Developed - Devin Williams to the Yankees for Nestor Cortes and Caleb Durbin

[Frisbee Slider]

1 hour ago, tmwiese55 said:

And that there is next to no other examples at this type of size.

Dustin Pedroia was 5’7

Luisangel Acuña is 5’8

Short is the new market inefficiency 🤷‍♂️

[brewers888]

5 minutes ago, homer said:

"That guy was a bum! Why didn't we get more in return for a bum?"

Not a bum but a playoff choker which are two totally different things. We can all agree that Greg Maddux was a great regular season pitcher but in the playoffs Braves fans wanted Smoltz on the mound and not Maddux or Glavine despite them all being hall of fame pitchers.

We all love analytics but stats don't take into account the clutch factor which some have and some don't. Personally I never had any confidence in Devin in October and wished Murphy had kept Freddy in to pitch the ninth. To me Devin is the yankees postseason problem now and I expect him to fail next October as he did with us.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

2 hours ago, homer said:

no GM is going to look at 2 and 1/3 innings of playoff performances

I bet there is at least one that does. It wasn't that long ago I remember reading a scout in SI saying his front office is not even interested at looking at a pitcher under 6'3. I know this is an age-old debate around here that I don't care to get into, but I do believe that "clutch" is a thing. Not in the sense that some players "get better," but I do believe that certain players shrink. I don't think 2 1/3 innings is enough to make that judgment, but on the limited sample we do have + Devin's other issues, I don't think he's a mentally strong guy. I am glad he's gone, and I trust the team will get some juice out of the return.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

1 hour ago, markedman5 said:

Heyman thinks it was “a bit of an overpay by the Yanks “

 

When you're the Yankees it doesn't matter. You just fill need at whatever price.

[CheeseheadInQC]

2 minutes ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

I bet there is at least one that does. It wasn't that long ago I remember reading a scout in SI saying his front office is not even interested at looking at a pitcher under 6'3. I know this is an age-old debate around here that I don't care to get into, but I do believe that "clutch" is a thing. Not in the sense that some players "get better," but I do believe that certain players shrink. I don't think 2 1/3 innings is enough to make that judgment, but on the limited sample we do have + Devin's other issues, I don't think he's a mentally strong guy. I am glad he's gone, and I trust the team will get some juice out of the return.

So you are saying clutch isn’t a thing but anti-clutch is (not criticizing, tend to agree).

[liveforoctober]

2 hours ago, markedman5 said:

Heyman thinks it was “a bit of an overpay by the Yanks “

 

Yeah but he is just a company yes man like the rest of us.

[Sixtolezcano]

4 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Hope is that his pull rate can counteract his lack of pop. 

But, yeah, those EV #s are almost identical to Sal Frelick's. 

GREAT!!!

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think the Brewers will get a lot of out of both these guys. It's not an exciting trade by any means but for a non-daily player that I never really cared for, it's fine. Durbin is a bit of lottery ticket, maybe that's generous as we probably know about what his ceiling is, but I think they'll get some good value out of Cortes. He should benefit from leaving the ALE too.

[markedman5]

More company men

 

[liveforoctober]

If Cortes pitches to his career norms and the Brewers underperform as a team, he will bring back a favorable haul at the deadline.

If he pitches to his career norms+ and the Brewers hold him for the season, he is a QO candidate and could bring back a 1st Rd+ 2026 pick. 

Also, imagine if the Brewers can find a little more of that pitcher's pixie dust for him that they always seem to have?

[markedman5]

 

[MadScientist]

As long as Cortes is healthy and that flexor strain doesn't come back and turn into TJ surgery by May, this is a good trade for the Brewers.  I am concerned that it will, as these injuries can look better after rest and then come back with a vengeance when pitching resumes.

[liveforoctober]

12 minutes ago, MadScientist said:

As long as Cortes is healthy and that flexor strain doesn't come back and turn into TJ surgery by May, this is a good trade for the Brewers.  I am concerned that it will, as these injuries can look better after rest and then come back with a vengeance when pitching resumes.

Do we know of any recent examples where a guy had a similar injury and shortly after returning had to have major surgery?

[Oxy]

I would have preferred to get younger prospects with higher upside.

Cortes and Durbin are fine.  Just like Civale, Wade Miley, Colin Rea, Joe Ross, Oliver Dunn, Andruw Monasterio, and Owen Miller are fine.

Devin Williams is in the conversation for the best reliever in baseball.  I would have preferred to keep him and get a comp pick or get some more younger guys with higher upside a la Freddy Peralta from 8 years ago or so.

It seems like Cortes and Durbin are dime-a-dozen type guys that are available for near nothing every March 25th....

Also, rostering Turang, Frelick, Perkins and Durbin might be tough....that's a lot of ABs with no HRs.

All that said, I trust this front office so am in actuality much more wait-and-see but my initial response is a big "meh".

