Hader VERY BAD for Padres

[markedman5]

45 minutes ago, Robocaller said:

Following Hader has kinda been like watching a train wreck.  Feel sorry for him. Wonder if the Brewers knew they were trading damaged goods. Of course, SD did that as well, but Rogers hasn't been that bad.

He’s not damaged goods……he’s healthy…….his velocity is fine…….he just has mechanical issues of some type or another…….loss of command and who knows maybe tipping pitches.

My guess is he eventually figures it out……….but as of now…..Rogers is certainly out pitching him…….odds that I put at about 40% after the trade was made.

 

 

[Ulice Payne]

3 minutes ago, jjgott said:

Was just going to say he hasn't been the same pitcher since that game.  I understand the financial benefits to being a capital C closer, but man I wonder how it would've gone if he would've stayed our "break in case of emergency" swing man out of the pen.

It was pouring buckets that night.  Satellite TV went out during that inning & I couldn't even get the game in standard def.  Desperately getting to the radio just in time to hear the disappointment in Bob Ueckers voice. 

[edfunderburk]

I wonder what percentage of fans are like me in that once a player is traded away or chooses to sign & play elsewhere … I’m no longer a fan … I’m not hoping he fails, but I don’t mind if he does

I’m a Brewers fan … I pull for whatever players are currently on our team & for the rare “lifers” who play their entire careers with Milwaukee

The most painful departure for me was Molitor in 1992 … that stung for a few years … I was glad when he retired … very similar to how I felt with Favre playing for the Jets & Vikings - hard to watch … especially if he succeeded against my Packers (Favre) or Brewers (Molitor)

As for Hader … what a disaster … so glad he’s not still a Brewer … he’s been horrific in San Diego & was bad for the last several outings before he was traded - good timing on that trade for sure

I hope Hader & all the Padres play & pitch poorly through the end of the season … otherwise, the Brewers are unlikely to make the playoffs as I don’t see them catching the Cards or the Phils 

Unlike many others on this forum, I’m not the least bit surprised at Hader’s continued meltdown - I lost all confidence in him in his outing against San Francisco when he gave up 3 HRs & six runs to blow a save while only recording only one out … I’ve never witnessed a worse outing - although today appears to be a close second

[edfunderburk]

2 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

If the Padres end up non-tendering him in the offseason, wonder if he would consider resigning with us to get right in our pitching lab...What a scenario that would be. 

It would be epic if he was non-tendered by SDP … re-signed with Milwaukee … had an incredible start to the season … & was traded at the deadline in 2023 - for a major league bat!

[folly412]

24 minutes ago, edfunderburk said:

It would be epic if he was non-tendered by SDP … re-signed with Milwaukee … had an incredible start to the season … & was traded at the deadline in 2023 - for a major league bat!

"And then...then we sign him AGAIN the next year!" -Doug Melvin

[HarveysWBs]

48 minutes ago, edfunderburk said:

I wonder what percentage of fans are like me in that once a player is traded away or chooses to sign & play elsewhere … I’m no longer a fan … I’m not hoping he fails, but I don’t mind if he does

I’m a Brewers fan … I pull for whatever players are currently on our team & for the rare “lifers” who play their entire careers with Milwaukee

The most painful departure for me was Molitor in 1992 … that stung for a few years … I was glad when he retired … very similar to how I felt with Favre playing for the Jets & Vikings - hard to watch … especially if he succeeded against my Packers (Favre) or Brewers (Molitor)

As for Hader … what a disaster … so glad he’s not still a Brewer … he’s been horrific in San Diego & was bad for the last several outings before he was traded - good timing on that trade for sure

I hope Hader & all the Padres play & pitch poorly through the end of the season … otherwise, the Brewers are unlikely to make the playoffs as I don’t see them catching the Cards or the Phils 

Unlike many others on this forum, I’m not the least bit surprised at Hader’s continued meltdown - I lost all confidence in him in his outing against San Francisco when he gave up 3 HRs & six runs to blow a save while only recording only one out … I’ve never witnessed a worse outing - although today appears to be a close second

I’ve found it hard to strike the correct balance with this situation, too.  There is a part of me that hates to see him struggle, and today was just horrific.  But there’s another part that is…less disappointed by it, for a bunch of different reasons.  His recent performances suggest Stearns had an idea what the heck he was doing (imagine that) and that the deadline deal made more sense to those in the know than it did to those in the bleachers (or even possibly the locker room).  His struggles also directly assist the Brewers in their desperate effort to capture the last wild card spot.

