under their record high opening day payroll in 2019.

The Pirates rotation is scary good at the top, but any sort of injury issue there, and what else can they lean on to scratch out wins? A good bullpen, I guess. They are $14M shy of their record-high opening day payroll in 2016.

The Brewers have been beat-up with a below-average starting rotation all season, and their bullpen hasn't been lights-out, but their lineup has been collectively strong. It is hard for me to imagine that the Brewers won't be better in 2025. William Contreras and Megill are the only significant pay increases next season as they will be in their first arbitration season. They are currently $28M under their record high opening day payroll from 2022.

[Team Canada]

On 7/23/2024 at 11:38 AM, Playing Catch said:

At $214M, they are currently sporting their record-high opening day payroll.

Exhibit A on how payroll does not equal talent. 

I agree, they just needs some different players, and it's crazy to me that they managed to set a payroll record with such a mediocre collection of talent.

[Underachiever]

Rowdy just hit one into the Allegheny. Pirates up 5-0