When does Arnold start to receive some criticism

[CheeseheadInQC]

58 minutes ago, bigred said:

Do you consider a Priester type trade as "going for it"? Farm systems aren't there just as a pipeline to the major league squad. They're also meant as capital for TRADES! Answer this. If having 1 of the best records in MLB, sweeping the season series of the Dodgers, making it look like we could actually be good enough for a deep playoff run, isn't enough to use some prospects to try and win a title, what will it take TO be a good enough reason? 

It involved giving up significant prospect capital to fill an immediate need, so yes. I guess you could argue that the years of control gave a second dimension to the deal, but I also don’t agree that doing the type of deal that happens once or twice per deadline is the only way a team can qualify as going for it, because by that definition most contending teams don’t go for it every year.

[Sixtolezcano]

4 hours ago, bigred said:

A slim majority. He's the talking piece for the ownership group. He needs to grow a pair, and make them understand that now is the time to actually go for it, instead of gaslighting us some more, by just claiming that they are. If not, then as far as I'm concerned, they should sell the team. 

What MLB  fans fail to realize is that the owners view of success is making the largest profit possible. It isn’t winning a World Series or making the playoffs (although winning will lead to a larger profit). It all comes to the bottom line, unless they are so filthy rich several extra million of dollars doesn’t matter to these billionaires.

[Brewcrew82]

On 7/25/2025 at 8:57 AM, bigred said:

Best record in baseball, just to probably get bounced in their first playoff series, again, just because MA refuses to pry open the wallet a bit, and Arnold refuses to use our deep farm system to make some meaningful moves. What's the point of having a deep system, if they won't use it? Not all of our prospects will make it to Milwaukee. In fact, most won't. 

What’s the point of you being a Brewers fan if you’re already certain they’re bowing out in the first round despite them currently holding the best record in the league? Like what is the actual point?

[Samurai Bucky]

9 hours ago, Sixtolezcano said:

What MLB  fans fail to realize is that the owners view of success is making the largest profit possible. It isn’t winning a World Series or making the playoffs (although winning will lead to a larger profit). It all comes to the bottom line, unless they are so filthy rich several extra million of dollars doesn’t matter to these billionaires.

I'm sure there are some, but I have a feeling there are some that want to win.  Just because the Brewers don't have a huge salary doesn't mean they don't care.

We hear, "Get [Player X]!  Wait.. but don't 'overpay!'"  The Brewers can afford a rental and the reason they don't go after [Player X] is because they are cheap asses!  Perhaps payment is a little bit different than Dollars -- teams want players, too.

I wish it were as easy as piling on the owners saying they are only worried about profit.  It is not that easy.

[bigred]

11 hours ago, MVP2110 said:

I used to very much have the Championship or bust mentality with my sports teams. Then I realized I just wasn't able to enjoy watching my teams because I was constantly wondering how they would fare in the playoffs. When the Bucks won the 2021 Championship I realized the journey was half the enjoyment of it. So now I enjoy games as I watch them and hope for the best. I've been around long enough to see when my teams are run poorly and when they are run by smart people and this Brewers team is run by very smart people. I said as much when we made the Priester trade, did I think it was a good deal? No, but I had faith that Arnold & co. saw something in Priester to give up as much for him as they did and turns out that was the right way to look at it

Fans that supposedly don't care if they win a championship, aren't true fans. As far as I'm concerned. They're run by smart people? Really? Well, maybe, only in the regular season at least. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

Oh, but wouldn't the world be an easier place to live in if baseball players were conveniently shoehorned into various categories. There's the "That's IT? Wow, Attanasio is a real cheapass" group. In the next department over, we have the "They should've done more, we need at least TWO bats!!!!" guys. A couple floors up, with the ESPN & MLB Network cameras rolling, we can peruse the "GOING FOR IT!!!!!" players, followed by a trip to the top floor & the "MOVE THE NEEDLE!!!" merchandise.

Truth be known they've been one of, if not the best run organization you can find anywhere. And those who don't think we spend prospect capital haven't been paying attention. But one thing this team will never do, even with a deep system, is overpay in a trade. It would be an easy mistake to make when you're competing at the trade deadline with a lot of folks who will gladly empty out the upper levels of their prospect list because they can just write checks to fill holes every off-season.

What I'd love to see, is some of these big-market FO's have to make decisions while living in the world the Brewers live in.

