Impending Roster Crunch?

[Playing Catch]

With Black and Blalock coming back up for the 2nd time this season, and Garrett Mitchell coming to the end of his IL stint, and with the trade deadline and prospect-promotion time coming, I thought it time to continue the on and off discussion that has spanned the last 18 months or so.

Now that some of the prospects are beginning to take shape as big leaguers, and with more prospects in the pipeline, what challenges do we see with playing time, and how should the Brewers address them?

- What to do with the outfield?
- Should the team consider trading off of the MLB roster?
- Should the team be planning on any September call-ups in preparation for 2025?
- Are there any 40-man challenges (e.g. rule-5 guys that will need rostering, guys that exhausted their last option in '24)

I think figuring out the outfield mix, and figuring out what to do with Black are important. I wonder if Black is coming up as a pre-trade audition. I just don't see him fitting anywhere on the roster in the next couple of seasons. I think Frelick is an excellent candidate to be moved, but ONLY if Mitchell can remain healthy. Can Frelick legitimately play 3rd base?

 

This is a lot to chew on for one thread, but I think you get the idea.

[umphrey]

Maybe Frelick or Chourio can go down to AAA for a bit?

 

Was also wondering about the pitching. I think Ross, Junis and Hall are expected to come back this summer, and it's kind of a weird spot because yes we need them, no we can't afford to get rid of much starting pitching to make room, and further we will probably want to trade for 1 or 2 guys.

[Team Canada]

Although they haven't needed Frelick at 3B this year with the emergence of Ortiz, I bet we see that shift in earnest next year with Ortiz moving to SS, at least until we have a better option emerge.

[HarveysWBs]

2 minutes ago, Team Canada said:

Although they haven't needed Frelick at 3B this year with the emergence of Ortiz, I bet we see that shift in earnest next year with Ortiz moving to SS, at least until we have a better option emerge.

Yeah, I was thinking pretty much exactly this. Next year will probably relieve a lot of the logjam simply by Adames departing.

As for this year, I’m not concerned about Mitchell spending ample time on the farm. He’s nice insurance to have if somebody gets hurt, or Perkins comes back to earth, but I wouldn’t swap him in for anyone else right now. Chourio seems to be steadily finding his way, and the pros of letting him figure it out far outweigh the short-term possibility that Mitchell outperforms him some to my mind.

The tricky thing is pitching. We need arms, everybody always wants arms, and starters are likely to be pricey. If someone loved Mitchell or Black, I wouldn’t be opposed to a deal for a starter that wasn’t a rental, but I’m not sure that deal is out there to be had. Moving Frelick is tougher because of his versatility and floor. The wildcard might be Hoskins. If he gets hot, and knowing he’s not here long-term, would the brass have the stones to move him for a starter amidst a pennant chase? Or has the fallout from the Hader deal cooled their heels?

I fully expect another deadline of only minor bullpen bolstering, followed by angst, gnashing of teeth, and recriminations. 

[tmwiese55]

Yea a lot that could go into this discussion.  I'd guess in the short term that injuries sort some of it out along with reminding that at this point no OFs have yet to lay a claim as locked in proven starting caliber hitters. If they're confident in MItchell and want to get him some ABs I'd just swap him and Frelick for a bit. Lets Frelick get tons of low pressure ABs/practice until an inevitable injury happens bringing him back up.  See how Mitchell does up here for a few weeks. 

But mostly was gonna add for Black's long term spot, (I think OP said they didn't see where he fit longer term),   I think I'd look at him as directly taking Bauer's spot next year, heck maybe in the next few weeks if they let Bauers go.  Get him to be emergency competent at 2B/3B/OF but primarily getting a lot of starts vs RHP at 1B/DH.  Seems his spot to step in is kinda clear. 

[TURBO]

5 hours ago, Team Canada said:

Although they haven't needed Frelick at 3B this year with the emergence of Ortiz, I bet we see that shift in earnest next year with Ortiz moving to SS, at least until we have a better option emerge.

I sure hope not.

We have Wilken and Boeve coming up the pike, Frelick's bat does not play at 3B.

 

[duewizard]

5 hours ago, Playing Catch said:

With Black and Blalock coming back up for the 2nd time this season, and Garrett Mitchell coming to the end of his IL stint, and with the trade deadline and prospect-promotion time coming, I thought it time to continue the on and off discussion that has spanned the last 18 months or so.

