Injury updates

[Jim French Stepstool]

On 6/1/2024 at 5:55 PM, NOMAAM said:

Question about Junis.  How long would it take him to ramp up as a SP.?  3 weeks.  Think it would be a waste if he’s only a 3 inng guy.

Junis threw 2 scoreless innings (21 pitches) Tuesday night for Nashville. I would think one more start down there, then either another one or a piggyback w/.............by that time, who knows? Wilson? Clarke? Hall? Ross?

Oliver Drake?

[wiguy94]

1 minute ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Junis threw 2 scoreless innings (21 pitches) Tuesday night for Nashville. I would think one more start down there, then either another one or a piggyback w/.............by that time, who knows? Wilson? Clarke? Hall? Ross?

Oliver Drake?

Junis velo was way down tonight, so not sure if he’s really that close to being ready. 

[BruisedCrew]

On 5/31/2024 at 9:44 PM, Frisbee Slider said:

Corbin Burnes was DL Hall before DL Hall? 🤷‍♂️

 

Burnes showed something in 2018 that Hall has not yet shown in his career. 

Nobody would be comparing the two if they didn’t happen to be involved in the same trade. 

[CheezWizHed]

37 minutes ago, BruisedCrew said:

Burnes showed something in 2018 that Hall has not yet shown in his career. 

Nobody would be comparing the two if they didn’t happen to be involved in the same trade. 

No one is saying Hall is going to be Burnes, just that he can still be a successful MLB SP (granted, most people didn't think Burnes would become ace Burnes until he did).  However, there are some similarities. 

• Burnes didn't get a significant SP role until 25 years old.  Hall is 25 this year.
• Burnes struggled greatly with control before his breakout; Hall - same. (Though Hall has struggled in the minors on that too, unlike Burnes).
• Both were on the top 100 prospect list, but not in the elite. 

Hall has had 33 IP in the majors before coming to the Brewers with one start.   That is a pretty small sample. 

This year, most suspect his FB deficiencies this year to be related to this injury.  HIs certainly didn't resemble his scouting profile and its more than just losing a couple MPH on the FB for starting.  Scouting report had him at mid-90s starting and hitting triple digits in relief. He was more like 90-91 this year. 

I'm more than happy to let him get a decent sample size as a starter before we push him into relief.  HIs value is so much higher there. 

[Frisbee Slider]

1 hour ago, BruisedCrew said:

Burnes showed something in 2018 that Hall has not yet shown in his career. 

Nobody would be comparing the two if they didn’t happen to be involved in the same trade. 

Burnes had 2.61 ERA in 38 IP in 2018. 8.3 K/9. 3.79 FIP

Hall had 3.26 ERA in 19.1 IP in 2023. 10.7 K/9. 3.00 FIP 

Both were excellent during their post season debuts.

I don’t think there was a tremendous difference between the start of their careers.

[BruisedCrew]

1 hour ago, Frisbee Slider said:

Burnes had 2.61 ERA in 38 IP in 2018. 8.3 K/9. 3.79 FIP

Hall had 3.26 ERA in 19.1 IP in 2023. 10.7 K/9. 3.00 FIP 

Both were excellent during their post season debuts.

I don’t think there was a tremendous difference between the start of their careers.

Burnes had twice as many innings in 2018 as Hall had last year. That may not be tremendous, but IMHO it is pretty significant. He had several outings covering more than 1 inning and a WHIP of 1.00 compared to Hall’s 1.19.

Burnes was also making his MLB debut in 2018 while Hall had a pretty rough career debut in 2022.

I too am willing to wait for Hall to pitch more before classifying him. But the discussion here is mostly about what to do with him this year if the Brewers are in a playoff chase. There’s a big question mark over whether he will be ready to contribute as a starter this year. 