[bigred]

11 hours ago, CheeseheadInQC said:

It involved giving up significant prospect capital to fill an immediate need, so yes. I guess you could argue that the years of control gave a second dimension to the deal, but I also don’t agree that doing the type of deal that happens once or twice per deadline is the only way a team can qualify as going for it, because by that definition most contending teams don’t go for it every year.

Most teams that are actual contenders have the $ to buy their stacked roster, so they already went for it. They don't need to make big trades to give themselves an edge. 

[bigred]

10 hours ago, Sixtolezcano said:

What MLB  fans fail to realize is that the owners view of success is making the largest profit possible. It isn’t winning a World Series or making the playoffs (although winning will lead to a larger profit). It all comes to the bottom line, unless they are so filthy rich several extra million of dollars doesn’t matter to these billionaires.

I've said many times that I do realize that. Then, like I've also said many times, Attanasio needs to stop gaslighting our fan base by claiming/acting like they are. I'll reiterate what I commented earlier. Then as far as I'm concerned, they should sell the team then. In fact, our fanbase should demand it. If the ownership group doesn't care if they win a championship, then they're not true owners. 

[bigred]

7 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

What’s the point of you being a Brewers fan if you’re already certain they’re bowing out in the first round despite them currently holding the best record in the league? Like what is the actual point?

I'm already certain, because of a long history of them being ousted in their first playoff game/series. Lol it's called an trend. 

[bigred]

11 hours ago, SF70 said:

Anyone following this team has to now know we are THE best organization in baseball. Period. 

And as such, this FO doesn’t deserve criticism from its fans, not when each and every year the organization gets stronger.

 

Just shush, and let them do their thing. They obviously know what to do or we wouldn’t be the best organization in baseball, now would we.

Mr Big Red — stop complaining about the past and just sit back, relax, and this team’s FO continue to school MLB, and appreciate what we have and where we’re going.

School MLB? Lmao! Well, only in the regular season. Wow! There are a lot of fans here that have poor, passive attitudes. 

[BrewerFan]

On 7/25/2025 at 8:50 AM, bigred said:

That's big? Yeah, uh-huh, ok. 

Are you saying it's NOT?

Yophery Rodriguez, the 33rd pick and a pretty good pitching prospect for Priester. 

 

If THAT isn't big, nothing is going to satisfy you...

What do you think he'd cost now in a trade? 6 years of team control over a guy with an ERA in the low 3s who is going deep into games? 

But that's... not a big trade?

 

[BrewerFan]

15 hours ago, bigred said:

A slim majority. He's the talking piece for the ownership group. He needs to grow a pair, and make them understand that now is the time to actually go for it, instead of gaslighting us some more, by just claiming that they are. If not, then as far as I'm concerned, they should sell the team. 

You're wrong. His ownership stake is in the mid to upper 30s. 37% was last I heard.

And he also said they can afford to add anyone at the deadline... just in terms of payroll. 

This, "the hell with it, what's the point, I'm sick of losing in the first round," ideology is...so deeply, deeply flawed.

And you're using the sweep of the Dodgers as some proof that this is the year they NEED to add players. 

 

So then...what do you trade? Just whatever it takes? Does that guarantee you anything? We were nearly 10 games better than the Braves when we lost to them. Beating the Nats when they came back to beat us with Hader on the mound(also lost to the Braves with Hader on the mound). 

 

Here's the reality. These "go for it," trades you're talking about, it's a marginal improvement on their chances for this year, but if you give up a guy like Pratt of Quero, it's going to cost you for nearly 7 years. 6 years and 4 months of service time. 

So you want to trade a top 100 prospect for a 2 month rental of a guy who has hit 27 of his HRs in AZ and very few on the road?

What trade would be good enough that you wouldn't blame Attanasio(who again, has already said they can afford financially to add ANY player this year)?

 

It's going to be a VERY high standard as you've completely dismissed Priester as a big move. 

[BrewerFan]

16 hours ago, Brian said:

According to Forbes Attanasio owns 45% of the Brewers. 

According to the MJS, it's 35%-38%.

 

I believe he originally purchased 45% and then as Rodgers or Giannis have come in, he's sold small % of his share, but still remains the principal owner. 

[SF70]

4 hours ago, bigred said:

School MLB? Lmao! Well, only in the regular season. Wow! There are a lot of fans here that have poor, passive attitudes. 

Not at all, some of us can look past the trees and see the big, beautiful forest. 

Matt Arnold earned executive of the year last season on behalf of the MKE Brewers for the 2024 season. He and the team are trending to earn it again for the second year in a row, which would be an unprecedented feat. You have no retort for this that will make any logical sense because there isn’t any. This alone makes the MKE Brewers THE best organization in baseball.