Now that some of the prospects are beginning to take shape as big leaguers, and with more prospects in the pipeline, what challenges do we see with playing time, and how should the Brewers address them?

- What to do with the outfield?
- Should the team consider trading off of the MLB roster?
- Should the team be planning on any September call-ups in preparation for 2025?
- Are there any 40-man challenges (e.g. rule-5 guys that will need rostering, guys that exhausted their last option in '24)

I think figuring out the outfield mix, and figuring out what to do with Black are important. I wonder if Black is coming up as a pre-trade audition. I just don't see him fitting anywhere on the roster in the next couple of seasons. I think Frelick is an excellent candidate to be moved, but ONLY if Mitchell can remain healthy. Can Frelick legitimately play 3rd base?

 

This is a lot to chew on for one thread, but I think you get the idea.

Rule 5 eligible guys as far as I know (from Fangraphs). Not 100% sure all the guys here are eligible so please do correct me.:

AAA- Nick Kahle, Freddy Zamora, Isaac Collins, Chavez Young, Noah Campbell, Evan McKendry, Garrett Stallings, Harold Chirino, Nick Bennett, Nolan Blackwood, Wes Clarke, Chad Patrick, Blake Holub.

AA- Darrien Miller, Zavier Warren, Andy Yerzy, Ernesto Martínez Jr, Felix Valerio, Eduardo García, Casey Martin, Carlos D Rodríguez (OF), Coleman Crow, Adam Seminaris, TJ Shook, Brandon Knarr, Justin Yeager, Sam Carlson, Ethan Murray, Logan Henderson, Shane Smith, Russell Smith

A+- Ramón Rodríguez, Jesus Chirinos, Jheremy Vargas, Eduarqui Fernandez, Terrence Doston, Yujanyer Herrera, Edwin Jimenez, Alexander Cornielle, Stiven Cruz, Tayden Hall, Yerlin Rodríguez

A- Blayberg Díaz, José Acosta, Miguel Briceno, Jeferson Figueroa, Quinton Low, Alexander Valencillo

Guys that I think could be protected in the MLB phase- Collins, Campbell, McKendry, Stallings, Chirino,  Clarke, Holub, Henderson, Yeager.

[rickh150]

Perkins could be the odd man out in the OF.  He can be optioned down and kept as insurance. Mitchell, Frelick, Chourio, and Yelich (and Perkins) can split time in the OF for the next what….4 years! 

I can’t imagine this team not trading for at least one SP, even if it is last minute before the deadline and only involves a last place team’s 3rd or 4th best pitcher on an expiring contract. Better yet, adding another top starter for the 2024 and 2025 season would look really good though…a definite need this season and a great piece for next year’s rotation along with Woodruff, hopefully.  

[igor67]

I think there is something of a horse race between Mitchell, Chourio, Frelick, and Black. All of them could potentially stick if Black does enough to make Bauers go away, but outside of that the worst performing one likely gets sent down, though Chourio batting right handed makes that less likely if it is close. My guess is that Black probably goes back down. Perkins has just done too much to be in that category anytime soon. If Mitchell had Perkins OBP skills........

[liveforoctober]

I don't think we can entertain the thought of Perkins somehow being the odd man out. Using Fangraphs numbers he has the 6th highest WAR on the team this year. He isn't leaving anytime soon. Giving Frelick or Mitchell consistent at bats in AAA isn't a bad thing and we will likely need whoever is down there at some point anyway bc of injuries.

I can't imagine Bauers would get claimed if DFA'd? There is at least a possiblity we could stash him in AAA for the remainder of the year in case of an emergency. Black just needs to show mild competence at the MLB level and he should have Bauers at bats the rest of the year IMO.

[Team Canada]

6 hours ago, TURBO said:

We have Wilken and Boeve coming up the pike, Frelick's bat does not play at 3B.

 

Oh I agree, but that probably isn't the start of the year.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

16 hours ago, duewizard said:

Rule 5 eligible guys as far as I know (from Fangraphs). Not 100% sure all the guys here are eligible so please do correct me.:

AAA- Nick Kahle, Freddy Zamora, Isaac Collins, Chavez Young, Noah Campbell, Evan McKendry, Garrett Stallings, Harold Chirino, Nick Bennett, Nolan Blackwood, Wes Clarke, Chad Patrick, Blake Holub.

