Brewers Acquire Jesse Winker and Abraham Toro from Mariners for Wong

[wallus]

Winker replaces Renfroe as the team dbag. 

I like this trade as we get a little younger and added some depth. Winker is a bounceback candidate.

[StearnsFTW]

11 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I feel like the Brewers have made a lot of lateral moves lately but nothing that immediately improves their 2023 product on American Family Field.

Which may turn out great in 2024 and beyond but I'm not seeing a lot of upside in the here and now, which is kinda needed given the clock is ticking on Burnes, Woodruff, and Adames.

I think the team is better and has $10MM more to work with than they did.

It's only December 2.

 

[sveumrules]

8 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I feel like the Brewers have made a lot of lateral moves lately but nothing that immediately improves their 2023 product on American Family Field.

Which may turn out great in 2024 and beyond but I'm not seeing a lot of upside in the here and now, which is kinda needed given the clock is ticking on Burnes, Woodruff, and Adames.

Better health from Peralta, Houser and Woodruff (2021: 13.6 rWAR | 2022: 5.2 rWAR) could net them a pretty healthy jump.

Not having Hader melt down for two months (-1.53 WPA from 6/7 to 7/29) or running old man Cain (-1.76 WPA) out there could yield a couple two tree win improvement just by doing nothing too.

[DoubleSwitch]

Just learned that Toro still has an option which makes me like this trade about 5 percent more.

[Brock Beauchamp]

2 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

Better health from Peralta, Houser and Woodruff (2021: 13.6 rWAR | 2022: 5.2 rWAR) could net them a pretty healthy jump.

Not having Hader melt down for two months (-1.53 WPA from 6/7 to 7/29) or running old man Cain (-1.76 WPA) out there could yield a couple two tree win improvement just by doing nothing too.

Oh, in no way am I saying they'll be worse. And the Winter Meetings haven't even happened yet, there's a lot of offseason left to go.

But to this point, we're seeing a lot of lateral movement with payroll in mind first and foremost. If they use that payroll to become substantially better later this month, great. 

[Lajitas]

8 minutes ago, DoubleSwitch said:

Again this is a rose tinted view. Garrett Mitchell is a lock defensively and Chourio and Frelick are more fringy according to every neutral prospect evaluation I've seen.

People also need to accept that Frelicks lack of power is a concern. Big league defenses are better and you can't slap singles and run out grounders like you can in the minors. Frelick propped up his average with that. I think he's a nice prospect, but he's no sure thing.

Prepare to be blasted by not anointing Frelick as the ROY next season.

[MVP2110]

15 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I feel like the Brewers have made a lot of lateral moves lately but nothing that immediately improves their 2023 product on American Family Field.

Which may turn out great in 2024 and beyond but I'm not seeing a lot of upside in the here and now, which is kinda needed given the clock is ticking on Burnes, Woodruff, and Adames.

I feel like the 2023 upside is if Winker can bounce back to his 2020 or 2021 version of play. He was outstanding those seasons and would have been our best bat last year. 

Toro feels like the new Jace. Could start the year in a platoon with Brosseau until Turang comes up

[PlayerHader]

9 minutes ago, StearnsFTW said:

I think the team is better and has $10MM more to work with than they did.

It's only December 2.

 

I hate to burst your bubble, but this deal is payroll neutral at best.

[Outlander]

I like this move a lot if Winker is healthy but the neck is a major concern. If healthy Winker will go off during a contract year, can live with his attitude for a year. Plays the correct side of the platoon, unlike McCutchen last year. 

[StearnsFTW]

7 minutes ago, PlayerHader said:

I hate to burst your bubble, but this deal is payroll neutral at best.

Thanks.

 

The payroll is down $10MM with the Renfroe deal.

 

[StearnsFTW]

Just went over to the Ms board.

 

Man, do they hate these 2 guys ?

[brewcrewdue80]

1 minute ago, PlayerHader said:

I hate to burst your bubble, but this deal is payroll neutral at best.

Technically they added to the payroll. Guess Toro must be a Super 2 with projected 1.4M.

I think that the 1.75M sent by Milw helped even out that Trade Values

[ClosetBrewerFan]

I see this as a huge boom or bust trade, but still low risk.  Winker was not good last year but was fantastic in Cincinnati.  If he could rebound, he could be the best cleanup hitter we have had since Prince (at least vs RHs).  If he repeats last year, its only for a 1 year deal and he was at least an average hitter last year (based on OPS+)  He's probably just a platoon bat and should only play DH.  I'd say he replaces Singleton on the roster (though he was unlikely to make it anyways).

I compare Toro to Cam Devanney.  Same age, both high OBP guys, but different path to the majors.  Cam was still in college when Toro first made it to the majors.  Toro had better numbers at a younger age than Cam.  I'd give the edge defensively to Cam but Toro with a better potential bat.  Still, Toro is a pretty good defensive 3b from what I can tell.

Not exactly the blockbuster deal we are all waiting for, but this could be really meaningful if Winker rebounds.  Winker in Am Fam field will be interesting to watch.  This is the type of low risk, high reward type move the Brewers need to make.  I think they still target a free agent 3b yet.  And this trade opens up a spot for that.  Someone like Longoria or Turner on a short term deal or maybe a hope for a rebound out of Anderson.  Toro would likely block Turang in that case as the utility IF; At least in the beginning of the season.

[treego14]

Our 2nd baseman is Wong-gone!

Hopefully, Turang will be a good new thang!

Last year, Winker was a stinker ... new digs can make Winker a Winner, though!

Toro ... who knows ... I am sure our new GM though was thorough!

Brew Crew in '22 had our offense only scoring a few ...

Milwaukee in '23 could be a scoring spree!