Mark Attanasio has done the most important thing he can do as the owner of baseball’s SMALLEST-market team — hire the right people to run it, listen to what they want you to do (massive investments in infrastructure), and stay out of the way.

The best FO in the game resides in MKE and as such doesn’t deserve criticism from its fans. They deserve patience from their fans for having a grand plan and a process for that plan. It’s taken a decade for most fans to see that this plan is coming to fruition slowly but surely.

We now have as good or better infrastructure as any in the game. We have as good of a farm system as there is in this game. We have more solid or better, 5-6 years controlled BL starting pitching as any team in baseball. We also have a 3-6 years controlled, playoff-worthy positional core. We have everything a team needs to have as good of a 5+ year future as any team in baseball.

Patience is all that is needed. Patience to let our elite FO do what they think is needed to win a WS in the near future.

[liveforoctober]

5 hours ago, bigred said:

School MLB? Lmao! Well, only in the regular season. Wow! There are a lot of fans here that have poor, passive attitudes. 

You calling out others for having bad attitudes is the "pot calling kettle" final act this thread needed. This thread has gone off 18 rails. Lock it up and put it on the hall of fame.

[Brian]

7 hours ago, bigred said:

There are a lot of fans here that have poor, passive attitudes. 

What do you suggest we do? Go on strike because you think we have terrible watching conditions. Cards look to be sellers soon also barring an immediate big win streak. 

[CheeseheadInQC]

7 hours ago, bigred said:

Most teams that are actual contenders have the $ to buy their stacked roster, so they already went for it. They don't need to make big trades to give themselves an edge. 

1. The Brewers aren’t the only small market team in contention.

2. That might work in the offseason, but now at the deadline it’s apparent even most of the big market teams have significant flaws.

[JohnBriggs12]

Anyone watching the first two games in front of full houses at home against a non-playoff Marlins team has to be worried.  It's been a playoff atmosphere and the team has fallen flat.  Guys like Anderson and Mears appear not ready for the pressure of the postseason, and there's not enough power to turn momentum in a game on one swing.  They need bullpen help and there's a prime slugger just sitting there on the market.  There was a time when Brewers made splashes.  Sabathia and Grienke anyone?  Now is the time.

[bigred]

7 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

You're wrong. His ownership stake is in the mid to upper 30s. 37% was last I heard.

And he also said they can afford to add anyone at the deadline... just in terms of payroll. 

This, "the hell with it, what's the point, I'm sick of losing in the first round," ideology is...so deeply, deeply flawed.

And you're using the sweep of the Dodgers as some proof that this is the year they NEED to add players. 

 

So then...what do you trade? Just whatever it takes? Does that guarantee you anything? We were nearly 10 games better than the Braves when we lost to them. Beating the Nats when they came back to beat us with Hader on the mound(also lost to the Braves with Hader on the mound). 

 

Here's the reality. These "go for it," trades you're talking about, it's a marginal improvement on their chances for this year, but if you give up a guy like Pratt of Quero, it's going to cost you for nearly 7 years. 6 years and 4 months of service time. 

So you want to trade a top 100 prospect for a 2 month rental of a guy who has hit 27 of his HRs in AZ and very few on the road?

What trade would be good enough that you wouldn't blame Attanasio(who again, has already said they can afford financially to add ANY player this year)?

 

It's going to be a VERY high standard as you've completely dismissed Priester as a big move. 

It's deeply flawed? I suppose, you have your opinions, too. So you like being g let down after getting promptly ousted from the playoffs pretty much every time? Ok, super, great. To each their own 

[bigred]

3 hours ago, SF70 said:

Not at all, some of us can look past the trees and see the big, beautiful forest. 

Matt Arnold earned executive of the year last season on behalf of the MKE Brewers for the 2024 season. He and the team are trending to earn it again for the second year in a row, which would be an unprecedented feat. You have no retort for this that will make any logical sense because there isn’t any. This alone makes the MKE Brewers THE best organization in baseball.

Mark Attanasio has done the most important thing he can do as the owner of baseball’s SMALLEST-market team — hire the right people to run it, listen to what they want you to do (massive investments in infrastructure), and stay out of the way.

The best FO in the game resides in MKE and as such doesn’t deserve criticism from its fans. They deserve patience from their fans for having a grand plan and a process for that plan. It’s taken a decade for most fans to see that this plan is coming to fruition slowly but surely.