And finally—and I must admit, I feel most guilty about this—this situation has caused a degree of satisfaction.  I find it pleasing to see a team with massive resources and a go-for-it binge squander these on a team that stands a decent chance of missing even an expanded playoff field. And specifically with Hader, when he made his introductory press conference in San Diego, he went out of his way to mention how nice it was to be in an organization that “tried to win the World Series and not just make the playoffs all the time.”

I know we’ve talked a lot around here about “bites at the apple” vs “go for it,” but I’m not inclined to hear that criticism from Hader.  The org believed in him, developed him, and stood by him through his more than a little uncomfortable tweet scandal. And, of course, there is a chance a couple of those playoff appearances he maligns may have gone just a little deeper if he would have performed a bit better, too.  A little self-reflection would go a long way.

I recognize this is petty, and I should get over it.  And I suspect I will…when the Brewers send the Padres to an early offseason.

[Ulice Payne]

1 hour ago, edfunderburk said:

I’m a Brewers fan … I pull for whatever players are currently on our team & for the rare “lifers” who play their entire careers with Milwaukee

I think the age of the lifer is over.  Other than Yelich, I don't expect any of these current players to play a long career exclusive to Milwaukee.

Overall, that'll be good for a team like the Brewers, although we will see some talented players leave

[SomewhereInTime]

Credit to the front office to be able to get anything for him.

[tonyei31]

4 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

If the Padres end up non-tendering him in the offseason, wonder if he would consider resigning with us to get right in our pitching lab...What a scenario that would be. 

I have had these same thoughts.  Still some season left but if Hader doesn't see some form of improvement down the stretch I definitely see SD non-tendering him, especially with potential luxury tax issues continuing to loom come next year.  I would have to imagine the Brewers would try to reunite with him under this scenario.  What a major fall it would be.  3 months ago it was beyond unfathomable that Hader could be non-tendered.  Now it's gotta be a 50/50 proposition (would be higher if not for another month+of season left)

[Axman59]

We have no way of knowing if Hader would have pitched this poorly he had stayed in Milwaukee. It's very possible the trade messed with his head. Relief pitching relies a lot on the mental aspect, rather than just physical.

[jw5511986]

2 hours ago, edfunderburk said:

I wonder what percentage of fans are like me in that once a player is traded away or chooses to sign & play elsewhere … I’m no longer a fan … I’m not hoping he fails, but I don’t mind if he does

I’m a Brewers fan … I pull for whatever players are currently on our team & for the rare “lifers” who play their entire careers with Milwaukee

The most painful departure for me was Molitor in 1992 … that stung for a few years … I was glad when he retired … very similar to how I felt with Favre playing for the Jets & Vikings - hard to watch … especially if he succeeded against my Packers (Favre) or Brewers (Molitor)

As for Hader … what a disaster … so glad he’s not still a Brewer … he’s been horrific in San Diego & was bad for the last several outings before he was traded - good timing on that trade for sure

I hope Hader & all the Padres play & pitch poorly through the end of the season … otherwise, the Brewers are unlikely to make the playoffs as I don’t see them catching the Cards or the Phils 

Unlike many others on this forum, I’m not the least bit surprised at Hader’s continued meltdown - I lost all confidence in him in his outing against San Francisco when he gave up 3 HRs & six runs to blow a save while only recording only one out … I’ve never witnessed a worse outing - although today appears to be a close second

I feel somewhat similarly. I would much rather they and he do better in the playoffs than say LA OR STL, but it hurts me none to see him struggle.