[CheeseheadInQC]

Maybe it is because they got traded on the same day, but does anyone else see a bit of Isaac Paredes in Durbin’s profile. Extreme pull, lots of contact and walks, results better than EV would indicate. I don’t think he will ever hit 30 homers like Paredes, but he might hit a few more than you would expect.

[umphrey]

13 minutes ago, Oxy said:

I would have preferred to get younger prospects with higher upside.

Cortes and Durbin are fine.  Just like Civale, Wade Miley, Colin Rea, Joe Ross, Oliver Dunn, Andruw Monasterio, and Owen Miller are fine.

Devin Williams is in the conversation for the best reliever in baseball.  I would have preferred to keep him and get a comp pick or get some more younger guys with higher upside a la Freddy Peralta from 8 years ago or so.

It seems like Cortes and Durbin are dime-a-dozen type guys that are available for near nothing every March 25th....

Also, rostering Turang, Frelick, Perkins and Durbin might be tough....that's a lot of ABs with no HRs.

All that said, I trust this front office so am in actuality much more wait-and-see but my initial response is a big "meh".

Cortes isn’t a dime a dozen. He is probably on track to get the Frankie Montas contract or something like that. 

[Brewcrew82]

11 minutes ago, Oxy said:

I would have preferred to get younger prospects with higher upside.

Cortes and Durbin are fine.  Just like Civale, Wade Miley, Colin Rea, Joe Ross, Oliver Dunn, Andruw Monasterio, and Owen Miller are fine.

Devin Williams is in the conversation for the best reliever in baseball.  I would have preferred to keep him and get a comp pick or get some more younger guys with higher upside a la Freddy Peralta from 8 years ago or so.

It seems like Cortes and Durbin are dime-a-dozen type guys that are available for near nothing every March 25th....

Also, rostering Turang, Frelick, Perkins and Durbin might be tough....that's a lot of ABs with no HRs.

All that said, I trust this front office so am in actuality much more wait-and-see but my initial response is a big "meh".

I understand the sentiment, but I would just push back on Nestor Cortes being a "dime a dozen guy that's available for near nothing every March". In the current starting pitching market, you have guys like Frankie Montas going for $17 million...Meanwhile, Fried who produced at a similar rate to Cortes last season got over $200 million. 

We'll only have him for one year, sure, but a guy at the salary and production of Cortes is like gold at $8 million in this market. 

[Brewcrew82]

Just now, umphrey said:

Cortes isn’t a dime a dozen. He is probably on track to get the Frankie Montas contract or something like that. 

He puts up another 3 WAR season for us in addition to the ones in 22 and last year, and he'll probably be looking at Severino's contract at least. 

[Oxy]

1 minute ago, umphrey said:

Cortes isn’t a dime a dozen. He is probably on track to get the Frankie Montas contract or something like that. 

Cortes' results haven't been dime-a-dozen, at least when factoring in '21 and '22.

Cortes' expected results and arm/stuff/age/price are a dime-a-dozen and are much closer to his '23 results than his '21 and '22 results.  And his arm/stuff is WAY more Joe Ross than Frankie Montas.

[liveforoctober]

21 minutes ago, Oxy said:

I would have preferred to get younger prospects with higher upside.

Cortes and Durbin are fine.  Just like Civale, Wade Miley, Colin Rea, Joe Ross, Oliver Dunn, Andruw Monasterio, and Owen Miller are fine.

Devin Williams is in the conversation for the best reliever in baseball.  I would have preferred to keep him and get a comp pick or get some more younger guys with higher upside a la Freddy Peralta from 8 years ago or so.

It seems like Cortes and Durbin are dime-a-dozen type guys that are available for near nothing every March 25th....

Also, rostering Turang, Frelick, Perkins and Durbin might be tough....that's a lot of ABs with no HRs.

All that said, I trust this front office so am in actuality much more wait-and-see but my initial response is a big "meh".

Come on man. Putting Cortes and Owen Miller in the same sentence as dime a dozen guys just isn't it. Cortes had comparable numbers last year to Max Fried.

[liveforoctober]

Cortes is the same age as Williams btw. Younger, actually... By a few months.

[Oxy]

3 minutes ago, liveforoctober said:

Cortes is the same age as Williams btw. Younger, actually... By a few months.

And honestly, the Brewers maybe even better at finding "dime-a-dozen" scrap-heap relievers in March and turning them into elite shut down relievers in July and August than they are at finding starters...so the Devin for Cortes swap makes sense in that light....except for likely losing the comp pick.

[Sixtolezcano]

Seems like the Cubs trade for Tucker far exceeds the Brewers trade today. Watch out.

[wallus]

Another thing on Durbin is he likely greatly benefited from ABS strike zone system. We all saw how often Sal gets screwed from human umps.

[jay87shot]

With the pitching market like this, could Cortes, Civale, and Woody all get QO if they pitch really well. Are we allowed to give multiple QO's and get picks for each? It wouldn't surprise me to see each of these guys put up 150+ innings with low 3 era's. I would say that would be better than guys like Kikuchi, Severino. Pivetta (if Pivetta gets over 50 million).