I’ll go out on a limb and say Hall won’t  be winning the Cy Young award in 2026. I actually think comparing him to Burnes is a disservice to him. In the short term once he’s physically able I think he would be better placed in the bullpen. Unless something changes dramatically the Brewers are going to have plenty of use for pitchers to come in from the bullpen and pitch multiple innings  

 

 

[markedman5]

Hits just keep on coming………

 

[BrewerFan]

On 6/5/2024 at 9:07 AM, CheezWizHed said:

No one is saying Hall is going to be Burnes, just that he can still be a successful MLB SP (granted, most people didn't think Burnes would become ace Burnes until he did).  However, there are some similarities. 

• Burnes didn't get a significant SP role until 25 years old.  Hall is 25 this year.
• Burnes struggled greatly with control before his breakout; Hall - same. (Though Hall has struggled in the minors on that too, unlike Burnes).
• Both were on the top 100 prospect list, but not in the elite. 

Hall has had 33 IP in the majors before coming to the Brewers with one start.   That is a pretty small sample. 

This year, most suspect his FB deficiencies this year to be related to this injury.  HIs certainly didn't resemble his scouting profile and its more than just losing a couple MPH on the FB for starting.  Scouting report had him at mid-90s starting and hitting triple digits in relief. He was more like 90-91 this year. 

I'm more than happy to let him get a decent sample size as a starter before we push him into relief.  HIs value is so much higher there. 

I'm with you on almost all of this, BUT...not the bolded section. That was a HUGE reason why we were so optimistic even after losing to the Dodgers. We had a pair of top 100 prospects who were coming in, throwing upper 90s and going 2-4 innings and just overpowering.

Even that season when Burnes was all off, I've never seen a fanbase stick with a guy and still remain as confident in him.

 

BUT, we saw him and saw what he could do. We didn't see Hall last year throwing out of the Pen, so I get why people wouldn't be quite as high. 

I'd imagine if we saw Hall throwing at his best, we'd have more people willing to go through these injuries and give him more turns in the rotation. 

[CheezWizHed]

On 6/10/2024 at 6:45 PM, BrewerFan said:

I'm with you on almost all of this, BUT...not the bolded section. That was a HUGE reason why we were so optimistic even after losing to the Dodgers. We had a pair of top 100 prospects who were coming in, throwing upper 90s and going 2-4 innings and just overpowering.

Even that season when Burnes was all off, I've never seen a fanbase stick with a guy and still remain as confident in him.

 

BUT, we saw him and saw what he could do. We didn't see Hall last year throwing out of the Pen, so I get why people wouldn't be quite as high. 

I'd imagine if we saw Hall throwing at his best, we'd have more people willing to go through these injuries and give him more turns in the rotation. 

Remember at this point in Burnes' career (i.e. age 25 season), he was coming off a disastrous season: 8.82 ERA, 51 ERA+, 1.8 WHIP.  Many people thought he was going to be a BP only guy for many of the same arguments.  

I was still confident that we needed to have him start (and I was also very high on him all the way through the MiLB ratings too). But many people (at that time) doubted it.  Once he put together his age 25 season, he was pretty primed to have a great year when he won the Cy Young at age 26.  But many pitchers like Burnes have all the skills but can't put it all together.  Manny Parra is a good example of someone that couldn't just get it done when the lights were brightest.  Being an ace at the MLB level is much more than just the skills. 

Further, in 2018 (last time Burnes was on a prospect list), he was listed at #69 of the top 100 and below Keston Huira.  Comments were about him "probably" returning to the lineup.  In 2017, he was #21 of the Brewer's top 30.  He wasn't very highly thought of (i.e. ACE level) until 2020 when he broke out and cemented it in 2021 with the Cy Young.

[brewcrewdue80]

Why don't we move the Burnes/Hall comments in to their trade thread and not here.

[Jastro]

 

[wiguy94]

Uribe needs surgery on his right meniscus. Hasn't been officially ruled out for the year. 

[AKCheesehead]

I hadn’t heard about a knee issue with Uribe. Hopefully it’s just a cleanup and he can get back to pitching and pitching better this summer. 