AA- Darrien Miller, Zavier Warren, Andy Yerzy, Ernesto Martínez Jr, Felix Valerio, Eduardo García, Casey Martin, Carlos D Rodríguez (OF), Coleman Crow, Adam Seminaris, TJ Shook, Brandon Knarr, Justin Yeager, Sam Carlson, Ethan Murray, Logan Henderson, Shane Smith, Russell Smith

A+- Ramón Rodríguez, Jesus Chirinos, Jheremy Vargas, Eduarqui Fernandez, Terrence Doston, Yujanyer Herrera, Edwin Jimenez, Alexander Cornielle, Stiven Cruz, Tayden Hall, Yerlin Rodríguez

A- Blayberg Díaz, José Acosta, Miguel Briceno, Jeferson Figueroa, Quinton Low, Alexander Valencillo

Guys that I think could be protected in the MLB phase- Collins, Campbell, McKendry, Stallings, Chirino,  Clarke, Holub, Henderson, Yeager.

Fairly certain Tayden Hall has another year. He was drafted in 2022. Low and Vallecillo are also safe as they were 18 when drafted/signed in 2021.  The rest look correct, though some of those may be minor league FAs.

Logan Henderson is the only clear "must protect" at this point. There are a number of intriguing pitchers like Shane Smith, Coleman Crow, Yeager, Cornielle, Patrick, Hererra.  The downside is that there will be few 40 man roster spots open.  With all the 60 IL players we have, free agent departures will not be enough to make room. There will have to be some tough choices this fall.

[82brewcrew82]

18 hours ago, TURBO said:

I sure hope not.

We have Wilken and Boeve coming up the pike, Frelick's bat does not play at 3B.

 

Presumably the Brewers will be attempting to be in contention next year and we all know how heavily they emphasize defense.  I think it's silly to think that Frelick is going to play any amount of considerable time at third out of the blue next year.  If they had any serious notion of him getting earnest playing time there he would get some blow out innings or something by this point.

[shanedog19]

I’m of the position that Mitchell needs to brought up and be our everyday CF. The same commitment should be made with Chourio playing everyday: Perkins has been a nice story, but for this team to reach its ultimate ceiling, a full commitment to our young players needs to be made. Mitchell comes with a first round pedigree and all the tools to be an all-star caliber player, and we haven’t been able to see him play extensively due to injury: Yelich should consider a move to 1B, which would solve our offensive black hole at that position and open up another spot on the OF.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

Players who will burn their last option this year are: Taylor Clarke, Owen Miller, Vinny Capra, and Janson Junk. I imagine that will play heavily into whether they will be tendered a contract at the end of the year.  I don't think any of these guys are "must keep on roster" next year.  Taylor is intriguing since he has been worked as a starter. I presume he will get a callup in the second half to see what he can do.

[Playing Catch]

35 minutes ago, 82brewcrew82 said:

Presumably the Brewers will be attempting to be in contention next year and we all know how heavily they emphasize defense.  I think it's silly to think that Frelick is going to play any amount of considerable time at third out of the blue next year.  If they had any serious notion of him getting earnest playing time there he would get some blow out innings or something by this point.

I agree with all of this, with the only "hope" being that maybe he's better there than any of us realize? Even if he's just passable, perhaps that would allow him to gain some additional flexibility at 2nd, making him an option as a super-sub, which would take a little pressure off his bat to need to perform.

 

30 minutes ago, shanedog19 said:

I’m of the position that Mitchell needs to brought up and be our everyday CF

He's looked awesome in the few MLB at bats he's had, but in my opinion, he hasn't done it long enough for me to call for him to be a sure-fire every day starter.

2 hours ago, ClosetBrewerFan said:

Logan Henderson is the only clear "must protect" at this point. There are a number of intriguing pitchers like Shane Smith, Coleman Crow, Yeager, Cornielle, Patrick, Hererra.

Yes to all of this. Logan Henderson has been fantastic, and those other guys are probably good enough to stick in a big-league bullpen. I also worry that a bad team like the A's would grab one of those young pitchers in Carolina.