We now have as good or better infrastructure as any in the game. We have as good of a farm system as there is in this game. We have more solid or better, 5-6 years controlled BL starting pitching as any team in baseball. We also have a 3-6 years controlled, playoff-worthy positional core. We have everything a team needs to have as good of a 5+ year future as any team in baseball.

Patience is all that is needed. Patience to let our elite FO do what they think is needed to win a WS in the near future.

Big beautiful forest? Yeah, uh-huh. So you admit that you choose to fool yourself? By thinking it's something that it's not? Ok, that's your choice. I choose to not settle for mediocrity. Nobody cares/remembers who finishes second, just like nobody cares/remembers who had the best regular season records. It's about winning championships, period. You seriously don't think every Brewer player doesn't care if they win a championship? If they don’t, then they should be traded/waived immediately. 

[bigred]

1 hour ago, Brian said:

What do you suggest we do? Go on strike because you think we have terrible watching conditions. Cards look to be sellers soon also barring an immediate big win streak. 

No. But the attitudes here, of mediocrity being acceptable, and that championships don't matter, is beyond weird. 

[bigred]

1 hour ago, CheeseheadInQC said:

1. The Brewers aren’t the only small market team in contention.

2. That might work in the offseason, but now at the deadline it’s apparent even most of the big market teams have significant flaws.

Yes, and those teams will almost certainly make a few trades to actually try and fix those flaws, instead of sitting on their hands and passively doing nothing, and hoping and praying for the best. 

[Thurston Fluff]

1 hour ago, JohnBriggs12 said:

Anyone watching the first two games in front of full houses at home against a non-playoff Marlins team has to be worried.  It's been a playoff atmosphere and the team has fallen flat.  Guys like Anderson and Mears appear not ready for the pressure of the postseason, and there's not enough power to turn momentum in a game on one swing.  They need bullpen help and there's a prime slugger just sitting there on the market.  There was a time when Brewers made splashes.  Sabathia and Grienke anyone?  Now is the time.

Those were the days. When those two teams won the World Series it was well worth not getting back to the playoffs for three to five years after it. Seeing KC win with the players we traded didn't hurt at all because we won a World Series due to those trades.

[yfinn6]

58 minutes ago, bigred said:

No. But the attitudes here, of mediocrity being acceptable, and that championships don't matter, is beyond weird. 

Why am I not surprised that you're the type of person to make up a scenario to get mad about, then get mad about that scenario? On brand. 

No one is "accepting" mediocrity. One team can win the WS every year -- one. You've set yourself up nicely to always say we're not trying to win when the Brewers - to the surprise of literally no one - doesn't win the World Series. 

Championships absolutely matter. We live in the real world and understand the Brewers have disadvantages. They're still in contention every year and have prospects to send. Last I checked, the deadline hasn't arrived and a deal can still be made. Rather than endlessly complain and and attempt to gaslight us, you could come up with some trade scenarios? 

[82brewcrew82]

I like how this argument has gone into two extreme corners with nothing in between. Acquiring a guy like Sabathia was not a marginal improvement.  Beyond the on-field performance, that trade energized both the team and the fan base.  So both are right in a way.  Yes, a "big" move may not pay off but it can have more than a marginal affect on the team.

You do not have to trade the cream of the crop prospects either to improve the team.  The talent level of the system is deep enough that there are going to be enticing prospects that are not Made or Pratt.  Never mind that none of use really knows how the organization really views any given prospect.  They may not be as high on Pratt as the industry is.  Its not a question of trading the best prospects or doing nothing.

I do think the FO has earned a considerable amount of leeway in terms of the decisions they make but they are not mistake free.  I will never agree with any notion that suggest any entity should go without question.  I think, if being honest, the majority of the board scratched their collective heads at the Priester trade but that has, without a doubt, been a massive (dare say more than marginal) acquisition without which, the team would not be here.  Likewise, the Hoskins signing was near universally lauded and I don't think that has lived up to the expectations.  A "big" move is not equal al to making a move for a name.  Likewise, keeping all our prospects or making small moves doesn't guarantee anything either as we've learned through the years.

I also think there is room to expect more from the organization as a whole.  The whole bites at the apple versus going or it arguments are both valid and I suspect you can find examples of both philosophies working out at times.   Personally, I want a World Series.  Full stop.  But I also see what the org is doing and I'm not sure right now is the time.  I think they are going to be better positioned to make that move in the next several years.  I think both sides have an argument though and calling anyone out anyone for being on either side is just lazy.  We can agree to disagree.