[markedman5]

 

[Underachiever]

2 minutes ago, markedman5 said:

 

Oh cool! I give up with hoping for positive injury news.

[Fear The Chorizo]

1 hour ago, markedman5 said:

 

Sometimes being injured is the one thing you can count on a pitcher trying to get off the injured list for, unfortunately.

[BrewerFan]

On 6/11/2024 at 8:34 AM, CheezWizHed said:

Remember at this point in Burnes' career (i.e. age 25 season), he was coming off a disastrous season: 8.82 ERA, 51 ERA+, 1.8 WHIP.  Many people thought he was going to be a BP only guy for many of the same arguments.  

I was still confident that we needed to have him start (and I was also very high on him all the way through the MiLB ratings too). But many people (at that time) doubted it.  Once he put together his age 25 season, he was pretty primed to have a great year when he won the Cy Young at age 26.  But many pitchers like Burnes have all the skills but can't put it all together.  Manny Parra is a good example of someone that couldn't just get it done when the lights were brightest.  Being an ace at the MLB level is much more than just the skills. 

Further, in 2018 (last time Burnes was on a prospect list), he was listed at #69 of the top 100 and below Keston Huira.  Comments were about him "probably" returning to the lineup.  In 2017, he was #21 of the Brewer's top 30.  He wasn't very highly thought of (i.e. ACE level) until 2020 when he broke out and cemented it in 2021 with the Cy Young.

I do remember that...pretty vividly. I remember there was an inordinate amount of confidence in Burnes and Woodruff. And when he was coming off that disastrous season, we still saw absolutely filthy stuff AND we'd seen him dominate in longer stretches. And I also remember he wasn't rated as highly as a prospect because he came up so relatively fast, but he was a top-50 prospect 2 years after being drafted. And he was fairly refined by then. He wasn't a Misiorowski-type prospect who have that huge boom or bust, he was more refined and a guy who just had a very high ceiling. 

I'm in total agreement about waiting on Hall and allowing him to take a normal progression and that a rough start going from the pen to the rotation can be tough and there's NO reason to give up or really be down on him after such a short sample size. I agree with your larger point. 

But, specific to Burnes, I don't think I can recall a fanbase that was so united behind a player who was struggling and confident that he'd figure it out. Burnes was just giving in and had a hugely inflated HR-to-FB ratio, he had a BABIP that...not even looking I'd be shocked if it wasn't .370-.400. 

In fairness, I wasn't following Brewers Twitter or other social media sites at the time, so when you saw he wasn't thought of highly or as an ace or whatever, if you're talking about outside this community...then sure. But this board was particularly bullish on Burnes, Fangraphs and other sites seemed to remain pretty bullish on him. 

 

But...the larger point, the Brewers have to be patient with Hall and try and let him work out any issues FIRST as a starter. Even if it's only in 3-4 inning stretches early, he's got a great arm and it just takes a while for things to click for different players. 

[BrewerFan]

On 6/14/2024 at 6:56 PM, wiguy94 said:

Uribe needs surgery on his right meniscus. Hasn't been officially ruled out for the year. 

So his stupidity and running his mouth has cost him a year or service time and....what, 600K? Would have made 740K this year...now he's on the AAA salary. 

I don't think he's sent down if he's not facing a 5-game-suspension, but perhaps I'm wrong about that, he wasn't dominating. 

Still bullish on him being the future closer for the Brewers or at least a dominant reliever, but needs to refine a few things and grow up. 

 

[CheezWizHed]

16 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

In fairness, I wasn't following Brewers Twitter or other social media sites at the time, so when you saw he wasn't thought of highly or as an ace or whatever, if you're talking about outside this community...then sure. But this board was particularly bullish on Burnes, Fangraphs and other sites seemed to remain pretty bullish on him. 

It was here and reputable scouting sites.  Highest I could find for Burnes was at #69 out of 100 (as I referenced above).

And there is a difference between "confidence in Burnes being a good SP at the MLB level" and "confidence that Burnes was going to be an ACE pitcher".