[Jopal78]

12 minutes ago, tonyei31 said:

I have had these same thoughts.  Still some season left but if Hader doesn't see some form of improvement down the stretch I definitely see SD non-tendering him, especially with potential luxury tax issues continuing to loom come next year.  I would have to imagine the Brewers would try to reunite with him under this scenario.  What a major fall it would be.  3 months ago it was beyond unfathomable that Hader could be non-tendered.  Now it's gotta be a 50/50 proposition (would be higher if not for another month+of season left)

If Trevor Rosenthal has gotten  over 14 million dollars to not pitch the last two years, even if San Diego did non-tender him (they’d trade him first), Hader is still going on to shoot the moon in arbitration regardless of one bad year.

[Brewcrew82]

20 minutes ago, Axman59 said:

We have no way of knowing if Hader would have pitched this poorly he had stayed in Milwaukee. It's very possible the trade messed with his head. Relief pitching relies a lot on the mental aspect, rather than just physical.

We kind of do have an idea considering his slide started WHILE pitching in Milwaukee. 

[Robocaller]

2 hours ago, Axman59 said:

We have no way of knowing if Hader would have pitched this poorly he had stayed in Milwaukee. It's very possible the trade messed with his head. Relief pitching relies a lot on the mental aspect, rather than just physical.

except that he was bad with us for some time. Granted, not this bad.

[Jim French Stepstool]

Josh certainly doesn't strike me as the type I'd wish anything bad on, but right now I'd rather see him fail than succeed chiefly because it would benefit Milwaukee in the playoff chase, partially due to some of the stuff he said upon arriving with SD, & partially because it counters the "what a terrible trade this was" crowd. Other than that, God bless 'im, & I hope everything is going aces with his wife & new baby.

Per to edfunderburk's thoughts, I agree. I don't ever recall hoping a former Brewer does well with their new team, didn't see the point.

[BrewCrew8675309]

On 8/19/2022 at 9:28 PM, patrickgpe said:

I don't think this is a shock. He hasn't been very good since his wife starting having pregnancy issues. I can't blame him for having his family on his mind rather than baseball.  These guys are just humans too dealing with the same issues we are just on a national stage.  I thought moving back to California may help him. I still can't see them non-tendering him in the offseason based on the investment they made in him. 

I said this on r/Brewers , the reddit sub-thread and was scolded for thinking such a thing. I still really think that there is something to this. He took extra days as well after the birth. I hope that his family is ok and I am glad he is figuring out in San Diego, not MKE.

[monty57]

10 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

If Trevor Rosenthal has gotten  over 14 million dollars to not pitch the last two years, even if San Diego did non-tender him (they’d trade him first), Hader is still going on to shoot the moon in arbitration regardless of one bad year.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe that when the season's over the Padres have to either offer him arby (and therefore be on the hook for a fairly sizeable chunk of money) or they have to decline arbitration and he becomes an unrestricted free agent, able to sign anywhere for any amount of money.

The Padres couldn't trade him until they offer arby, so that would certainly limit his trade value. Either way is a risk for the Padres, and I'm glad it's one the Brewers won't have to make. If he does become a FA, I would imagine he would get a one-year/"prove it" deal for less than he'd probably get if he goes through the arbitration process.

That, of course, is assuming the troubles continue. If he straightens things out and dominates through September, he'll make the decision easier.

[Hopper]

I wonder if this trade will sour the Padres on making future trades with Milwaukee?

If the Brewers knew something, and moved him for the best offer they could get because of what they knew, and the Padres think that the Brewers did know something and traded damaged goods, can this bite us in the future?

[Jopal78]

1 hour ago, monty57 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe that when the season's over the Padres have to either offer him arby (and therefore be on the hook for a fairly sizeable chunk of money) or they have to decline arbitration and he becomes an unrestricted free agent, able to sign anywhere for any amount of money.

The Padres couldn't trade him until they offer arby, so that would certainly limit his trade value. Either way is a risk for the Padres, and I'm glad it's one the Brewers won't have to make. If he does become a FA, I would imagine he would get a one-year/"prove it" deal for less than he'd probably get if he goes through the arbitration process.

That, of course, is assuming the troubles continue. If he straightens things out and dominates through September, he'll make the decision easier.

The new league year starts the day after the World Series, December 2nd is the last day to tender a player a contract. So they could trade him if they wanted to without committing any money to him. 