[Matt Breen]

I say sign Christian Vasquez and the position players are mostly set:

C - Vasquez (R)
1B - Tellez (L)
2B - Turang (L)
SS - Adamas (R)
3B - Urias (R)
LF - Yelich (L)
CF - Mitchell (L)
RF - Frelick (L)
DH - Winker (L) - Against right handers
OF - Taylor, Ruiz
INF - Toro, Brousseau
C - Add someone or keep Caratini 

Vasquez starts 120+ games. Average hitter but a good receiver who is reportedly really great at handling a staff.

Winker only plays against right handers. Other times we play Ruiz, Taylor and Brousseau (if its Taylor or Ruiz, you put them in LF and let Yelich DH).

 

[wallus]

9 minutes ago, reillymcshane said:

I say sign Christian Vasquez and the position players are mostly set:

C - Vasquez (R)
1B - Tellez (L)
2B - Turang (L)
SS - Adamas (R)
3B - Urias (R)
LF - Yelich (L)
CF - Mitchell (L)
RF - Frelick (L)
DH - Winker (L) - Against right handers
OF - Taylor, Ruiz
INF - Toro, Brousseau
C - Add someone or keep Caratini 

Vasquez starts 120+ games. Average hitter but a good receiver who is reportedly really great at handling a staff.

Winker only plays against right handers. Other times we play Ruiz, Taylor and Brousseau (if its Taylor or Ruiz, you put them in LF and let Yelich DH).

 

Yes, catcher is definitely a question mark yet. I wonder if they could turn one of their outfield prospects into a catcher? Not a huge Caratini fan but it would be nice to have someone younger to pair with him.

Also, you don't think Keston will be on the team?

[brewcrewdue80]

Man Toro has a Brutal OB pct at the ML level.  He can go sit in AAA all year while Turang plays 2b.  For as long as his MLB suck has gone on for, Toro has Below! 50 Games played in AAA.  I believe I was also interested in him as above poster showed in 2020. He should provide depth in case of injury. 

If Winker is majority DH, this means all Milw has left is a Catcher to sign or acquire and the roster is set...no?

[StearnsFTW]

14 minutes ago, reillymcshane said:

I say sign Christian Vasquez and the position players are mostly set:

C - Vasquez (R)
1B - Tellez (L)
2B - Turang (L)
SS - Adamas (R)
3B - Urias (R)
LF - Yelich (L)
CF - Mitchell (L)
RF - Frelick (L)
DH - Winker (L) - Against right handers
OF - Taylor, Ruiz
INF - Toro, Brousseau
C - Add someone or keep Caratini 

Vasquez starts 120+ games. Average hitter but a good receiver who is reportedly really great at handling a staff.

Winker only plays against right handers. Other times we play Ruiz, Taylor and Brousseau (if its Taylor or Ruiz, you put them in LF and let Yelich DH).

 

That looks way better than last year.

[StearnsFTW]

5 minutes ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

Man Toro has a Brutal OB pct at the ML level.  He can go sit in AAA all year while Turang plays 2b.  For as long as his MLB suck has gone on for, Toro has Below! 50 Games played in AAA.  I believe I was also interested in him as above poster showed in 2020. He should provide depth in case of injury. 

If Winker is majority DH, this means all Milw has left is a Catcher to sign or acquire and the roster is set...no?

Need some pen arms too.  

[Brock Beauchamp]

29 minutes ago, MVP2110 said:

I feel like the 2023 upside is if Winker can bounce back to his 2020 or 2021 version of play. He was outstanding those seasons and would have been our best bat last year. 

Toro feels like the new Jace. Could start the year in a platoon with Brosseau until Turang comes up

That's also my hope for Winker but man, it doesn't help that he's left-handed.

[markedman5]

It’s official 

 

[ClosetBrewerFan]

Wong also had $5M of last year's $7M salary deferred until 2023/2024.  Not sure who is on the hook for that but that could be some potential cost savings if Seattle is picking that up.  

I think the Brewers did well here considering most of us expected they were just going to non-tender Wong.  Based on that low bar, it would be hard to see the Brewers picking up a free agent of Winker's value for the $8M they saved.  That does not include getting Toro as well.  

Trying to see a comp for Winker out of the existing free agents and the best I could find is Gallo.  Could we pickup Gallo as a rebound candidate for a $8M 1year deal?  Best prediction I could find is from the Athletic: 1yr, $13M

[homer]

1 hour ago, Soupbone said:

Where does Toro play?

Where does Urias play?

Where does Turang play?

Toro can play all over the place, He will most likely be a super utility guy, IMO

[patrickgpe]

Spent a little time thinking about this trade and looking up more on Toro. Still not a fan of this move. This seems like a move the brewers would have made in the 90’s. Get 2 serviceable MLB players to try to remain competitive. Winkler is an upgrade over Cutch, and I’m excited to see what Turang does on the MLB roster. If he has a good rookie season and Winkler returns to his Reds form, it’s a good move, but those are 2 big IFS. 

[owbc]

1 hour ago, StearnsFTW said:

Just went over to the Ms board.

Man, do they hate these 2 guys ?

The M's fanbase is kind of weird right now, all they really care about is how their moves compare to whatever the Astros are doing and they have been triggered by some recent comments from Dipoto that they not planning to make any big FA signings this offseason. 

Winker had a frustrating year. He was playing through injuries in a pitching-friendly ballpark. He didn't mesh with the M's clubhouse for whatever reason. He's a prime candidate for a bounce back year. 

I think the Brewers could have easily traded Wong for Winker straight up but getting Toro as well adds another potential piece of upside with a few years of control. There's no downside to seeing if Toro can find his footing at the MLB level.

That's a pretty nice return for a guy who we had no plans to keep.