[duewizard]

2 hours ago, ClosetBrewerFan said:

Fairly certain Tayden Hall has another year. He was drafted in 2022. Low and Vallecillo are also safe as they were 18 when drafted/signed in 2021.  The rest look correct, though some of those may be minor league FAs.

Logan Henderson is the only clear "must protect" at this point. There are a number of intriguing pitchers like Shane Smith, Coleman Crow, Yeager, Cornielle, Patrick, Hererra.  The downside is that there will be few 40 man roster spots open.  With all the 60 IL players we have, free agent departures will not be enough to make room. There will have to be some tough choices this fall.

Thanks. Fangraphs shows them all as eligible December 2024.

Henserson 100%. I like Yeager or Smith because I feel they could be decent in the bullpen. Chirino I think is with this group too. Herrera and Jimenez are not ready yet but as Playing Catch says, they might get stolen by the Sox or A's. I would put Patrick, Stallings and McKendry in the same group of starting depth. Crow might be worth protecting if only because he cost us Houser and Taylor. Clarke could be a decent contributor too so maybe him. 

The others I would not really mind if they got taken.

[igor67]

I want all the OFers to hit their ceilings, but the high OBP best defense of Perkins at this point is hard to straight trade out for the continued promise that Garret can keep being successful with all that swing and miss. If he keeps showing good things in his rehab at AAA he has absolutely earned the right to try with regular ABs and between the DH and general off days having 4 regular OFs is pretty doable even if Chourio or Mitchell really start to rake.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

Apart from some significant performances, both Perkins and Frelick have hit poorly recently.  I see redundancy between the two.  I'd like to see Frelick optioned to AAA to work on his hitting. Mitchell has been crushing it in his rehab including keeping the strikeouts down (Small sample alert).  I'd like to see what Mitchell can do in the majors in hopefully a longer stretch.

[Underachiever]

1 hour ago, shanedog19 said:

I’m of the position that Mitchell needs to brought up and be our everyday CF. The same commitment should be made with Chourio playing everyday: Perkins has been a nice story, but for this team to reach its ultimate ceiling, a full commitment to our young players needs to be made. Mitchell comes with a first round pedigree and all the tools to be an all-star caliber player, and we haven’t been able to see him play extensively due to injury: Yelich should consider a move to 1B, which would solve our offensive black hole at that position and open up another spot on the OF.

He's never stated it, but it seems pretty clear that Yelich doesn't want to play first base. And if he doesn't, I don't know how much of an option it is. And he might be a terrible first baseman. Who knows at this point?

Arnold stated in December that Yelich would remain in the outfield, and I doubt that he was talking without getting CY's input on the matter. I don't think there has been any news about him working out at 1B, so my guess is that Yelich is using his status as a veteran to quash that talk. 

[brewmann04]

I think the Crew will use the Excess Of and Relievers depth to use as trade bait.

[Outlander]

Regarding Frelick, I missed it but he had a horrendous strikeout call against him on Wednesday. I don't know if there is any way to get information like this for the season but if umps are calling the high strike against Frelick it could be a contributing factor to some of his struggles this season. 

 

[shanedog19]

43 minutes ago, Underachiever said:

He's never stated it, but it seems pretty clear that Yelich doesn't want to play first base. And if he doesn't, I don't know how much of an option it is. And he might be a terrible first baseman. Who knows at this point?

Arnold stated in December that Yelich would remain in the outfield, and I doubt that he was talking without getting CY's input on the matter. I don't think there has been any news about him working out at 1B, so my guess is that Yelich is using his status as a veteran to quash that talk. 

This is a long conversation the organization and Yelich should be having this offseason.

[Underachiever]

9 minutes ago, shanedog19 said:

This is a long conversation the organization and Yelich should be having this offseason.

Perhaps, but the leverage is all on one side of the table in this conversation.

[tmwiese55]

While sure they should talk about it they haven't, if Black is as good a hitter as some here think then the lefty side of 1B is covered too.  If Black is as bad at D as mentioned here then Yeli is better at LF.  Of course if Black can't hack it then its wide open like 1B seemingly has been for 10 years.   Side note, he's down to 4 years left on contract after this one