The context of my comment was that few people expected Burnes to be an ACE before he became an ACE. Most of the discussion in 2019 (Hall's equivalent to 2023) was "would Burnes be a starter" not "would Burnes be an ACE".

[BrewerFan]

1 minute ago, CheezWizHed said:

It was here and reputable scouting sites.  Highest I could find for Burnes was at #69 out of 100 (as I referenced above).

And there is a difference between "confidence in Burnes being a good SP at the MLB level" and "confidence that Burnes was going to be an ACE pitcher".

The context of my comment was that few people expected Burnes to be an ACE before he became an ACE. Most of the discussion in 2019 (Hall's equivalent to 2023) was "would Burnes be a starter" not "would Burnes be an ACE".

There is a difference and I'm saying I think there were quite a few people who thought Burnes would be an ace. 

And he was #46 headed into 2019 on BA(likely higher on many mid-season, but not going to spend a lot of time looking).

 

But as I said, I agree with you concerning Hall. He's had a little bit of a start-and-stop type of development and he was a prep arm, so it's a longer road as a prospect, he's got great stuff though and I don't think the Brewers are making the Burnes trade unless they really liked Hall and thought he had a good chance to start. I'm not all that worried about him. Get him healthy, get him out there for 2-3-4 innings at a time as he builds his arm strength back and the Brewers have a pretty solid track record at this point of getting the most out of their young arms. 

[markedman5]

 

[tmwiese55]

Popped in my head on the acquiring pitching posts in other threads. But have they 100% said Woodruff won't pitch this year?  I think they have but couldn't remember for sure.      Popped in my head as if they did plan on getting his rehab started that with their current lead they should be able to keep scrambling their way to winning the division and then maybe have the last month to build up Woodruff by playoffs.  But I think they said they're not gonna bother trying that and will play fully safe and target next year?

[Fear The Chorizo]

11 minutes ago, tmwiese55 said:

Popped in my head on the acquiring pitching posts in other threads. But have they 100% said Woodruff won't pitch this year?  I think they have but couldn't remember for sure.      Popped in my head as if they did plan on getting his rehab started that with their current lead they should be able to keep scrambling their way to winning the division and then maybe have the last month to build up Woodruff by playoffs.  But I think they said they're not gonna bother trying that and will play fully safe and target next year?

Woodruff himself said 2024 was going to be a full-on rehab year.  Interesting thought, but I'd prefer they stick to that plan with him to give as much chance as possible that Woody is a rotation mainstay for 2025.

[Thurston Fluff]

20 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Woodruff himself said 2024 was going to be a full-on rehab year.  Interesting thought, but I'd prefer they stick to that plan with him to give as much chance as possible that Woody is a rotation mainstay for 2025.

I think Woody is probably not going to be anywhere near what he has been next year. not that he won't every get close to it again but next year is going to be about getting used to the inevitable changes surgery does to a shoulder. That's why the 2026 option is nice to have.

[Underachiever]

1 hour ago, tmwiese55 said:

Popped in my head on the acquiring pitching posts in other threads. But have they 100% said Woodruff won't pitch this year?  I think they have but couldn't remember for sure.      Popped in my head as if they did plan on getting his rehab started that with their current lead they should be able to keep scrambling their way to winning the division and then maybe have the last month to build up Woodruff by playoffs.  But I think they said they're not gonna bother trying that and will play fully safe and target next year?

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/brandon-woodruff-injury-update-brewers-two-time-all-star-wont-pitch-in-2024-following-shoulder-surgery/#:~:text=Milwaukee Brewers right-hander Brandon,miss most of the year.

Milwaukee Brewers right-hander Brandon Woodruff will not pitch in 2024 as he recovers from last fall's shoulder surgery. Woodruff, who required maintenance on the anterior capsule in his right shoulder, had originally been expected to miss most of the year. He recently conceded that he'll focus instead on coming back strong in 2025.