It's an interesting thought, two months ago he was the best relief pitcher in baseball, will 20 or so rough innings be enough to scare teams away? Certainly if the Padres crash and miss the postseason, he likely will be gone from San Diego one way or another. 

[monty57]

49 minutes ago, Hopper said:

I wonder if this trade will sour the Padres on making future trades with Milwaukee?

If the Brewers knew something, and moved him for the best offer they could get because of what they knew, and the Padres think that the Brewers did know something and traded damaged goods, can this bite us in the future?

Always a possibility. For example, teams used to be wary of trading for a Braves minor league pitcher in the 90's, because it seemed that they held onto the guys who turned into stars and traded away the ones who never made it. The Brewers haven't traded many star players prior to free agency, but the ones they have (Lucroy, Gomez and now Hader) have all fallen off a cliff as soon as they were traded away. That could give teams some hesitation in making that type of trade with the Crew.

However, I'd take the term "damaged goods" with a grain of salt. He doesn't appear to be injured, so they weren't hiding anything there. Everyone saw his final few outings with the Brewers, so if the Brewers noticed something mechanical, everyone could watch film on him and see the same thing. 

[Lathund]

37 minutes ago, monty57 said:

However, I'd take the term "damaged goods" with a grain of salt. He doesn't appear to be injured, so they weren't hiding anything there. Everyone saw his final few outings with the Brewers, so if the Brewers noticed something mechanical, everyone could watch film on him and see the same thing. 

Indeed, he doesn't seem injured. He had a 6-pitch walk last night where his slowest pitch was 97.8 mph. But if there was some kind of injury, it'd be rather ironic that AJ Preller was on the other side of it. 

[edfunderburk]

Josh Hader trade turning into disaster for Padres

https://larrybrownsports.com/baseball/josh-hader-struggles-padres-trade/603180

[NBBrewFan]

24 minutes ago, Lathund said:

Indeed, he doesn't seem injured. He had a 6-pitch walk last night where his slowest pitch was 97.8 mph. But if there was some kind of injury, it'd be rather ironic that AJ Preller was on the other side of it. 

Josh seems to have control issues. His bad Jul/Aug he is walking a batter per inning.  He isn't locating nearly as well and maybe even taking something off to make sure he can hit the strike zone and those balls are getting hit harder than in the past as his soft% is low compared to his previous periods of elite pitching. When he can start locating his pitches better I think he will begin to have better success, but as long as he's struggling to find the strike zones hitters are going to lay off pitches or make him pay when they know he has to throw a strike.

[JackNicholson1974]

The non-tendering is an interesting possibility.  Not because I would want or expect the Brewers to swoop in and reacquire him, but just to see such a bizarre situation play out.  Hader's ERA since the trade has been something like 24.00ish.  Let's just say he reverts for the rest of the year to simply just being bad as opposed to historically bad, and from here on out his ERA is 6.00.  What does he stand to make in arbitration next year?  $15million?  The question really is what will he make via arby vs. what would he get on the open market if he were non-tendered, given my hypothetical that he pitches at a 6.00 ERA clip the rest of the way. 

[Jopal78]

1 minute ago, JackNicholson1974 said:

The non-tendering is an interesting possibility.  Not because I would want or expect the Brewers to swoop in and reacquire him, but just to see such a bizarre situation play out.  Hader's ERA since the trade has been something like 24.00ish.  Let's just say he reverts for the rest of the year to simply just being bad as opposed to historically bad, and from here on out his ERA is 6.00.  What does he stand to make in arbitration next year?  $15million?  The question really is what will he make via arby vs. what would he get on the open market if he were non-tendered, given my hypothetical that he pitches at a 6.00 ERA clip the rest of the way. 

Kimbrel, Aroldis Chapman and Kenley Jansen are making $16 million this year. Ryan Pressly signed a 2yr/30 million dollar extension. $15-$16 million AAV seems the going rate for veteran closers, with Edwin Diaz coming along to reset the market. 

Does 20 bad innings result in Hader asking for less than $16 million next year, I doubt it.  Where the rubber meets the road is whether San Diego has the stomach to give him a raise. Given they have nowhere to pitch him right now, it will be hard to get himself "right" pitching as the mop-up reliever.